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Forums - Politics Discussion - Can the Rape Culture in the West be Reduced with Guns?

super_etecoon said:
Aeolus451 said:

You're avoiding answering the op on India. What are you gonna fight a bad guy with? Words? The pen? Feelings? 

What do I know about India? Just because India has a problem (and whatever solution you may see) doesn't have anything at all to do with the US.  Trust me, the US has a gun culture problem, period.  It's a fetish, pure and simple.  We also have a ton of other problems here as well...but by all means, keep thinking they can all be solved with a gun.  

Not really. Guns in the US saves more lives than that are lost to them. The majority of gun owners just want to protect themselves from criminals and that's what they do with them. Some like to hunt and some think of it as a sport.

http://concealednation.org/2016/07/here-is-how-many-times-guns-save-lives-each-year/



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VGPolyglot said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:
Well a better point to start from would be to ask if rape culture in the West actually exists.

Well, judging by this definition:

"A society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse."

And considering the thread from yesterday, I'd say that yes it does.

Given the definition of those two terms, I think you have a human problem... The problem is we're trying to prevent things that might not be harassment at all... 



Barozi said:
Qwark said:
No it will make it easier for rapist to threaten their victims. So it would be a counter effective measure. Perhaps legalising pepper spray and tazers will have a better effect. Since you can't kill people with those, but you can momentarily immobilise someone. It's hard to rape when immobilised, but it's kinda a last resort measure.

Pretty sure that has happened with tasers before. More than once.

Well than only pepper spray, I can not recall a fatal incidents with tazers in The Netherlands but I will take your wotd for it. As I said it is a last resort, but if it ends up saving a girl from being raped I am all for it.

Last edited by Qwark - on 11 April 2018

Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

Nymeria said:

The line in the west is often seeing the gap in mentality of joking about rape or making rape threats and being confronted about it. This forum has been really respectful and I appreciate that. In other places online I have felt the hostility and received numerous threats involving rape. Play online and the second they hear my voice my sex becomes a topic and almost inevitably turns to violent statements such as "You fucking dumb cunt, I'd rape your ass until you bleed slut!" Do I think they mean this? No. I think they feel embarrassed they lost to me in a game, and in their impotence lash out in rage to try to gain power in the situation by scaring me. If brought out behind the wall of online anonymity and forced to sit in front of people you'd likely get a meek "I didn't mean it, it was a joke, I'm sorry

I believe it. I don't really do social gaming online anymore for precisely that reason. I too have found VG Chartz to be an unusually welcoming space. (That said, I get discouraged easily anymore and am trying to move past that.) Other gaming forums, like Game FAQs, I have found to be substantially more hostile. And actual online gaming is really the worst. I can't deal with that anymore.

In fact, I was reading an article in the Guardian not long ago that said many women in online gaming are actually resorting to pretending to be male to avoid sexual harassment and threats of violence, especially in the wake of Gamergate. I wonder if that's not true on a lot of gaming forums as well; if there aren't rather more women around these spaces than we're led to believe.

o_O.Q said:
 

" the fact that Donald Trump is my president right now, being as he won election shortly AFTER being caught on video boasting about sexually attacking women on a routine basis."

is this about what happened with stormy daniels?

"27% of women and 7% of men surveyed say that they been sexually attacked before"

how do they differentiate between the attacks and harassment?

"In fact, wittingly or otherwise, you (any given individual) in all likelihood actively participate in rape-positive culture on a daily basis. Here's a particularly obvious example of how: demographically speaking, the average member of this message board consumes online pornography routinely. "

good point, porn is exclusively about the objectification of women and is now more popular than ever

i honestly don't see how someone can advocate for the fair treatment of women and watch porn, the two things are like oil and water, you cannot mix them because of the attitudes and entitlement porn propagates in the minds of men about women

To answer these queries in order:

The contents of the infamous Access Hollywood video and the "Stormy Daniels" affair are distinct. In the Access Hollywood video, Trump boasts about physically assaulting women without their consent. Shortly after the video came out, more than a dozen women went public with precisely those kinds of stories about Mr. Trump. (One of whom will be running for public office this year, incidentally.) The "Stormy Daniels" affair is a separate case that did not involve assault. It is, however, one could reasonably argue, nonetheless related to rape culture in the same vein that the Aziz Ansari case was: there may not have been an actual or attempted rape in either of these particular cases, but the fact that these women nonetheless felt obligated to accede despite not wanting to have sex with the individual in question is also a commonplace phenomenon that I feel is worthy of discussion. If you don't feel that it's acceptable to say no when you don't want to have sex, that is a problem in its own right, IMO.

Regarding the second question, concerning how one differentiates between sexual harassment and sexual violence, the line gets a little thin in places, but essentially what's regarded as sexual harassment ranges in severity from catcalls on the street to most of the #MeToo stories you hear about on the news anymore involving things like the boss ordering you to get on the desk and spread your legs for him or threatening to fire you if you refuse to have sex with him, for example, while sexual assault is a term usually reserved for either completed or attempted rape. It's all really a difference of a shared principle's degrees. All of this is.

Regarding your final point wondering how, as you put it, "someone can advocate fair treatment for women and watch porn", I think many people just don't think about these things and how it might be affecting their psyches. Especially if you're growing up today. It's not cool for guys especially to ask those sorts of reflective questions, you know?

