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Forums - Nintendo - DF: Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze - Switch vs Wii U

The average price of the WiiU version on Ebay right now is $13 used, $16 new. So, I'd be willing to pay $25 for the Switch version with enhanced graphics and portability. Maybe $30. But, there is no way in hell that I would pay $60, or even close to that, for a 4 year old game. And, I'm the guy that buys most Nintendo platformers, who happened to skip DKC:TF on Wii U. I figure that makes me the target consumer for this game.



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DonFerrari said:
zorg1000 said:

Stop generalizing millions of people into a single entity. There are multiple people in the "Nintendo fanbase" in this thread alone who are saying it shouldnt be $60.

And when we have threads discussing the price of Nintendo games staying the same several years after release what most of the people there do? Defend the pricing strategy of Nintendo. When those said games keep selling at a good pace years after release, what does that say? That the fanbase accept the strategy as well.

Since I didn't say every Nintendo fan defend, you are seeing generalization because you want to see it.

Funny enough I didn't see you, GoOnKid or anyone else discussing the notion of Miyamotoo that the price is totally valid because it's 2 games in 1.

GoOnKid said:

Will you ever stop generalizing the entire fanbase? There are countless posters in this very thread who are unhappy with the price.

I don't even know you for your assumption of "ever stop". But the answer for you is above. And being unhappy with the price but still buying say a lot.

GoOnKid said:

So, to make this clear even for DonFerrari, I am not defending the price.

With this out of the way, the Nintendo Switch already surpassed the install base of the Wii U. Therefore, under the false asumption that every Wii U owner already has a Switch at this point, this game is new to every new customer. Therefore, a price like this can be justified even for a game that is already four years old. Skyrim is 60 as well, remember? How old is Skyrim?

Staying with Skyrim as an example, the age of a game is irrelevant, anyways. What matters is if people are interested in buying it for the asked price or if they are not. Skyrim still sold pretty okay as far as we know and people like to have it on the Switch. Super Mario Bros. is still one of the most sold games on whatever form of Eshop it appears. That's the true magic that happens here. Whether DKCTF has a difference of 10 bucks or not is more or less irrelevant in the big picture.

And if you already have it on the Wii U, there is absolutley no reason to buy it again. You are not the target group, unless you want to play it on the go. Nintendo doesn't expect you to buy it again because it has a higher resolution. A few more pixels don't improve the game, seriously.

Not defending the price but say it is justified? Yes, yes, sure.... At launch PS4 Sony stated that about 40% of the userbase consisted of people that didn't own a PS3 so for your justification all the ports, collections and remasters would be justified at 60 usd right? Still several/most were sub 60 (as replied by someone earlier TLOU got cut very fast due to customers complaining) and no game got a price increase from porting from PS3 to PS4 even if they had DLCs added.

Skyrim that have been put in almost all systems under the sun being ported for 60usd is basically a rip-off and customers shouldn't entice more thinks like this (or like they did with USFII).

Miyamotoo said:

No, I was talking about value not about price and cost. You dont make any sense, bu pls tell me what is game that you can buy only once and play on 3 different platforms, and how that exactly has anything when we comparing game playing on Wii U comparing to Switch!? I was talking about Wii U compared to Switch games, even PS4/XB1, not to PC/Android platforms wich are quite difrent compared to console platforms. Game that could be played in full handheld and full home console mode definatly has higher value than game that could be played just in handheld or just in home console mode, Hyrule Wariors for Switch definatly has higher value compared to only 3DS version of game compared to Wii U version of game, but that doesnt mean that game need to have higher price point. If you have hard time to understand that than problem is with you. Performance of games never effect price point, if that is a case PC game actualy wouldnt be cheaper than PS4/XB1 versions of games.

Lol, but thats a difrence, you can play one same game in full handheld mode or full home console mode, thats main concept of Switch.

Its simple DKTF 2D platform game cant be more demanding than 3D action game like Bayonetta 2 or racing game like MK8D.

I relly dont care what you think, you can take what I wrote whatever you want, I just saying whats their point of view, I dont agree that game that on Wii U was $50 need to be $60 on Switch.

If you buy "99 Vidas o Jogo" on any PS platform you will have access to it on PS3, PS4 and PSVita as far as I heard from the creators. The point of multiple platforms was your defense of having more value because you can play on the go or on the TV, which isn't particular to the game itself.

