massimus said:
Biggerboat1 said:
2. I think all he was saying here is that Trump was aware of the evidence and findings of his intelligence agencies... I don't think he's talking about evidence of collusion with Russia/Trump, but evidence of Russia interfering, or at least attempting to interfere with the election...
3. Isn't there significant evidence of Russian interference outwith the server? I can't believe that all of these accusations around Russia are purely based on a server that none of the intelligence services have been allowed to examine...
4. I don't think you and Machiavellion are actually in disagreement here - you're not actually explaining why he walked it back, but rather why he said what he did in the press event...
5. Again, you're not disagreeing here... All you assert is that some of the evidence he ignored was dismissible...
6. Whether it's impeachable is not being debated here - he's saying that "people in all corners of the government who are privy to that information is calling what Trump did treasonous and right up there with impeachable act." - whether or not you personally think it's impeachable or not is irrelevant to his statement.
7. Hallelujah :)
8. Again, your response is not pertinent to what Machiavellion actually said...
I feel like you are kind of going out of your way to interpret his comments in the most disagreeable way possible in order to deliver retorts to points that weren't actually made.
I see this a lot on this forum - whether it's politics or videogames and it doesn't really achieve anything.
You seem like a smart enough guy but also just super-defensive, but that's just my opinion dude, take it on-board or don't, it's totally up to you.
I can understand arguing for something that you believe in on any given issue but I am kind of perplexed at the amount defence I see for Trump personally. He seems to have almost no redeeming features and if I ever have a kid, he'd be the polar opposite of what I'd want him or her to turn out like... Would you?
Again, I can understand defending something that you genuinely believe in, whether it be a party, a policy or a person, but surely Trump isn't deserving of any of your energy?
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Yeah he's aware of the Mueller indictments on Russian nationals that will never show up in Court and get dragged into limbo. That's not evidence, that's a court summons. Trump apparently hasn't seen the findings if he is saying he wants to see the server. I haven't seen any evidence that has Putin giving the order himself like Mach suggests(though i don't doubt it). Regardless, it's still a dumb thing to say at a joint press conference when everyone has their gun out. The main point is that it's not impeachable or treason, let alone obviously so lol. Based on what exactly? "The left and right say so" isn't proof of anything. Saying stupid things and having dumb mannerisms aren't an impeachable offense.
They are still denying congress the information and findings. They are dragging out info subpoenas. Congress still doesn't even have the evidence that started the investigation. Mueller is same guy that has spent hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars on the most thorough investigation in our history probably, searching every nook and cranny chasing the dragon. No budget limit, No boundaries, it's a joke of our justice system. Police state tactics. Why doesn't Trump trust his intelligence? For many more obvious reasons. Some nobody with zero authority has become the most powerful man in the country and he's untouchable. People act like Mueller is more powerful than the President and Congress and it's laughable These Federal judges that keep blocking Trump have absolutely no right to infringe of the authority of the President. They are nothing, a congress creation. So no, his distaste for our Intelligence community and the unconstitutional protests aren't surprising.
The hacking of the DNC and releasing their shit on Wikileaks was very telling sure. If you consider people knowing the truth as "election tampering" then that's pretty fucked up and shows the mentality of the DNC voters. How dare you show the voters what these assholes actually think behind the teleprompter. Buying Ads isn't illegal, sending emails and trashing a candidate aren't illegal. Hacking is illegal sure, and I have no doubt Russia does it everyday. How is that an impeachable offense to Trump though? He hasn't been tied to it even it they did in fact hack the DNC. The evidence should be released to the public if they have it.
He walked back what he said because it was a stupid thing to say. The pockets he's beefing with do not represent the agency as a whole. I actually like the FBI and you can see how much shit I can talk about them. It's not complicated and I already said that. I just explained why he said it in the first place to explain why the puppet master thing was bullshit.
6. How is me telling him his statement is wrong irrelevant? It's not treason, it's fact. Trump could have said fuck our intelligence agencies, that's not treason. He is their boss... Our intelligence agencies have no authority over our President, he does not answer to them. He could disband them if he wanted too, it's well within his authority. It's just not the best thing to do politically or rationally lol. How is outright denying your intelligence briefing(which he didn't do) treason or impeachable? That's some stupid shit to say, left or right.
