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Forums - Politics Discussion - Can the Rape Culture in the West be Reduced with Guns?

darkenergy said:
I'm pretty sure the US doesn't have a rape culture.

Read Jaicee's post.



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We don't live in a rape culture and guns wouldn't be the answer even if we did.



There seems to be a lot of semantic discussion of terms. I am not familiar enough with India and its laws and customs to know the situation there, I can only speak of experience within the United States.

I think we should do more in the west to help rape victims in terms of counseling and coming to terms with the trauma they suffer. If you've never been raped you may not under the sort of stress it can do to the mind years after the rape. More often than not victims are expected to just move on without having someone to aid them in processing what happened to them. I've even seen first hand victims shamed into raising the child that is a product of rape and how that affects their whole lives and relationship with the child. Even if you want to be selfish about it and ignore moral aspect, victims who receive help become more productive members of society so it is in everyone's interest.

The line in the west is often seeing the gap in mentality of joking about rape or making rape threats and being confronted about it. This forum has been really respectful and I appreciate that. In other places online I have felt the hostility and received numerous threats involving rape. Play online and the second they hear my voice my sex becomes a topic and almost inevitably turns to violent statements such as "You fucking dumb cunt, I'd rape your ass until you bleed slut!" Do I think they mean this? No. I think they feel embarrassed they lost to me in a game, and in their impotence lash out in rage to try to gain power in the situation by scaring me. If brought out behind the wall of online anonymity and forced to sit in front of people you'd likely get a meek "I didn't mean it, it was a joke, I'm sorry".

So on the flip side I think we do have to look into rapists and why it occurs. Is it an institution such as a state, religion, or community that permits it, is it from loneliness, from anger issues, from socio-economic sense of entitlement? It's not meant to excuse, but if we agree it is a problem I think we have to understand its root to treat it better.

On self defense, I've taken classes and major aspect is taking the fear away to know who to escape. In my courses the odds were you'd be dealing with a much larger and stronger attacker so much of the lessons is about making it hard for them and getting away. Having a spray or mace was common as well as maneuvers such as traumatizing the groin of the aggressor and ways to slip out of grips or holds. I'm fine with anyone having tools to defend themselves. The challenge with a fire arm is the training and knowing how much you've escalated the situation immediately. A gun invites the odds of a death significantly, either your own, the attacker, or even a bystander. Have to be prepared for the responsibility and intense training should you elect to go such a route. I personally don't despite having some training in firing pistols and rifles.

In closing, rape is the removal of human dignity debasing the victim below personhood. No one deserves it, from children to women or men. We should always take accusations seriously and pursue proper legal measures on victims behalf. It is normal for many to take years to come to terms with what happened to them. If you think "Why now?" or "But the accused is attractive or victim is not" it shows a profound misinterpretation of what rape does to someone. I think genuine conversations and education is productive in helping deal with the problem.



Jaicee said:

Since many of our members seem to have reached the disingenuous conclusion that there is no such thing as a rape-positive climate in the Western world, I have a few challenges for those individuals.

The first challenge is how you explain the fact that #MeToo originated in the United States. What was that a response to, would you say?

The second challenge is how you explain the fact that Donald Trump is my president right now, being as he won election shortly AFTER being caught on video boasting about sexually attacking women on a routine basis. Would you say that his election signaled public disapproval of such actions?

As a third challenge, how does one explain the testimony of the public itself concerning the commonality of sexual harassment and violence in America?  According to a recent, comprehensive national survey on the subject:

-81% of women and 43% of men surveyed say that they have experienced sexual harassment before.
-27% of women and 7% of men surveyed say that they been sexually attacked before (up from 18% and 2% respectively in the most similar survey from 2010).

I will add that both of those statistics include me personally.

In fact, wittingly or otherwise, you (any given individual) in all likelihood actively participate in rape-positive culture on a daily basis. Here's a particularly obvious example of how: demographically speaking, the average member of this message board consumes online pornography routinely. What are the social roles that one is thereby feeding their brains? The essential thing that one inescapably learns from pornography is that, supposedly, women derive pleasure from any and all dominant behavior that a man can possibly exhibit, up to and frequently including the violation of basic consent. Hell, even being mutilated in a sexual context is commonly portrayed as pleasurable for the female party or parties! You don't think that might have any cumulative impact on what sort of behavior one is willing to let slide in the real world?

My point is that the evidence of what many feminists refer to as rape-positive culture is right in front of your faces! It's frankly hard to miss. One has to try to miss it anymore. The fact that there are more extreme expressions thereof to be found in some other countries (such as the fact that women who speak out against sexual harassment and violence  are actively censored in China, for instance) does not preclude this reality or render it okay in my mind. I regard the "Third World women have it worse, so you can't complain" line of argument to be an opportunistic one used predominantly by First World men to strategically divide women against each other so that we do not think about inconvenient things like what we have in common and the shared source of these oppressions.

 a lot of good points here

"The first challenge is how you explain the fact that #MeToo originated in the United States. What was that a response to, would you say?"

the only sensible answer would be a rape culture i would think

" the fact that Donald Trump is my president right now, being as he won election shortly AFTER being caught on video boasting about sexually attacking women on a routine basis."

is this about what happened with stormy daniels?

"81% of women and 43% of men surveyed say that they have experienced sexual harassment before."

that's 4 out of 5... that's insane 

"27% of women and 7% of men surveyed say that they been sexually attacked before"

how do they differentiate between the attacks and harassment?

