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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Changing lead platforms for the first time since 1998.

Pemalite said:
KBG29 said:

Not yet, I bought the Xbox One X back in January, and this weekend I added an XBO S to the bedroom. 

I don't have any surface device or Windows 10 purchase line-up light now, but I will be looking into them in the future.

I had the Xbox One X pre-ordered, so had it on release day.
One great feature though is that you can stream Xbox One games to a PC via the Xbox app if your PC is not high-end.

ResilientFighter said:

So much is wrong in these claims its not even worth making an argument... have fun over there with barely any exclusive games with real quality, enjoy the pseudo 4K thinking its on par with a $1000 computer and has more exclusive dominance than nintendo and sony

None of the consoles are doing "real" 4k 100% of the time, doesn't matter if it's Xbox, Playstation or Switch... So not really an argumentative point that falls in your favor.
If you want 4k or better... That has been on PC for the last 17 years.

Cerebralbore101 said:

PC has some great strategy titles for sure, but Switch and/or PS4 blow it out of the water in terms of games library.

No they don't. The PC has a game library that spans decades.
There are more games on Steam alone than there are games on the Playstation 1, 2, 3 and 4... Combined.
You know what? Add the PSP and Vita game libraries as well and I would still confidently say the PC has more games.

Cerebralbore101 said:

 This gen there's only 8 PC exclusives I'm really interested in, and that's if you count Civ 6 (coming to Switch), Cities Skylines (also coming to Switch), and Warhammer Total War (Obsolete now that Total War II is out.)

Fantastic. Good for you. There is none on Playstation or Xbox that interests me even in the slightest, couple on Switch I wouldn't mind playing, but won't lower myself to 720P.

But just because there are certain games that don't interest you, doesn't mean there aren't games or aren't good games that may interest others, we are delving into personal taste territory here which is pretty anecdotal.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Aside from Indies I don't have any digital games linked to those accounts. It's all physical. 

I don't buy DLC. They are not worth it. $20 more for maybe five to ten hours of extra content? No thanks. 

Edit: I know where you're going with this, and I agree to an extent. Yes, there is DRM on consoles, but the important thing is that consoles at least offer a DRM free physical version. GoG has a great library, but it is still missing about 80% of quality AAA multiplats. And as far as I know humble bundle just offers up a steam code, or some other DRM version. 

Physical is DRM.
You cannot take a game disc from the Playstation 4 and drop it into a PC that is running a similar *Nix derived OS, OpenGL derived API and a Jaguar+GCN hardware.
That is by itself DRM, you are being limited.
Rather... What needs to happen is for Emulation to take place to make such a thing a reality.

The only true DRM-free gaming is GOG.

Kerotan said:
Lastly xbox x released a year after the pro and a good bit more powerful. So it will be harder for ms to make a big jump to next gen if they want to keep the price at 400. Whereas Sony can easily make a big jump over the pro for 400. They hold all the aces.

We don't know any of that for sure.

thismeintiel said:

And given that the PS5 is using a Zen CPU and a Navi GPU, I doubt performance will be an issue.

We have zero clue what the final hardware is.
Many thought that the Xbox One X was going to be running with Ryzen because of various "hints" and "leaks" and "Information" from supposedly "credible" sources which turned out to be complete and utter furfies. (Those who knew hardware knew Ryzen wasn't going to happen.)

Random_Matt said:
So going to a platform that plays the same multiplatfom games and has zero exclusives? Ok. Also the UI is an ugly and convoluted mess, an opinion which is pretty much agreed upon within the gaming industry, it has slow install times and the X1X is highly crippled by the S version. Go for it.

Having exclusives only matters if you care about said exclusives.
There are gamers in the world who couldn't care about Spiderman, Horizon, Halo... But will play the latest Battlefield/Call of Duty/Fortnite/Overwatch 24/7 and nothing else.

As for the Xbox One X being crippled by the S console... Well. Yes and no.
Allot of older games that are unpatched look like ass on the Xbox One X, but newer releases tend to be a step up on the Xbox One X over all the other consoles.