So you accept that perfomance of the game doesn't affect the price (but for some reason you ignored if it affects value or not), but then again pretends it make Switch games more valuable... waiting for your definition on Notebooks.

Keep with your perception of the world all you want, if a game is running at a lower resolution and frame than another one at the same system, it's more taxing to the system than the other one unless you can prove it runs at lower processing demands, which you can't since you don't have access to the debugging or any other form to measure how much of the system is being used.

One game!? :D 

Thats a fact its not point if I will accept that or not. Again, I didnt talk about price I was talking about value, and fact is that game that could be played in full handheld mode and full home console mode has greater value than game that could be played only in handheld or only in home console mode.

Yeah, because whats are priorites with games (for instance in this case could be battery save), how good port is, how good development team is, how much time they have for development and optimisation, fact that when you porting game that was specifically made for totally different hardware won't give best results when you porting to totally different platform, point how much they are pushing hardware...dont effect at all on how some game will look and run on some system, right!? :D You relly dont know what are you talking about.



zorg1000 said:
DonFerrari said:

And when we have threads discussing the price of Nintendo games staying the same several years after release what most of the people there do? Defend the pricing strategy of Nintendo. When those said games keep selling at a good pace years after release, what does that say? That the fanbase accept the strategy as well.

Since I didn't say every Nintendo fan defend, you are seeing generalization because you want to see it.

Funny enough I didn't see you, GoOnKid or anyone else discussing the notion of Miyamotoo that the price is totally valid because it's 2 games in 1.


Again you are taking a select few and pretending that equals the majority. Also, accepting and defending are not the same thing.

You said, "Nintendo fanbase defends......while EVERY OTHER CUSTOMER is pleased with cuts....."

You can try weaseling out of it but you were intentionally blocking an entire fanbase together as a hive mind.

As for Miyamotoo, i actually try to avoid reading his posts, they can be very confusing.

Did you purpousely missed the point? It wasn`t a selected few on several of those threads defending that Nintendo keep their price at 60USD for like a full generation, and when the title keep selling at a nice volume all that time it is clear evidence of acceptance by the fanbase.

You mean, you can try to portray that as a hive mind because you felt personally accused of doing that, not that when saying that there was a valid reason within the forum and general fanbase. Which obviously any time any one say something about a fanbase it`s impossible to say it is the behavior of every single person on that base. As I said I didn`t said 'every nintendo fan' I said Nintendo fanbase (which doesn`t mean all, and depending of the case could even not mean most, but still a significant portion).

Do you avoid him because of confusion, but felt like why not accuse me of hating and generalizing.

curl-6 said:

bonzobanana said: 

I thought their was at least some elements to the wii u that can beat the Switch in portable mode. The higher memory bandwidth of the 32MB of edram, higher gflops of the gpu and the simple fact the Switch relies on heavier compression due to lack of storage plus needs to consider battery runtime which often motivates the developer to run at lower performance levels. The Switch portable version of this game is running sub 720P despite the portable screen being 720p. So no it certainly isn't a fact that the Switch in portable should outperform the wii u especially for a mainly 2D platformer like this.

Switch in portable mode is more capable than Wii U, we have seen this demonstrated in pretty much every other conversion between the two from Zelda to FAST RMX to Bayonetta 1/2, all games which are more demanding than Tropical Freeze. Switch has two performance profiles when portable though, 307MHz or 384MHz, and the developer has the choice to use the lower powered one if they prefer. In this case, they likely figured nobody would notice a slight res drop and so prioritized maximum battery life.

Mandalore76 said:

Really?  When I first played the game at release, I thought they were trying to make it too pretty.  Seeing every strand of hair on DK in HD in the cutscenes was almost offputting in my opinion.  I don't need for a mascot character in a platformer to look like an actual real live ape to enjoy said platformer.

I do agree that jacking up the price for the Switch remaster is a mistake though.  Already having it on Wii U, I'm going to pass on this one.

The fur shaders were nifty but other than that the game had very basic lighting and effects, it looked like a mid-gen PS3/360 game.

DonFerrari said: 

On this... Nintendo fanbase defends that they keep the 60usd even 4 years after release to keep the value of the game... while every other customer is pleased with cuts and paying less. Some twist logic.

Except that there are tons of Nintendo fans, including many in this very thread condemning the game's price, but hey, don't let that get in the way of your agenda.