Last edited by Jaicee - on 09 April 2018

VGPolyglot said:
Jaicee said:

-Snip-

I wish I was as eloquent as you were, this is a great post and hopefully brings the situation more to light/makes it more understandable.

Thanks for the compliment. :)



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Jaicee said:

Regarding your final point wondering how, as you put it, "someone can advocate fair treatment for women and watch porn", I think many people just don't think about these things and how it might be affecting their psyches. Especially if you're growing up today. It's not cool for guys especially to ask those sorts of reflective questions, you know?

I have to admit unfortunately that I have an addiction to porn myself, I almost never go a day without watching it. I do try to not let it influence my thoughts and views of others, but of course it could have a subconscious effect that I'm not even aware of.



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
VGPolyglot said:

Well, judging by this definition:

"A society or environment whose prevailing social attitudes have the effect of normalizing or trivializing sexual assault and abuse."

And considering the thread from yesterday, I'd say that yes it does.

Wouldn't the thread yesterday show that there isn't a rape culture? Since most of the people participating in the thread went against said user?

Said user has a nickname thank you. And you accused me of dirty tricks but here you go again...

First "said user" is also against rape, a lot of people got it, it's only a few who didn't or rather chose not to.

Second and in regard to this thread I'm not sure bringing in guns is going to help. As for this being a culture of rape I don't think it is as NO ONE that I know of or heard of, has said that rape is ok.

But there is a problem with rape as the Weinstein case revealed and it seems to be connected to the culture of some corporations as it seems those rapes happened in that context.



CrazyGamer2017 said:
AngryLittleAlchemist said:

Wouldn't the thread yesterday show that there isn't a rape culture? Since most of the people participating in the thread went against said user?

Said user has a nickname thank you. And you accused me of dirty tricks but here you go again...

First "said user" is also against rape, a lot of people got it, it's only a few who didn't or rather chose not to.

What? VGP brought it up, not me. Literally just read the thread. I didn't say your name because I didn't want to point fingers at anyone in particular, since that is probably the last thing you needed after having to be on the defensive in that thread for so long. I literally made my reply as ambiguous as possible so that you WOULDN'T be attacked and yet you take it as a great offense. 



AngryLittleAlchemist said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

Said user has a nickname thank you. And you accused me of dirty tricks but here you go again...

First "said user" is also against rape, a lot of people got it, it's only a few who didn't or rather chose not to.

What? VGP brought it up, not me. Literally just read the thread. I didn't say your name because I didn't want to point fingers at anyone in particular, since that is probably the last thing you needed after having to be on the defensive in that thread for so long. I literally made my reply as ambiguous as possible so that you WOULDN'T be attacked and yet you take it as a great offense. 

Where do you see that I take it as a "GREAT" offense? Don't I have the right to reply when I am called "said user"?

That said if you really meant to be ambiguous in order for me not to be attacked I thank you for the consideration.

If you allow me, I'll just clarify that in yesterday's thread, EVERYBODY went against rape, with different wordings and ways to put it but still I don't recall anyone actually defending rape. So in that sense, I agree that there is no real culture of rape in our western society. The issue is more on the corporate level as the Weinstein case showed us and the problem could be not rape itself but the silence surrounding rape as some victims seem to have spoken about their plights long after it happened, sometimes years after.



Jaicee said:
Nymeria said:

The line in the west is often seeing the gap in mentality of joking about rape or making rape threats and being confronted about it. This forum has been really respectful and I appreciate that. In other places online I have felt the hostility and received numerous threats involving rape. Play online and the second they hear my voice my sex becomes a topic and almost inevitably turns to violent statements such as "You fucking dumb cunt, I'd rape your ass until you bleed slut!" Do I think they mean this? No. I think they feel embarrassed they lost to me in a game, and in their impotence lash out in rage to try to gain power in the situation by scaring me. If brought out behind the wall of online anonymity and forced to sit in front of people you'd likely get a meek "I didn't mean it, it was a joke, I'm sorry

I believe it. I don't really do social gaming online anymore for precisely that reason. I too have found VG Chartz to be an unusually welcoming space. (That said, I get discouraged easily anymore and am trying to move past that.) Other gaming forums, like Game FAQs, I have found to be substantially more hostile. And actual online gaming is really the worst. I can't deal with that anymore.

In fact, I was reading an article in the Guardian not long ago that said many women in online gaming are actually resorting to pretending to be male to avoid sexual harassment and threats of violence, especially in the wake of Gamergate. I wonder if that's not true on a lot of gaming forums as well; if there aren't rather more women around these spaces than we're led to believe.

That's hard to say, my real life experience is video games are  a male dominated space if you are referring to "core gaming" this site deals in.  There isn't a Bejeweled or Candy Crush thread running on here for example.

Men socialize differently from women.  I can have a three hour conversation with female friends about feelings where we really open up and even cry.  I've never seen male friends behave this way, it's often discussing a topic or joking a lot.  I'm not saying one is better, but when you see this divide it can become clear how many men work through processing emotions.

In online spaces people can run or hide easily and often just want reactions because the most shocking statement gets attention.  Make a thread on here that is agreeable and watch it drift away.  Have a "hot take" and antagonize people and see it go for dozens of pages over months.  Gaming online most experiences in games like Fortnite are uneventful, people do their thing, and once in a while get generally a young person who discovered obscenities and racial slurs trying to rile people up.  It's sad, but I don't let it shape how I view gamers or people.