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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Changing lead platforms for the first time since 1998.

DonFerrari said:


MrWayne said:

I think he still has a point in regards to PC-gaming. Just look at the top 10 most played PC-games, quite a few of them are older than 5 years.
World of Warcraft(2004)
League of Legends(2009)
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive(2012)
Dota 2(2013)(playable since 2011)
PC-gamer have different consumer behavior than console gamer.

And you can still play your games on the original console, I keep my consoles since NES gen, but rarely I play them. They are certainly classics and good to play from time to time, but on the broader view they are neglible on making listing war.

PC gaming is the most curious thing ever, I know to many people that put more than 1k USD in a rig to play DoTA. For me that is asinine use of money but they want some over 200fps even if the graphics will keep being terrible.

But that's my point, those PC-games aren't negligible, they are as important for PC-gaming as new releases like GoW, Spider Man or RDR2 are for Playstation.

DonFerrari said:

MrWayne said:

His definition of DRM is a little bit strange but his "Physical is DRM" line is kinda true.
DRM free games on PC don't require a CD/DVD to play them after the installation. Console games aren't DRM free in that sense.

Nope it isn't kinda true. Digital Rights Management of the physical media is the part that can prevent you from pirating it, not the part that prevent you from using on a different console. Unless you want to call DRM the fact a cobol program can't run in access as is or that someone that reads english only can't read a document in swedish.

You have to look at it from the PC gamers perspective.
If a game needs the DVD in the drive to run, it prevents you from running the game on 10 pc's at the same time. that's clearly DRM because it means you and your friends have to buy more then more copy of the game..

This was obviously never a thing in the console space because games were not installed on consoles.

Last edited by MrWayne - on 17 September 2018

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DonFerrari said:

Well I find a very odd reasoning since you certainly could have your PC as a central "server" to play in the 3 areas, but sure each one have their own needs. But if you don't like any exclusives then that is your option =]

I used to have my home setup in such a way.
But as life got more demanding, the less time I had to maintain it, so I reached a point in my life where I needed to dumb things down.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Pem and I have had that argument before. He wants to count every single PC game made since 1980, and then try to stack it up against a single console generation's library.

I can compare every Playstation console, be it fixed or handheld to the PC's game library and the PC will still have more games.

Cerebralbore101 said:

That's like an XB1 fanboy trying to argue that since XB1 is backwards compatible you have to count every XBO, 360, and XB1 game that isn't playable on PS4, when comparing libraries of the XB1 and PS4.

Every PC game is playable on the PC.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Consoles have DRM, but there is still an option to have a physical DRM free version with almost all console games.

The Physical version is not DRM free.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Yeah I can see 1440p from a 1K build. But 4k? Not happening.

Older games should do 4k just fine.
The great thing about PC though is that when you buy/upgrade your PC... You can run all your older games at higher resolutions and settings.

thismeintiel said:
You obviously have no idea what DRM means if you think physical is DRM. If I can take my disc over to a friend's house and just stick it in his PS1/2/3/4 and it plays, there is no DRM. Using that same argument, GOG is DRM because they don't make the games runnable on the home consoles. It's just a silly argument. They are both bound by the HW/OS they were developed for, not by a code restricting your use of the game.

I can stick my Steam games on an external HDD, plug it into a friends PC and start playing, no different from your physical games.

And the reason why GOG games isn't DRM... Isn't because it won't run on a Playstation console... It's because Sony wouldn't allow it to run, that's the ultimate difference here.
The console itself is also DRM.

thismeintiel said:
And I was one who was pretty damn sure they weren't going with Zen. Of course, we actually have more clues about what Sony is doing, not just that AMD was pushing Ryzen and the X at the same booth. One of Sony's programmers was working to improve Zen compatibility with PS's development environment. I doubt that was for shits and giggles. And we have heard rumors from within AMD about them focusing on Navi for Sony causing tensions with some that worked on Vega. That last could turn out wrong, but I don't think it will.

Grain of salt is needed for the absolute lot of it.

LudicrousSpeed said:

The same people telling you old games don’t count on PC would be happily including old Playstation games if PS4 had BC. 

Except there are more games on PC than there are on the PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4, PSP, Vita... Combined. So... It wouldn't make a difference.

Cerebralbore101 said:

I don't care about your graphics preferences. So long as you understand that a $1000 PC will not run current gen games at 4K. Whatever you are playing at 4K, must be something that isn't graphically intensive at all, if your 1K rig can do it. 

A $1000 rig would be a good 1440P candidate... And run games with higher visual settings than the Xbox One X.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Wii has a games library that spans decades, therefore Wii has a better library than 360 or PS3" - Somebody using the same faulty argument as you ten years ago.

The Wii can't play all those Nintendo console released games over that entire time period.