S.Peelman said:

This is also why Switch literally doesn't have any of those features and judging by sales nobody in the real world gives a s**t.

Correct me if I am wrong... But the Switch appeals to a very particular demographic... There are more gamers on the Xbox One, Playstation 4, PC, Android, iOS and so on that do care about those features.

Ganoncrotch said:

If the system had a functionality of fully dual booting between X1 and Windows10 OS that would be a very tempting thing to get me to consider buying one, but that said, behind my couch already has a ps4/switch and gaming PC hooked to my projector so even if the X1 would open up to being a fully functional PC it still wouldn't fill a gap in my systems which doesn't already have a more powerful system in there doing it.

I prefer to have my consoles on the TV... And then use my PC on my QHD monitor. - Why? Because.

Everyone has different needs/wants/desires/tastes and thus want a different setup, so that is perfectly fine.
I would never be able to use a console like a PC though.

Zkuq said:
You're free to choose whatever you like the best, but if you think Microsoft is significantly better in the long run, you're most likely sorely mistaken.

There is no best. Every... And I mean EVERY, platform has it's strengths and weaknesses.
What we need to do as individual consumers is to weigh all the Pro's and Con's and make a purchasing decision that meets our individual criteria.

MrWayne said:

Or you do yourself an even bigger favor and buy a PC. A few facts:
almost unlimited backwards compatibility, biggest exclusiv library, best experience in multi platform titles, M+K and Controller, best multimedia station

It's not "almost unlimited backwards compatibility". - It is unlimited.
You can run any game released at any time on the latest and greatest PC. No exception.

Chazore said:

If you hadn't already picked up on it by now, he's very much against wanting to use a PC for nearly anything. He wants consoles to fully replace PC's and handle all their tasks and what not. He's used consoles to pay his bills and what not, while opting as much as possible to use them for daily computing tasks.

If he wants to do that... So be it.
But there is a reason why the PC remains the platform of choice for productivity tasks such as those... Because to put simply, it's faster and more convenient.

shikamaru317 said:

You're definitely right about PS4 OS, they have left it by the wayside. The latest numbered update, 6.0, only had stability improvements, no new features at all.

To be fair... Microsoft's bread and butter business is Operating Systems, so it's only natural they should have the edge in that aspect, it's what they are supposed to excel at.

AngryLittleAlchemist said:

If this means I do not have to see another one of your god awful "integration" posts on a Playstation thread, than I'm happy.

He is more than allowed to participate in those threads. - Hopefully he does, more perspectives is never a bad thing.

If no game represents the so called power, then you are a sucker and have been miss sold.



Around the Network
Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Yeah, that's blatantly false. You might as well try to say that the world is flat. Have you not walked into a store in the last thirty years?

Firmware updates for consoles only happen once in a blue moon. Meanwhile windows can't help but nag me at least twice everytime I get on my computer. 

More than half of the released PS4 games in 2017 + 2018 didn't have a retail release. Are you denying that?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/wiki/games

Over 1400 games were released on Switch so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_Switch_games

Only ~250 of them did have a retail release: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FNyvbbU64Pb9lheg28gC_5fMalIYJ0aD763T7M1QqF0/edit#gid=0

Are you denying that either?

And how often does a blue moon happen?

GPU driver updates on PCs aren't that more frequent... and they are optional and not mandatory to keep online functions alive.

Most other driver updates happen in the background.

95% of AAA games are released as physical versions for PS4/Switch. Nobody cares about the hordes of shovelware games that are dumped onto the eShop, or PSN. Meanwhile, only about 10% to 20% of AAA PC games make it to GoG. So yeah, you are technically correct, but still making statements intended to deceive by omission of critical information. 



Cerebralbore101 said:

95% of AAA games are released as physical versions for PS4/Switch. Nobody cares about the hordes of shovelware games that are dumped onto the eShop, or PSN. Meanwhile, only about 10% to 20% of AAA PC games make it to GoG. So yeah, you are technically correct, but still making statements intended to deceive by omission of critical information. 