Sure there are ton that doesn`t defend and also part of those are vocal against it. Still I didn`t see you attacking the ones defending and talking about agenda. And seems like you also didn`t read the other posts on the thread where I explain that this notion came from several threads in defense of pratices like this.

Miyamotoo said:
DonFerrari said:

And when we have threads discussing the price of Nintendo games staying the same several years after release what most of the people there do? Defend the pricing strategy of Nintendo. When those said games keep selling at a good pace years after release, what does that say? That the fanbase accept the strategy as well.

Since I didn't say every Nintendo fan defend, you are seeing generalization because you want to see it.

Funny enough I didn't see you, GoOnKid or anyone else discussing the notion of Miyamotoo that the price is totally valid because it's 2 games in 1.

I don't even know you for your assumption of "ever stop". But the answer for you is above. And being unhappy with the price but still buying say a lot.

Not defending the price but say it is justified? Yes, yes, sure.... At launch PS4 Sony stated that about 40% of the userbase consisted of people that didn't own a PS3 so for your justification all the ports, collections and remasters would be justified at 60 usd right? Still several/most were sub 60 (as replied by someone earlier TLOU got cut very fast due to customers complaining) and no game got a price increase from porting from PS3 to PS4 even if they had DLCs added.

Skyrim that have been put in almost all systems under the sun being ported for 60usd is basically a rip-off and customers shouldn't entice more thinks like this (or like they did with USFII).

If you buy "99 Vidas o Jogo" on any PS platform you will have access to it on PS3, PS4 and PSVita as far as I heard from the creators. The point of multiple platforms was your defense of having more value because you can play on the go or on the TV, which isn't particular to the game itself.

So you accept that perfomance of the game doesn't affect the price (but for some reason you ignored if it affects value or not), but then again pretends it make Switch games more valuable... waiting for your definition on Notebooks.

Keep with your perception of the world all you want, if a game is running at a lower resolution and frame than another one at the same system, it's more taxing to the system than the other one unless you can prove it runs at lower processing demands, which you can't since you don't have access to the debugging or any other form to measure how much of the system is being used.

One game!? :D 

Thats a fact its not point if I will accept that or not. Again, I didnt talk about price I was talking about value, and fact is that game that could be played in full handheld mode and full home console mode has greater value than game that could be played only in handheld or only in home console mode.

Yeah, because whats are priorites with games (for instance in this case could be battery save), how good port is, how good development team is, how much time they have for development and optimisation, fact that when you porting game that was specifically made for totally different hardware won't give best results when you porting to totally different platform, point how much they are pushing hardware...dont effect at all on how some game will look and run on some system, right!? :D You relly dont know what are you talking about.

You asked for a game that did this, now that you were given an example you dismiss it? Classic.

VALUE is subjective and opinion, it won`t ever be fact... seems like you have been avoiding your economy classes. And the game itself is the same, the HW is the one that makes it being playable in both situations. Still WiiU you could play on the TV or on the gamepad, did that raise the value of all WiiU games? You also ignored Notebooks as gaming machines that have been doing it before... PS4 games I can play full HH and full console mode as well, can even play full console mode in a different state than my PS4 is hooked.

How can I say that even simpler to you, you may fault the quality of the port or development all you want. The end result is that a game that can only run at sub720p and drops below 30fps is more demanding to the system than a 1080p60fps on the same system. And since you don`t have access to the code, debug or any other revelant information than your 'impression of what is more demanding' you have no ground to say "it is more demanding because of its genre".



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said: 
Miyamotoo said:

One game!? :D 

Thats a fact its not point if I will accept that or not. Again, I didnt talk about price I was talking about value, and fact is that game that could be played in full handheld mode and full home console mode has greater value than game that could be played only in handheld or only in home console mode.

Yeah, because whats are priorites with games (for instance in this case could be battery save), how good port is, how good development team is, how much time they have for development and optimisation, fact that when you porting game that was specifically made for totally different hardware won't give best results when you porting to totally different platform, point how much they are pushing hardware...dont effect at all on how some game will look and run on some system, right!? :D You relly dont know what are you talking about.

You asked for a game that did this, now that you were given an example you dismiss it? Classic.

VALUE is subjective and opinion, it won`t ever be fact... seems like you have been avoiding your economy classes. And the game itself is the same, the HW is the one that makes it being playable in both situations. Still WiiU you could play on the TV or on the gamepad, did that raise the value of all WiiU games? You also ignored Notebooks as gaming machines that have been doing it before... PS4 games I can play full HH and full console mode as well, can even play full console mode in a different state than my PS4 is hooked.