Cerebralbore101 said:

Critics and fans alike overwhelmingly disagree with you. I realize this is all subjective, but you are in the extreme minority here. Try expanding your horizons a bit.

Your argument is ultimately irrelevant as I already stated that my tastes will differ from others.

Cerebralbore101 said:

"I can't play my cassette tape in a CD player, therefore cassette tapes are DRM!"

That is a fundamental change in technology. It's a silly comparison.
The Playstation 4 is using x86, Graphics Core Next, *Nix derived OS, OpenGL and so on. - If it wasn't for DRM, it would be perfectly playable on a PC of similar build, natively.

MrWayne said:

You have to look at it from the PC gamers perspective.
If a game needs the DVD in the drive to run, it prevents you from running the game on 10 pc's at the same time. that's clearly DRM because it means you and your friends have to buy more then more copy of the game..

This was obviously never a thing in the console space because games were not installed on consoles.

Most Physical PC games tend to have a CD Key, which you then activate on Steam/Origin/uPlay/Battle.net and can download the game rather than use the optical disk if you lack a disk drive.
You can also "share" your game library on PC as well.

But the PC most certainly has DRM, it just has DRM-free options... Consoles are very much "get what you see".



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
MrWayne said:

You have to look at it from the PC gamers perspective.
If a game needs the DVD in the drive to run, it prevents you from running the game on 10 pc's at the same time. that's clearly DRM because it means you and your friends have to buy more then more copy of the game..

This was obviously never a thing in the console space because games were not installed on consoles.

Most Physical PC games tend to have a CD Key, which you then activate on Steam/Origin/uPlay/Battle.net and can download the game rather than use the optical disk if you lack a disk drive.
You can also "share" your game library on PC as well.

But the PC most certainly has DRM, it just has DRM-free options... Consoles are very much "get what you see".

I was talking about the times before Steam. If you wanted to play AoE2 on a LAN party you only needed one copy.
Something like that isn't possible with the share function on steam, it's limited to one player at once.

Also you have to admit that the DRM on physical console games isn't as bad as on steam games. the DRM doesn't make it a pain in the ass to resell your games.



I started playing Conker and RE4 on my Xbox One while I waited for Spiderman and Tomb Raider. I was too slow and when the latter two games released (which I'd pre-ordered), I was too engrossed in the former two. It wasn't until I finished the campaigns that I could focus on the two new releases. Even now, I'm excited about jumping into Resident Evil 5. RE4 and 5 are rereleases on current gen hardware but they're still older games. I spend a lot of time playing games from years ago.



Twitter: @d21lewis

DonFerrari said:

PS3 had BC last gen until Sony saw that the extra cost didn't brought extra revenue and cut it out. So that pretty much show that listing BC games to pad list war is laughable. You may love some or even all of the previous gen games, but a very very very small number of people would buy new consoles for the intent of playing old games they already had console to play it on.


 

Not to take any sides, but the PS3 never really fully got rid of back compat. Every PS3 (even the slims) can play all PS1 disks.  And to make up for PS2 BC removed they released several game collections like ratchet and god of war.

Even during late last gen Playstation/Sony still valued their old games greatly.



Bet with Intrinsic:

The Switch will outsell 3DS (based on VGchartz numbers), according to me, while Intrinsic thinks the opposite will hold true. One month avatar control for the loser's avatar.

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Pemalite said:
thismeintiel said:
You obviously have no idea what DRM means if you think physical is DRM. If I can take my disc over to a friend's house and just stick it in his PS1/2/3/4 and it plays, there is no DRM. Using that same argument, GOG is DRM because they don't make the games runnable on the home consoles. It's just a silly argument. They are both bound by the HW/OS they were developed for, not by a code restricting your use of the game.

I can stick my Steam games on an external HDD, plug it into a friends PC and start playing, no different from your physical games.

And the reason why GOG games isn't DRM... Isn't because it won't run on a Playstation console... It's because Sony wouldn't allow it to run, that's the ultimate difference here.
The console itself is also DRM.

LOL, oh boy.  It has nothing to do with what Sony will let them do or not do, it's because it was made for Windows/PC.  It would require porting.  Or for Sony to create, or allow other devs to create, a DOS/Windows emulator for the PS4.  Which I'm sure MS would have something to say about that.  Again, DRM by your poor definition of it.  Really the same goes for modern PCs.  It's not like you can just buy those old discs off Ebay, stick them in any PC, and they run.  Nope, you have to run them with a DOS emulator, which is why those games you buy from GOG/Steam even work.  Just admit it, you used a ridiculous definition of DRM just to push the whole "PC master race."

thismeintiel said:
And I was one who was pretty damn sure they weren't going with Zen. Of course, we actually have more clues about what Sony is doing, not just that AMD was pushing Ryzen and the X at the same booth. One of Sony's programmers was working to improve Zen compatibility with PS's development environment. I doubt that was for shits and giggles. And we have heard rumors from within AMD about them focusing on Navi for Sony causing tensions with some that worked on Vega. That last could turn out wrong, but I don't think it will.