"I feel like you are kind of going out of your way to interpret his comments in the most disagreeable way possible in order to deliver retorts to points that weren't actually made."
Everything I have said has been in response to the impeachment is obvious statement. That first paragraph was trying to justify impeachment and i called it ridiculous. I didn't deliberately misinterpret what he said and I have no reason to do so. I also haven't changed my stance. That press conference was bad publicity, nothing more.
"You seem like a smart enough guy but also just super-defensive, but that's just my opinion dude, take it on-board or don't, it's totally up to you."
Super defensive how? By explaining why I think the way I do? My language might make my thoughts more aggressive then i'm trying to be. That's why i add lol a lot to let people know i'm not attacking but just making a point in jest.
"I can understand arguing for something that you believe in on any given issue but I am kind of perplexed at the amount defence I see for Trump personally. He seems to have almost no redeeming features and if I ever have a kid, he'd be the polar opposite of what I'd want him or her to turn out like... Would you?"
You wanted to break it down, not me lol. He and you messaged me and I responded. I'm just having a conversation dude. I haven't been disrespectful to anyone personally on here, I defend my views though sure.
"Again, I can understand defending something that you genuinely believe in, whether it be a party, a policy or a person, but surely Trump isn't deserving of any of your energy?"
I don't believe in parties. I do defend policies I believe in. I don't have much faith in politicians. Trump is comedy to me, it's not stressful and I like following the news and politics. Discussing it with you guys takes no energy at all. If somebody says something and I think it's wrong i will say so. People do the same to me like Mach did. I have no issue.
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I'll bow to your more extensive knowledge of all the legal ins & outs.
My original point was that your summary of Machiavellian's paragraph was inaccurate and as both of us have now agreed, every word of the paragraph absolutely wasn't ridiculous. It states many truths although I understand you disagree with it's base premise. It's this type of reliance on exaggeration and hyperbole that causes debates to get out of hand and it smacks more of wanting to win, than engaging in an open and honest discussion, where, god forbid, somebody may change their position.
In various posts you also express your amusement at the way Trump riles up the democrats, but I think revelling in other's distress is never healthy and attitudes like this will just contribute to the ever-widening chasm we're seeing in American society.
Whilst I don't agree with some of Trump's policies I just can't understand the unflinching backing he receives personally from huge swathes of your country. You say he isn't an idiot but I think, you, me, & half of this forum wouldn't have made the blunder he did at the summit, and that was just one of many. To me though, even worse than that was the way he executed his u-turn - he didn't even try to make it appear credible! He knows that what he is saying is going out to his country and the world and he doesn't even try... He may as well have pulled a Ron Burgundy and just gave it the full "fuck you America".
I mean, I'm not a fan of Theresa May by any stretch, she's a total charisma-vacuum. But at least I know when she's giving an interview or meeting another world leader that I'm not going to have to cringe every other sentence...
With Trump everything is 'the best', 'the biggest', 'the most' anything has ever been becaause he's involved. You may say that's just his trade-mark charm, but I personally think he doesn't have a clue whether what he's saying is true or not as he has no knowledge of his own country's history or politics, and what's worse he doesn't care to know... He's just such an odd man to cheer-lead for...
I keep hearing that part of his appeal is that he isn't a career politician, he's an outsider, and as such can make things happen - but for this to happen he actually has to have a basic understanding of the political landscape and how it works.
It's like putting an NFL player in the NBA, but without him knowing the rules - then watching on in horror as he tackles 3 players then punts the basketball into the crowd. You're not going to win the game that way - you're just going to make a fucking mockery of it...
I've kind of veered off my own point here so I'll wrap it up. Again, you seem like a switched on guy who's done his homework. It just makes it all the more bemusing to see you support such an overt narcissist & pathological liar. He truly is stranger than fiction, and I don't think we'll see a President even half as bizarre in our life-times...