How can I say that even simpler to you, you may fault the quality of the port or development all you want. The end result is that a game that can only run at sub720p and drops below 30fps is more demanding to the system than a 1080p60fps on the same system. And since you don`t have access to the code, debug or any other revelant information than your 'impression of what is more demanding' you have no ground to say "it is more demanding because of its genre".

Yeah I asked for one game, and you gave me, but point is that game like those are very rear (not if you can find me one game), 99% of games dont offer that, one or few examples dont change hole picture.

No, objecticlvy fact is that game you could play in full home console mode and full home console mode have higher value than game that could be played only in handheld or only in home console mode, its 2:1, its clear math. What is subjective is if someone cares about handheld or home console play. Wii U didnt offer full handheld mode, and comparing console platforms with PC platforms is not in place, there quite difrent from plenty of reasons. Its again not same thing, for PS4 not evre game supports Vita remote play, and you need to have additional hardware and you need internet connection, while with Switch you get full handheld mode and full home console mode out of box without any requirements.

Again you dont make any sense, what some dev achieve or choice to achieve with some game on some hardware (for instance choosing stronger battery life over higher resolution), doesnt mean that game couldnt be run better or that game is more demanding than some other or even same game on totaly difrent platform. Fact is that things like what are priorites with games (for instance in this case could be battery save), how good port is, how good development team is, how much time they have for development and optimisation, fact that when you porting game that was specifically made for totally different hardware won't give best results when you porting to totally different platform, point how much they are pushing hardware...effects on development of each game, so if one game runs at 648p and  720p on another totaly difrent platform doesn't mean that Switch in portable mode is less capable that Wii U, when plenty of games until now show it is more capable and specs itself are saying that.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 26 April 2018

Miyamotoo said:
DonFerrari said: 

You asked for a game that did this, now that you were given an example you dismiss it? Classic.

VALUE is subjective and opinion, it won`t ever be fact... seems like you have been avoiding your economy classes. And the game itself is the same, the HW is the one that makes it being playable in both situations. Still WiiU you could play on the TV or on the gamepad, did that raise the value of all WiiU games? You also ignored Notebooks as gaming machines that have been doing it before... PS4 games I can play full HH and full console mode as well, can even play full console mode in a different state than my PS4 is hooked.

How can I say that even simpler to you, you may fault the quality of the port or development all you want. The end result is that a game that can only run at sub720p and drops below 30fps is more demanding to the system than a 1080p60fps on the same system. And since you don`t have access to the code, debug or any other revelant information than your 'impression of what is more demanding' you have no ground to say "it is more demanding because of its genre".

Yeah I asked for one game, and you gave me, but point is that game like those are very rear (not if you can find me one game), 99% of games dont offer that, one or few examples dont change hole picture.

No, objecticlvy fact is that game you could play in full home console mode and full home console mode have higher value than game that could be played only in handheld or only in home console mode, its 2:1, its clear math. What is subjective is if someone cares about handheld or home console play. Wii U didnt offer full handheld mode, and comparing console platforms with PC platforms is not in place, there quite difrent from plenty of reasons. Its again not same thing, for PS4 not evre game supports Vita remote play, and you need to have additional hardware and you need internet connection, while with Switch you get full handheld mode and full home console mode out of box without any requirements.

Again you dont make any sense, what some dev achieve or choice to achieve with some game on some hardware (for instance choosing stronger battery life over higher resolution), doesnt mean that game couldnt be run better or that game is more demanding than some other or even same game on totaly difrent platform. Fact is that things like what are priorites with games (for instance in this case could be battery save), how good port is, how good development team is, how much time they have for development and optimisation, fact that when you porting game that was specifically made for totally different hardware won't give best results when you porting to totally different platform, point how much they are pushing hardware...effects on development of each game, so if one game runs at 648p and  720p on another totaly difrent platform doesn't mean that Switch in portable mode is less capable that Wii U, when plenty of games until now show it is more capable and specs itself are saying that.

If you were planning to dismiss the example anyway then don't ask for examples.