Grain of salt is needed for the absolute lot of it.

Mhmm, sure...



KBG29 said:

PlayStation has finally drove me away. 

For the last 1 1/2 they have completely abandoned PS4. They have stopped supporting any of their services (outside of PlayStation Vue), PSN is down more and more every month, and the OS is getting worse and worse. What the hell are we paying for with PS+?

Microsoft on the other hand has completely revamped the XBO this year. The OS has made massive strides, and is now well ahead of the PS4 OS. They upgraded Edge on XBO, and it now functions almost 1 to 1 with PC (just needs Mouse Support). With that upgrade they brought the ability to download Files, Photos, Music, Videos, Zips, Rars, etc., and they are all accessable right on XBO via the File Explorer and through multiple apps on the Xbox Store.

Their Video store offers 4K HDR content, and just joined Video Anywhere. They are offering Cross Play, which I could care less about, but at least they are not hunkering down in their cave. XBO is gainging more productivity and quality of life apps and features every week. 

Then we have B/C, Xbox Play Anywhere, and Game Pass. Game Pass, for $10 a month gives access to all 1st party games with new releases available on day one. It is absolutely ridiculous value. 

PlayStation has been my main Computing and Entertainment device since 1998. I have bought played, watched, learned, ran business, and more through PlayStation. I have always bought all of my media, and 3rd party games through Sony, even when things were rough, because Sony always delivered new features, innovation, and continual improvement of the products I purchased. That has changed in the last few years. My Bravia's have incradible Picture Quality, but the OS is the worst I have ever used. PS Vita was dropped, and Xperia's are absolute garbage. Now PlayStation and PlayStation Services are going to trash.

For the first time in 20 years, I am changing my main platform. Microsoft has won me over after 17 years of hard work. They have become open, started listening to consumers, and partners. They are building a Platform, that can continually grow, and reach across the entire spectrum of electronics. They have a vision, and they have been open to the public with where they want to go. This is the company that I want to support. So starting this month my $450 a month entertainment budget is moving to Microsoft.

Perhapps Sony can win me back with PS5, but I am not betting on it. I have watched them piss away potential for to long. At this point I am see them closing themselves off, and killing PlayStation, just like they have every other successful product they have ever made. They will refuse to expand PlayStation's  feature set to offer standard functionallity in todays devices, and people will slowly but surely abandon ship.

Yes, the AAA single player games are great, but the rest is terrible. It will catch up to them

Good luck finding must have exclusives. Then again if you missed Halo 1-Reach, those are classics and  so is the original Gears of War Trilogy. Forza is top notch if you are into racing. But both Halo and Gears have lost their luster since their OG devs left. Sony is king this gen and judging by the PS5 hype Microsoft has a big hole to dig themselves out off.



LudicrousSpeed said:
lol why would Sony stop making exclusives just because of backwards compatibility.

I didnt say that. But my point is they chosen to focus on awesome exclusives. Microsoft however haven't and one of their biggest focuses has been bc. The consumers are voting with their feet and choosing playstation. 



thismeintiel said:
LOL, oh boy.  It has nothing to do with what Sony will let them do or not do, it's because it was made for Windows/PC.  It would require porting. 

It's not just porting. - The hardware and software stacks are so similar to what the PC ecosystems have it's a shit excuse anyway.

The hardware and software stacks are so far locked down... That it deters things like even Homebrew.

thismeintiel said:
Or for Sony to create, or allow other devs to create, a DOS/Windows emulator for the PS4. 

Sony's Playstation 4 is using FreeBSD as the OS base. - You cannot sideload FreeBSD games and software on the Playstation 4.
That is DRM. Face the facts already.

thismeintiel said:
Again, DRM by your poor definition of it.  Really the same goes for modern PCs.

And I have said nothing to the contrary.

thismeintiel said:
It's not like you can just buy those old discs off Ebay, stick them in any PC, and they run.  Nope, you have to run them with a DOS emulator, which is why those games you buy from GOG/Steam even work. 

False.
You do not need to use emulation. I can delve farther into this topic if you want and educate you on the matter if you are genuinely interested.

thismeintiel said:
Just admit it, you used a ridiculous definition of DRM just to push the whole "PC master race."

The PC is the Master Race.




--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Kerotan said:
LudicrousSpeed said:
lol why would Sony stop making exclusives just because of backwards compatibility.

I didnt say that. But my point is they chosen to focus on awesome exclusives. Microsoft however haven't and one of their biggest focuses has been bc. The consumers are voting with their feet and choosing playstation. 

You said if instead of exclusives they gave you BC. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. They can do both. What MS has done or is doing is irrelevant to the discussion.