If the President is the only thing you care about in politics then I apologize for reading into that wrong. No, I was never interested in him before but now we both watch the Trump show aka the news. You romanticize his idiocy and I laugh at how angry he makes people. I didn't vote for Trump in the primary either, I voted for Rand Paul. Between him and Clinton was a no brainer and I think it turned out alright so far.

I don't support everything Trump does. Everyone must think he's a complete moron or be a complete moron for not thinking he is, right? We don't get it or we don't understand. There must be something wrong with me because I can't see him for what he is, a secret russian moron. That's fine but politics is more than just the president my dude. There are many people that have an affect on your life in our government.

BREAKING: Emperor Palpatine claims he misspoke while issuing Order 66: "In a key sentence in my remarks, I said 'Wipe them out. All of them. ... The sentence should've been: 'DON'T wipe them out.'"

There you go again doing what you always do, deflect.  Never said the president office is the only political office  I vote for but please continue to build that nice straw defense. SIf you want we can share voting records and I can show you I vote all the d I'll win to my city mayor if that helps you sleep at night.  Are we not in a thread talking about the President so I keep it on point.  If you want to discuss other political positions feel free to open another thread.

So your entertainment is an idiot making policies that effect your life.  I guess everyone has their kicks.  I also find it funny thelengths  people will go through to support Trump when he make idiotic mistakes.  I am having a decent chuckle in this thread.

Interesting enough I never thought Trump was compromised by Russia.  I only thought of him as another con man who found himself in position of power.  After that display on Monday, I started to believe maybe there is some meat there.

Yeah he's aware of the Mueller indictments on Russian nationals that will never show up in Court and get dragged into limbo. That's not evidence, that's a court summons. Trump apparently hasn't seen the findings if he is saying he wants to see the server. I haven't seen any evidence that has Putin giving the order himself like Mach suggests(though i don't doubt it). Regardless, it's still a dumb thing to say at a joint press conference when everyone has their gun out. The main point is that it's not impeachable or treason, let alone obviously so lol. Based on what exactly? "The left and right say so" isn't proof of anything. Saying stupid things and having dumb mannerisms aren't an impeachable offense.

They are still denying congress the information and findings. They are dragging out info subpoenas. Congress still doesn't even have the evidence that started the investigation. Mueller is same guy that has spent hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars on the most thorough investigation in our history probably, searching every nook and cranny chasing the dragon. No budget limit, No boundaries, it's a joke of our justice system. Police state tactics. Why doesn't Trump trust his intelligence? For many more obvious reasons. Some nobody with zero authority has become the most powerful man in the country and he's untouchable. People act like Mueller is more powerful than the President and Congress and it's laughable These Federal judges that keep blocking Trump have absolutely no right to infringe of the authority of the President. They are nothing, a congress creation. So no, his distaste for our Intelligence community and the unconstitutional protests aren't surprising.

The hacking of the DNC and releasing their shit on Wikileaks was very telling sure. If you consider people knowing the truth as "election tampering" then that's pretty fucked up and shows the mentality of the DNC voters. How dare you show the voters what these assholes actually think behind the teleprompter.  Buying Ads isn't illegal, sending emails and trashing a candidate aren't illegal. Hacking is illegal sure, and I have no doubt Russia does it everyday. How is that an impeachable offense to Trump though? He hasn't been tied to it even it they did in fact hack the DNC. The evidence should be released to the public if they have it.

He walked back what he said because it was a stupid thing to say. The pockets he's beefing with do not represent the agency as a whole. I actually like the FBI and you can see how much shit I can talk about them. It's not complicated and I already said that. I just explained why he said it in the first place to explain why the puppet master thing was bullshit.

6. How is me telling him his statement is wrong irrelevant? It's not treason, it's fact. Trump could have said fuck our intelligence agencies, that's not treason. He is their boss... Our intelligence agencies have no authority over our President, he does not answer to them. He could disband them if he wanted too, it's well within his authority. It's just not the best thing to do politically or rationally lol. How is outright denying your intelligence briefing(which he didn't do) treason or impeachable? That's some stupid shit to say, left or right.
 