Ah, the "game x doesn't count" argument for shifting goalposts... how predictable.



DonFerrari said:

Sorry man, but most people don't buy 5 year+ old games constantly and play them. We have seem much on how much gamers cared when PS3 lost B/C, when PS4 came without B/C and when X1 got B/C. So you can do all the list war you want using 80's games, that will still be irrelevant for most people.

I think he still has a point in regards to PC-gaming. Just look at the top 10 most played PC-games, quite a few of them are older than 5 years.
World of Warcraft(2004)
League of Legends(2009)
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive(2012)
Dota 2(2013)(playable since 2011)
PC-gamer have different consumer behavior than console gamer.



Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Yeah, that's blatantly false. You might as well try to say that the world is flat. Have you not walked into a store in the last thirty years?

Firmware updates for consoles only happen once in a blue moon. Meanwhile windows can't help but nag me at least twice everytime I get on my computer. 

More than half of the released PS4 games in 2017 + 2018 didn't have a retail release. Are you denying that?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/wiki/games

Over 1400 games were released on Switch so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_Switch_games

Only ~250 of them did have a retail release: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FNyvbbU64Pb9lheg28gC_5fMalIYJ0aD763T7M1QqF0/edit#gid=0

Are you denying that either?

And how often does a blue moon happen?

GPU driver updates on PCs aren't that more frequent... and they are optional and not mandatory to keep online functions alive.

Most other driver updates happen in the background.

Quite a few of those PS4 updates are optional, as well.



Around the Network
Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

95% of AAA games are released as physical versions for PS4/Switch. Nobody cares about the hordes of shovelware games that are dumped onto the eShop, or PSN. Meanwhile, only about 10% to 20% of AAA PC games make it to GoG. So yeah, you are technically correct, but still making statements intended to deceive by omission of critical information. 

Ah, the "game x doesn't count" argument for shifting goalposts... how predictable.

Shopkeeper: I have every fruit known to man! Come buy my wares!

Wiseguy: Lists a ton of fruits that are poisonous to humans. 

Shopkeeper: But why would I sell those? People don't want to eat inedible fruits. This is a market after all. 

Wiseguy: Ah, the "fruit x doesn't count" argument for shifting goalposts... how predictable.

I'm just gonna take a break from this thread for the rest of the day. I'm just arguing with the same three users that I've always disagreed with anyway. 



Cerebralbore101 said:
Pemalite said:

Physical is DRM.
You cannot take a game disc from the Playstation 4 and drop it into a PC that is running a similar *Nix derived OS, OpenGL derived API and a Jaguar+GCN hardware.
That is by itself DRM, you are being limited.
Rather... What needs to happen is for Emulation to take place to make such a thing a reality.

The only true DRM-free gaming is GOG.

See my response to Chazore. Not going to bother posting it here again, but I put 5 different sources that disagree with your definition of DRM. 

Your argument not only relies on a false definition of DRM, but it leads to absurdities like this...

"I can't play my cassette tape in a CD player, therefore cassette tapes are DRM!"

His definition of DRM is a little bit strange but his "Physical is DRM" line is kinda true.
DRM free games on PC don't require a CD/DVD to play them after the installation. Console games aren't DRM free in that sense.



Cerebralbore101 said:
Conina said:

Ah, the "game x doesn't count" argument for shifting goalposts... how predictable.

Shopkeeper: I have every fruit known to man! Come buy my wares!

Wiseguy: Lists a ton of fruits that are poisonous to humans. 

Shopkeeper: But why would I sell those? People don't want to eat inedible fruits. This is a market after all. 

Wiseguy: Ah, the "fruit x doesn't count" argument for shifting goalposts... how predictable.

I'm just gonna take a break from this thread for the rest of the day. I'm just arguing with the same three users that I've always disagreed with anyway. 

Phase 2: the straw man argument.



Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Shopkeeper: I have every fruit known to man! Come buy my wares!

Wiseguy: Lists a ton of fruits that are poisonous to humans. 