There is no such thing as "objective" value or 2:1. If someone doesn't consider something important than the value for that person of such thing is 0. It is just as simple as that. And if really there were more value to the market on full HH plus console as you imply Switch would not only sell more than PS4, but they would also be able to charge more for the ports and no one would complain. And since some will complain if a multiplat cost more on Switch than on PS4X1 then you can confirm that the market doesn't see this added value of double you are preaching.

Every single game launched could run better. I'm talking same platform don't try to put other things on the mix that have nothing to do with it. And again you don't have any hard fact showing what priorities made the game look or perform as is, so you are just assuming. And again I haven't said that running at 648p on Switch against 720p WiiU makes Switch weaker (could be, we don't have the data for that). What I said is if one game runs at 480p30fps and another at 720p60fps on Switch if you don't have any other data that can sustain your assumption of it not being more demanding, then by default the way it was coded for the first is more demanding to the system.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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Sorry if off topic but is there a way to ignore users on here?



curl-6 said:

bonzobanana said: 

I thought their was at least some elements to the wii u that can beat the Switch in portable mode. The higher memory bandwidth of the 32MB of edram, higher gflops of the gpu and the simple fact the Switch relies on heavier compression due to lack of storage plus needs to consider battery runtime which often motivates the developer to run at lower performance levels. The Switch portable version of this game is running sub 720P despite the portable screen being 720p. So no it certainly isn't a fact that the Switch in portable should outperform the wii u especially for a mainly 2D platformer like this.

Switch in portable mode is more capable than Wii U, we have seen this demonstrated in pretty much every other conversion between the two from Zelda to FAST RMX to Bayonetta 1/2, all games which are more demanding than Tropical Freeze. Switch has two performance profiles when portable though, 307MHz or 384MHz, and the developer has the choice to use the lower powered one if they prefer. In this case, they likely figured nobody would notice a slight res drop and so prioritized maximum battery life.

I think there is a option to reduce memory speed as well to conserve battery life and there is always the pressure on storage for a portable system. Rayman Legends was worse on Switch too due to greater file compression and keeping the games storage requirements low meant loading/decompressing was slower and onscreen artifacts due to compression effects, it was impressively small though.

Prioritising battery life is as stated a reason for performance to go lower.  The extra memory and greater CPU performance of Switch isn't really required here. Having to allow good battery runtime and minimise storage space are technical reasons why a wii u may exceed the performance of Switch in portable mode sometimes surely. All that really matters is the end result. The reason the PS3 often had better soundtracks than 360 and longer and/or higher quality fmv sequences on some games was mainly down to greater storage of a bluray disc nothing more. It still enhanced those games despite having little to do with the main chipset performance of those consoles. The wii u had cheap storage with a single layer bluray disc providing 25GB of capacity and no difference in cost to manufacture a 500MB game on its optical disc or a 25GB game because the disc has a fixed capacity that you can use up to. I don't think you can just cancel out battery runtime and limited storage when it comes to Switch games and expect to be seen as fair. 

Saying that its difficult to get too worked up about either wii u or Switch as it looks so amazing emulated. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGdA686roRo

You can also run the emulator with 3D patches for Zelda for example to give VR reality or support for 3D tv's. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNREdbwizks

So its horrible to say it but often the Nintendo gaming experience can be better on non-Nintendo hardware anyway. It's why for me these Switch ports of wii u games without new content are not very interesting as a wii u owner who already owns these games and it still seems nothing really has been achieved of any significance porting the game from wii u to Switch except to play an old game at the same performance level overall. A little less resolution in portable mode, a little more docked.



Glad to see it's an upgrade but there's too much to buy this summer to be double-dipping at this point. In Feb. (Bayonetta 2), sure...



Retro Tech Select - My Youtube channel. Covers throwback consumer electronics with a focus on "vid'ya games."

Latest Video: Top 12: Best Games on the N64 - Special Features, Episode 7

Mandalore76 said:
GOWTLOZ said:

Remasters on other systems cost $40.

I don't mind the price though, wasn't interested anyways. Xenoblade Chronicles X is a different story.

I don't remember The Last of Us being $40 when it released on PS4

Yes it was $50. God of War 3 Remastered and Gravity Rush Remastered were $40. All of them cheaper than this 2D platformer.



GOWTLOZ said:
Mandalore76 said:

I don't remember The Last of Us being $40 when it released on PS4

Yes it was $50. God of War 3 Remastered and Gravity Rush Remastered were $40. All of them cheaper than this 2D platformer.

So, not $40.