"I feel like you are kind of going out of your way to interpret his comments in the most disagreeable way possible in order to deliver retorts to points that weren't actually made."
Everything I have said has been in response to the impeachment is obvious statement. That first paragraph was trying to justify impeachment and i called it ridiculous. I didn't deliberately misinterpret what he said and I have no reason to do so. I also haven't changed my stance. That press conference was bad publicity, nothing more.

"You seem like a smart enough guy but also just super-defensive, but that's just my opinion dude, take it on-board or don't, it's totally up to you."
Super defensive how? By explaining why I think the way I do? My language might make my thoughts more aggressive then i'm trying to be. That's why i add lol a lot to let people know i'm not attacking but just making a point in jest.

"I can understand arguing for something that you believe in on any given issue but I am kind of perplexed at the amount defence I see for Trump personally. He seems to have almost no redeeming features and if I ever have a kid, he'd be the polar opposite of what I'd want him or her to turn out like... Would you?"
You wanted to break it down, not me lol. He and you messaged me and I responded. I'm just having a conversation dude. I haven't been disrespectful to anyone personally on here, I defend my views though sure.

"Again, I can understand defending something that you genuinely believe in, whether it be a party, a policy or a person, but surely Trump isn't deserving of any of your energy?"
I don't believe in parties. I do defend policies I believe in. I don't have much faith in politicians. Trump is comedy to me, it's not stressful and I like following the news and politics. Discussing it with you guys takes no energy at all. If somebody says something and I think it's wrong i will say so. People do the same to me like Mach did. I have no issue.

“There you go again doing what you always do, deflect.”

LOL! I’m not the king of the deflection, that’s you. I’m the king of dismissal, remember? Deflection would be me discussing the substance of your post with your lawyer from Scotland while you focus on your hatred of Trump (or lack thereof).

“Never said the president office is the only political office  I vote for but please continue to build that nice straw defense.”

I didn’t say it was only thing you vote for, I just said it seems like it’s the only thing you care about. I don’t need a straw defense for your feelings about Trump. It’s just an observation dude, if I’m wrong I’m wrong. I don’t know you, I just know what you type and what you focus on.

“SIf you want we can share voting records and I can show you I vote all the d I'll win to my city mayor if that helps you sleep at night.”

I just said I don’t know what you stand for. I don’t really care who or what you vote for I’m just explaining why I think you “dislike him very strongly” because that’s the only thing you responded to. You hating him or not has no affect on me. 

“Are we not in a thread talking about the President so I keep it on point.  If you want to discuss other political positions feel free to open another thread.”

We have discussed many political positions in our many discussions and you were always brought back to destroying Trump. We have talked about everything from the economy to healthcare and you have never shown any real “republican” position. Neither does the Republican Party though and I guess that makes sense if you like Kasich. If the only reason you are so critical is because you were staying on topic then I read it wrong. You don’t hate trump because he is an idiot that has an affect on your life. I apologize again. 

“So your entertainment is an idiot making policies that effect your life.  I guess everyone has their kicks.”

I don’t think he’s an idiot and I like the policies for the most part. He says some dumb shit but most of the time it’s on purpose. My entertainment is how angry he makes people on purpose. Especially the media. He’s not a traditional president, sure. Definitely not a traditional republican that rolls over and takes the leftist ass chewing like Bush did. He fights back and yes it’s entertaining. 

“I also find it funny thelengths  people will go through to support Trump when he make idiotic mistakes.  I am having a decent chuckle in this thread.”

I find it funny the lengths people will go to try to destroy him and his family. Most of your complaints are something stupid he said like he doesn’t know the difference between Great Britain and the UK or some other stupid word fumble. I just said your impeachment claim is ridiculous. 

“Interesting enough I never thought Trump was compromised by Russia.  I only thought of him as another con man who found himself in position of power.  After that display on Monday, I started to believe maybe there is some meat there.”

I still don’t. I think that’s retarded lol. 

"I'll bow to your more extensive knowledge of all the legal ins & outs."

I don't have much knowledge on any Scotland law lol. I'm just trying to explain to you why the claim is ridiculous.