Shopkeeper: But why would I sell those? People don't want to eat inedible fruits. This is a market after all. 

Wiseguy: Ah, the "fruit x doesn't count" argument for shifting goalposts... how predictable.

I'm just gonna take a break from this thread for the rest of the day. I'm just arguing with the same three users that I've always disagreed with anyway. 

Phase 2: the straw man argument.

Wasn't that his original point?
"Consoles have DRM, but there is still an option for a physical DRM-free version with almost all console games, PC lacks this option for most of its library."

There are obviously a lot of digital only games on consoles, but these games probably do not even make up 20% of all games sold. If you look at it in this way, he's right.

He's also right with the second part, many games have a physical version on console but not for PC and those who have a physical PC version are almost always not DRM free because they are bound to an steam/uplay/bnet account.



LudicrousSpeed said:
Chazore said:

But that's the thing, PC gaming doesn't do gens like a console does, thus the library goes on and on and doesn't really stop, while each console gen shows a library wrapping up when a new console gen hits the block. When you compare a current gen console vs a PC's library that hasn't stopped since the 80's, then of course the PC's library is going to appear the largest.

An X1 player is fine to add their BC games to their roster because they have been made available for playing on that system. I don't really see the need to tie down PC to console's generational rule though as it doesn't make any sense since both platforms are different in how they operate.

What Pem said is true though, physical games are DRM, since you cannot take a PS4 game and load it onto a PC, Switch and X1. The consoles themselves are the DRM, as well as their built in storefronts. You also have games that contain built in stores to buy MT's or content like UPlay does with Uplay points, and you cannot spend those Uplay points anywhere else but on UPlay and Ubisoft owned games. 

Windows itself isn't a form of actual malicious spyware. You have agreements that you can either agree or disagree with when it comes to Windows 10, just like Windows 7 had when it launched all those years ago. You have these same kind of agreements for multiple games and what not, and have done for years. IF data collection is a worrisome thing that everyone should objectively worry about, then look no further with how all the big publishers collect gamer data on what they'#ve played, how long they've played it for and what activities they've taken part in within each game. 

I can do 4k 30fps fine on my build, but I do not see the point in going for 4k when the games that come out do not sport higher resolution textures/shadows, which is why I aim for 2k, which is a sharper res that 1080p, while also allowing myself to choose higher settings and going above 60fps for the games I play. THe previous points mentioned put 1440p 3 to 1 for 4k.

Even then, the current gen systems have had to resort to checkerboard 4k, rather than pulling a fat full native 4k and trying to aim for 60fps, instead they rely on a fake 4k while having to try keeping games at 30fps and turning down settings. I'd rather have the middle ground where I get a halfway good sharper image, while also having good high end settings and maintaining or going above 60fps, rather than going for just one option and doing away with settings/performance. 

The same people telling you old games don’t count on PC would be happily including old Playstation games if PS4 had BC. 

When you build a new gaming PC one of the best parts is firing it up and installing loads of classics on it. Not possible on some consoles, of course they’d disallow it.

Nope, there are PS1 classics, PS2 remakes and PS3 remasters on PS4. I bought and platined some of them on original platform and on PS4, but those are a handfull of games.

PS3 had BC last gen until Sony saw that the extra cost didn't brought extra revenue and cut it out. So that pretty much show that listing BC games to pad list war is laughable. You may love some or even all of the previous gen games, but a very very very small number of people would buy new consoles for the intent of playing old games they already had console to play it on.

I assembled my PC about a month ago, haven't installed a single game on it, and it certainly can handle classic games.

Cerebralbore101 said:
Pemalite said:

No they don't. The PC has a game library that spans decades.
There are more games on Steam alone than there are games on the Playstation 1, 2, 3 and 4... Combined.
You know what? Add the PSP and Vita game libraries as well and I would still confidently say the PC has more games.

"Wii has a games library that spans decades, therefore Wii has a better library than 360 or PS3" - Somebody using the same faulty argument as you ten years ago. 