"In fact, wittingly or otherwise, you (any given individual) in all likelihood actively participate in rape-positive culture on a daily basis. Here's a particularly obvious example of how: demographically speaking, the average member of this message board consumes online pornography routinely. "

good point, porn is exclusively about the objectification of women and is now more popular than ever

i honestly don't see how someone can advocate for the fair treatment of women and watch porn, the two things are like oil and water, you cannot mix them because of the attitudes and entitlement porn propagates in the minds of men about women

Last edited by o_O.Q - on 09 April 2018

Nymeria said:

There seems to be a lot of semantic discussion of terms. I am not familiar enough with India and its laws and customs to know the situation there, I can only speak of experience within the United States.

I think we should do more in the west to help rape victims in terms of counseling and coming to terms with the trauma they suffer. If you've never been raped you may not under the sort of stress it can do to the mind years after the rape. More often than not victims are expected to just move on without having someone to aid them in processing what happened to them. I've even seen first hand victims shamed into raising the child that is a product of rape and how that affects their whole lives and relationship with the child. Even if you want to be selfish about it and ignore moral aspect, victims who receive help become more productive members of society so it is in everyone's interest.

The line in the west is often seeing the gap in mentality of joking about rape or making rape threats and being confronted about it. This forum has been really respectful and I appreciate that. In other places online I have felt the hostility and received numerous threats involving rape. Play online and the second they hear my voice my sex becomes a topic and almost inevitably turns to violent statements such as "You fucking dumb cunt, I'd rape your ass until you bleed slut!" Do I think they mean this? No. I think they feel embarrassed they lost to me in a game, and in their impotence lash out in rage to try to gain power in the situation by scaring me. If brought out behind the wall of online anonymity and forced to sit in front of people you'd likely get a meek "I didn't mean it, it was a joke, I'm sorry".

So on the flip side I think we do have to look into rapists and why it occurs. Is it an institution such as a state, religion, or community that permits it, is it from loneliness, from anger issues, from socio-economic sense of entitlement? It's not meant to excuse, but if we agree it is a problem I think we have to understand its root to treat it better.

On self defense, I've taken classes and major aspect is taking the fear away to know who to escape. In my courses the odds were you'd be dealing with a much larger and stronger attacker so much of the lessons is about making it hard for them and getting away. Having a spray or mace was common as well as maneuvers such as traumatizing the groin of the aggressor and ways to slip out of grips or holds. I'm fine with anyone having tools to defend themselves. The challenge with a fire arm is the training and knowing how much you've escalated the situation immediately. A gun invites the odds of a death significantly, either your own, the attacker, or even a bystander. Have to be prepared for the responsibility and intense training should you elect to go such a route. I personally don't despite having some training in firing pistols and rifles.

In closing, rape is the removal of human dignity debasing the victim below personhood. No one deserves it, from children to women or men. We should always take accusations seriously and pursue proper legal measures on victims behalf. It is normal for many to take years to come to terms with what happened to them. If you think "Why now?" or "But the accused is attractive or victim is not" it shows a profound misinterpretation of what rape does to someone. I think genuine conversations and education is productive in helping deal with the problem.

i admire how proactive you have been with learning self defense and i'm saddened to hear about the abuse you have experienced while playing online although it sounds like you really kick butt lol

and i do think that more needs to be done to combat this problem, with this thread i was just wondering if people here think the women of india have found a viable solution in arming themselves and it seems like its mostly a no

maybe i should have put in a poll



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o_O.Q said: 

i admire how proactive you have been with learning self defense and i'm saddened to hear about the abuse you have experienced while playing online although it sounds like you really kick butt lol

and i do think that more needs to be done to combat this problem, with this thread i was just wondering if people here think the women of india have found a viable solution in arming themselves and it seems like its mostly a no

maybe i should have put in a poll

It wasn't proactive sadly, and one side effect of my experience is empty internet threats don't phase me.  One thing I was taught was you empower people by giving their words weight.  Think about the person and why what they say affects you or not.  Rather than lashing out back at remarks I find people can forget themselves or the meaning of their words in situations.  Simply thinking that every person on this forum is a human with whole life can be jarring if you see it as an anonymous place where you're just venting at a screen.



Qwark said:
No it will make it easier for rapist to threaten their victims. So it would be a counter effective measure. Perhaps legalising pepper spray and tazers will have a better effect. Since you can't kill people with those, but you can momentarily immobilise someone. It's hard to rape when immobilised, but it's kinda a last resort measure.

Pretty sure that has happened with tasers before. More than once.



Everytime i see this "western rape culture" pop up, this extreme contrast to whats going on in other parts of the world comes to my mind. A "real rape culture", because it is deeply embeded in the culture of countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan, completely normal, completely accepted, organised and systematic.



Hunting Season is done...

hmm In Indian, if women had guns, it would be the quickest and most pragmatic way stop the majority of the rapes. Mainly, because they are attacked at night when they are walking to the fields to relieve themselves. The police aren't stepping up patrols or catching the raptists. The government still hasn't built public bathrooms or hired any security. Hell, a government official said it was just boys being boys and dismissed the issue. Normal boys don't rape women or gang rape then hang them.

At this point, just let the women protect themselves and shoot any guy that tries it. The cops can just collect the corpses of the bad guys each morning after they been laying in the bathroom fields all night.



Man, a good guy (or girl) with a gun seems to be the solution for all problems. You think maybe we have a gun culture problem instead?