"My original point was that your summary of Machiavellian's paragraph was inaccurate and as both of us have now agreed, every word of the paragraph absolutely wasn't ridiculous. It states many truths although I understand you disagree with it's base premise. It's this type of reliance on exaggeration and hyperbole that causes debates  to get out of hand and it smacks more of wanting to win, than engaging in an open and honest discussion, where, god forbid, somebody may change their position."
Not every word. His truths didn't change the fact that it's not treason, impeachable or obviously so. What high crimes has Trump commited? What crimes in general has he commited as president? There is no evidence of anything. Saying that is hyperbole so I responded with exaggerations sure. I try to be humorous sometimes and I guess I can see how it comes off wrong in text. That's just the way I talk though I mean no offense. I don't want to win or change anyone's position, i'm just an observer and commenting like everyone else.

"In various posts you also express your amusement at the way Trump riles up the democrats, but I think revelling in other's distress is never healthy and attitudes like this will just contribute to the ever-widening chasm we're seeing in American society."
It's funny because likely nobody ever told them they were wrong before in their entire life. That's the American education system. They are being shielded from basic world views and humor. No sense of true tyranny or history has softened their world view. They think it's worse than it really is because they don't know any better. Some are just insane, no rationality whatsoever. The trump satire has been on point for the most part though. When it's funny, it's funny. The way people get so angry though.. It's like watching somebody meltdown for no real reason.

Some areas are really that bad in America but it's not because of systemic racism or our constitution. It's because of stupid state policy. A healthy state economy and the right people can do good things. States are all varied in their economic endeavors. There are many factors involved and it cant be boiled down into one token cause like they try to do. A hashtag lol. They rile people up for votes the same way Trump does, they lie and slander more than Trump does . Being a free society is rough business. It's easy to just let your government take over and take care of all of your needs, it's also the fastest way to real oppression going by history.

"Whilst I don't agree with some of Trump's policies I just can't understand the unflinching backing he receives personally from huge swathes of your country. You say he isn't an idiot but I think, you, me,  & half of this forum wouldn't have made the blunder he did at the summit, and that was just one of many. To me though, even worse than that was the way he executed his u-turn - he didn't even try to make it appear credible! He knows that what he is saying is going out to his country and the world and he doesn't even try... He may as well have pulled a Ron Burgundy and just gave it the full "fuck you America"."
Most American's couldn't less about any of this, they are not oppressed. People aren't piling in here  because we kidnap their kids and rape the citizenry. The left is just going further left and it's clashing with our system because it was built against it. They see it as oppression, I see it as protection. These basic fundamental views are what is separating people. Do you believe in the federalist constitutional system? Do you want a progressive system that they can change on a whim based on their feelings at the time? Or law that is set in stone and is very difficult to change? These are serious things to be divided about, Trump probably won for the sole reason of picking Supreme Court justices. That's a big deal especially when Americans are so fundamentally at odds.

"I mean, I'm not a fan of Theresa May by any stretch, she's a total charisma-vacuum. But at least I know when she's giving an interview or meeting another world leader that I'm not going to have to cringe every other sentence..."
I don't care about the optics as much as I care about results. The only beefs I have with Trump have nothing to do with optics, presentation or charisma. I just think it's funny. That entire summit was a dumb idea, what did that achieve? Why even have a summit, is Putin going to denuclearize like NK? I care about things like the tariffs, these wordplay games don't matter much to me.

"With Trump everything is 'the best', 'the biggest', 'the most' anything has ever been becaause he's involved. You may say that's just his trade-mark charm, but I personally think he doesn't have a clue whether what he's saying is true or not as he has no knowledge of his own country's history or politics, and what's worse he doesn't care to know... He's just such an odd man to cheer-lead for..."
He exaggerates sure. He's a long time public figure and entertainer so yeah that's in there. I'm not saying he's a genius but I don't think he's as dumb as you think he is and I don't think he's done anything wrong. I praise good policy and respect the office. That's not cheer-leading that's just being decent lol.

"I keep hearing that part of his appeal is that he isn't a career politician, he's an outsider, and as such can make things happen - but for this to happen he actually has to have a basic understanding of the political landscape and how it works."
He does, he has made shit happen. He's trying to get bills from congress the right way. He's slashing regulations not creating them. He knows how it works better than everyone apparently. All of the polls and analysts were wrong about the 2016 election, what do they know about the political landscape? We lost because of Russians.