Fantastic. Good for you. There is none on Playstation or Xbox that interests me even in the slightest, couple on Switch I wouldn't mind playing, but won't lower myself to 720P.

But just because there are certain games that don't interest you, doesn't mean there aren't games or aren't good games that may interest others, we are delving into personal taste territory here which is pretty anecdotal.

Critics and fans alike overwhelmingly disagree with you. I realize this is all subjective, but you are in the extreme minority here. Try expanding your horizons a bit.

Physical is DRM.
You cannot take a game disc from the Playstation 4 and drop it into a PC that is running a similar *Nix derived OS, OpenGL derived API and a Jaguar+GCN hardware.
That is by itself DRM, you are being limited.
Rather... What needs to happen is for Emulation to take place to make such a thing a reality.

The only true DRM-free gaming is GOG.

See my response to Chazore. Not going to bother posting it here again, but I put 5 different sources that disagree with your definition of DRM. 

Your argument not only relies on a false definition of DRM, but it leads to absurdities like this...

"I can't play my cassette tape in a CD player, therefore cassette tapes are DRM!"

My responses in bold. Please stop with the multiple quotes on top of quotes on top of quotes. Just quote me once, and then respond to it all.  It makes it very difficult to even respond to you. 

You can't read a book in Japanese only knowing english, DRM.

10 people can't read the same book at the same time, DRM.

Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Yeah, that's blatantly false. You might as well try to say that the world is flat. Have you not walked into a store in the last thirty years?

Firmware updates for consoles only happen once in a blue moon. Meanwhile windows can't help but nag me at least twice everytime I get on my computer. 

More than half of the released PS4 games in 2017 + 2018 didn't have a retail release. Are you denying that?

https://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/wiki/games

Over 1400 games were released on Switch so far: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_Switch_games

Only ~250 of them did have a retail release: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FNyvbbU64Pb9lheg28gC_5fMalIYJ0aD763T7M1QqF0/edit#gid=0

Are you denying that either?

And how often does a blue moon happen?

GPU driver updates on PCs aren't that more frequent... and they are optional and not mandatory to keep online functions alive.

Most other driver updates happen in the background.

That is less than once a month, I can certainly keep up with this much easier than my windows that decides to do auto update and restart even when that option haven't been accepted. Anyway PS4 update is very fast, but certainly I wouldn't have any problem keeping up the original one or even making it even bare.

Guess how many of digital only games I buy? I can with reasonable confidence say that more than 90% of my playing time is done on AA or AAA retail game, and even if I'm missing some great A or Indie games digital only I wouldn't even have the free time to play them.

MrWayne said:
DonFerrari said:

Sorry man, but most people don't buy 5 year+ old games constantly and play them. We have seem much on how much gamers cared when PS3 lost B/C, when PS4 came without B/C and when X1 got B/C. So you can do all the list war you want using 80's games, that will still be irrelevant for most people.

I think he still has a point in regards to PC-gaming. Just look at the top 10 most played PC-games, quite a few of them are older than 5 years.
World of Warcraft(2004)
League of Legends(2009)
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive(2012)
Dota 2(2013)(playable since 2011)
PC-gamer have different consumer behavior than console gamer.

And you can still play your games on the original console, I keep my consoles since NES gen, but rarely I play them. They are certainly classics and good to play from time to time, but on the broader view they are neglible on making listing war.

PC gaming is the most curious thing ever, I know to many people that put more than 1k USD in a rig to play DoTA. For me that is asinine use of money but they want some over 200fps even if the graphics will keep being terrible.

MrWayne said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

His definition of DRM is a little bit strange but his "Physical is DRM" line is kinda true.
DRM free games on PC don't require a CD/DVD to play them after the installation. Console games aren't DRM free in that sense.

Nope it isn't kinda true. Digital Rights Management of the physical media is the part that can prevent you from pirating it, not the part that prevent you from using on a different console. Unless you want to call DRM the fact a cobol program can't run in access as is or that someone that reads english only can't read a document in swedish.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."