"It's like putting an NFL player in the NBA, but without him knowing the rules - then watching on in horror as he tackles 3 players then punts the basketball into the crowd. You're not going to win the game that way - you're just going to make a fucking mockery of it..."
Nah lol. This beef between the allies is all show. Do you really believe that the US wouldn't defend or help a NATO country? We are going to go to war with Canada lol. It's all bullshit, he's flipping deals and trying to get them to pay more of their own shit. I don't agree with tariffs but the US is broke. Record revenues wasted by not just our leaders but world leaders. Our system needed to be shaken up and brought back to basics, that's my honest opinion. I don't assume NFL athletes are dumb gorillas lol. They might do great?

"I've kind of veered off my own point here so I'll wrap it up. Again, you seem like a switched on guy who's done his homework. It just makes it all the more bemusing to see you support such an overt narcissist & pathological liar. He truly is stranger than fiction, and I don't think we'll see a President even half as bizarre in our life-times..."
It would be nice to have some solid policy without the new york city bravado but it is what it is. They are all like donald trump, loud and obnoxious. "AYYY GO FUCK YA MUTHA!". Sadly, its needed for what we are dealing with. People have to start fighting back if they want to save the system because it's going in another direction and it's starting to look like they dont care if it's done legally. Starting to shoot at congressmen and harass them while they are out in stores or eating. Donald Trump did nothing to deserve that let alone the people who just associated with him and did absolutely nothing. They aren't freedom fighters they are fascists lol.

'Would it make you happy if I stated that there are a few things I agree that Trump stands for.  I actually have no problem with making relations better with Russia.  I have not problems with strengthening the border.  I have not problem and support better trade relationships with out partners.  I am in support of tougher stance against China.  All of these things are great for a President to tackle and things that he should do.  The biggest problem I have is when you put an idiot in charge of tackling those problems the opposite result happens."

No not really lol. Fuck Russia. I have nothing against Russians, they flock here to my area for school and whatnot but I don't want any relations with Russia other than trade or legal immigration. Borders, I agree. Better trade, I agree. I also have a tougher stance on borrowing from China to pay for our debt, it's pure idiocy. The results are actually better though lol. Look beyond the "public perception" bit and actually look at the results. It's the presentation you have a problem with and many like you. Which is understandable to a certain extent. But to say it has the opposite result is wrong.

"My point is that Trump has no clue what he is doing.  He does not prepare when he meets world leaders.  He does not take the time to understand the actual issues and he doesn't listen to anyone but people who just say yes to his every whim.  As I have stated many times, he is sloppy in pretty much everything he does and his administration just does what he wants but no one takes the time to plan anything right.  You see this every time he speaks to world leaders as he shows his ignorance each and every step.  You have quotes from him talking about Brexit but then again he sounds so ignorant that its funny he would even suggest giving advice on how to handle it.  His Muslin ban failed and he had to go back and re do it because he did not understand now to get something simple done.  Healthcare, nothing.  Basically punted to congress after saying he was the only one who could fix it.  That he had a plan then in his most revealing tweet we get this, "Nobody knew Healthcare could be so complicated".  The only person who did not know was the same person who said he was the only person to fix it."

I think your point is misguided. He has actually done pretty well so far. Talking with other world leaders doesn't really matter to me, he's not the Queen right? It's Donald Trump and he doesn't pretend to be anyone else. He will be gone in 8 years tops. The only reason the travel ban failed is because some hack federal judge in Hawaii overstepped their authority and blocked it. There was nothing wrong with the travel ban, it was simple and some moron in Hawaii made it complicated by sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. The travel ban had to wait until the supreme court decision of telling these federal judges to piss off they don't have the power to tell the President anything.  The ACA is a law made by congress, only congress can get rid of it. That's why executive orders are flimsy, the next executive can come in and wipe it all out. With actual law it's more difficult. The president can sign it or veto it, that's his power in legislation. Congress can override his veto with enough votes. Why is it so complicated? You have a Republican congress and a republican president, what's the deal? Give him something he can sign. I'm glad they got rid of the individual mandate in the tax bill but that's a pretty pathetic win. The individual mandate was unconstitutional, the federal government can not force you to buy a product. I'll never forget what that rat John Roberts did.

"My problem with Trump is not the policies he stand for it's how he executes them.  When you have an idiot tackling complex issues, they can F it up so bad that any real support for policies or issues will have unreasonable conflict because people can only focus on how bad that person screwed it up.  Immigration is a classic example.  The whole taking the children probably could have worked if done with a more deft hand but instead it was rushed without thought.  There was no plan to get the children back to their parents and no way for them to keep in touch or anything.  It was bungled beyond belief and made us look like complete fools.  The whole wall concept and making Mexico pay for it. Was great campaign slogan but anyone with any sense knew this wasn't going to happen and if the wall did get funded it was going to be our dollars doing it."

That's the law, he didn't do anything criminal. Congress needs to change the law lol. Other Presidents were in the wrong by nullifying law and opening our borders. We the people don't get to pick and choose which laws we obey, what kind of shit is that? "Zero Tolerance" was the law as written. People shouldn't be flooding our border in the first place. How you turn off the faucet?  How do you fix what has been ruined without having zero tolerance? Let them stay with their kids outside our wall. I don't care about how we look, I guess that's why we can't see eye to eye. The presentation really is the least important part to me. I just want the shit fixed. Well he is making mexico pay now with the tariffs lol. The wall has been started but  it hasn't been built and that's congress' fault. They send the spending bills. The house has the power of the purse. 

"The main problem with Trump is that he only seems to care about his base but is that what a president suppose to be.  Only caring about your base and forgetting all the people who did not vote for you leaves a big gap and start to make the divide we see today in America."

Who should he be reaching out to specifically? What has he done to hurt the people you are talking about? The divide between the people has very little to do with Trump. It's not Trump vs Anti-Trump. It's much deeper seeded than that. He should pander to his base that elected him. Obama and the democrats never gave me what I wanted but I expected that. They won....

"Needless to say, I can give multiple more incidents where at every turn Trump turned something that could be good into a bungled mess.  His whole administration is filled with people he has to fire or quite because who wants to be a part of a disorganized group of bungling idiots.  Either way, we will see how many more bungled cases continue to show up and how many times you will have to defend every screw up."

Presentation wise, maybe. Execution wise, not bad. Every single person in his administration is targeted and attacked. A few deserved to be fired but to say they are all trying to escape because of Trump is laughable. They are treated like utter dog shit just for working for him. I don't defend him against his wrong doings at all. I defend him when he doesn't do anything wrong, at least not anything important in my view. 
 

HAHAHA,

Are you actually trying to argue that President Bitchtits is masculine?

Those are false equivalences though.
I specified that "And US intelligence sure have a history of shady business and deserve critique for that"
But it's a very different story when they all unanimously agree that the evidence is clear.

Take the Iraq war for example. Not only was there a divide in the House and the Senate when voting on the resolution to go to war, but the CIA also presented President Bush with evidence that Iraq possessed no weapons of mass destruction six months before the 2003 US-led invasion.
According Tyler Drumheller, who headed CIA covert operations in Europe during the run-up to the Iraq war, the White House was at that point no longer interested in intel, but told him it was now about a regime change.

There's no such divide this time. All the intelligence agencies agree unanimously. The house agrees. The senate agrees.
If there's any time you don't undermine the credibility of your intelligence agencies, it's when they all unanimously agree. Because if you doubt them when they're all in unanimous agreement, it means they lose credibility in every other situation. And that's not a good thing for the US.

Furthermore, a few things you need to consider.

a) the intelligence analysts who worked on Middle East WMDs are not going to be the same as analysts focused on Russian cyber-behavior; b) the intelligence collection for hacking in the United States by overseas powers would be different from assessing illicit weapons programs in the Middle East; and c) reforms were put in place after the Iraq War to make it harder for suspect intelligence to bubble up to the top ranks without careful scrutiny. (For instance, a new procedure required heads of intelligence agencies to vouch personally for the credibility of any of their own agency’s sources that are used in a major estimate.)