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Forums - Politics Discussion - FISA/FBI memo released - how Obama/Clinton spied on the Trump campaign

That's it? All this does is long lasting damage to the WH, justice system, and friends abroad.



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Trumps lawyers called this memo an "opinion from the rep. GOP members"....

Opinion. There is nothing on this memos. This fox channel hyped that so much up so that i thought they have found the holy grail or the meaning of life itself.



It's not quite what it was made out to be but it is damning to the FBI and DOJ. The fisa application process needs to revamped. It won't cause the russia investigation to shut down.

Last edited by Aeolus451 - on 03 February 2018

Puppyroach said:
Locknuts said:

Ok so the Clinton campaign paid for a 'Dossier' from a former British spy who got his information from some Russians (foreigners interfering in an election anyone?) with the intent to get dirt on the Trump campaign. Most of the information in the Dossier is unverifiable. This unverified Dossier is the cited as a critical piece of evidence in order to get a FISA application to spy on a US citizen by the name of Carter Page. It would have been impossible for a FISA application to be used to spy on a US citizen before Bush changed the law to allow it. Obama did nothing to change this and continued to allow it. The man at the top always bears some responsibility for the things that happen under his administration and I find it very hard to believe he had no idea this was going on. Carter Page at one time worked for the Trump campaign, this was the reason he was targeted.

Also, the memo is not an opinion piece. If the statements in it are false, there could be serious repercussions for the author. No government official is going to risk going to prison over this. I'd say it's factual.

How could you possibly know most of the info in the dossier is unverifiable? 

I meant unverified.



irstupid said:
Trumpstyle said:

You are good :) I can't tell if you are a troll or serious.

This memo tell us that the dossier had a part in the Fisa application on Carter Page. How big part of the FISA application we don't know as this memo is designed to hide it. It also confirms the dossier did NOT trigger the russia investigation so many republicans has claimed.

I don't see either how a FISA application is relevent to anything. If the Trump campaign is guilty of collusion with the Russian then they guilty, if not they are not guilty. It's really just that simple.

Nothing about Obama/clinton used Fbi to spy on Trump. Nothing about DNC paid Fusion to fabricate the Russia dossier (we don't know if the dossier is fake or true). But we do know DNC payed money to obtain the dossier, as all campaigns do to get dirt on their opponent. Nothing about FBI/DOJ misled FISA courts, but maybe I missed it.

Think of it this way. The police bring someone in for questioning or whatever. They have only 24 or 48 hours to bring up charges and arrest him or they have to let him go. That is where the Dossier comes into play. The FISA application was to continue surveillance on the guy. There was a time limit on the surveillance. They used this Dossier to extend that and let them continue watching. Without it, they would have had to stop.

You're just making up random stuff. The memo doesn't say that. There were 4 FISA application, there is questions if 1 of those application had big or small relevance on the dossier. We just simply don't know as the memo is intentionally hiding it.



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jason1637 said:

Lee Zeldin is a republican and wasn't in the room when the intelligence hearing on Andrew McCabe was conducted (this is about McCabe supposedly said there would be no FISA application on carter page without the dossier) . Also republicans refuses to give transcript or a quote from the hearing. You should w8 before drawing any conclusion.



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Locknuts said:
Machiavellian said:

Obama has absolutely nothing to do with this.  Exactly what was abused.  You are making an opinion from a political opinion piece and not all the facts.

 

Also, the memo is not an opinion piece. If the statements in it are false, there could be serious repercussions for the author. No government official is going to risk going to prison over this. I'd say it's factual.

It must be nice being this naive. First thing you should learn about american politics, it's easy to tell a lie that is not a lie.

This memo claimed that James Comey said that the dossier was unverified, this is a lie. So you already wrong!!!!

 

https://www.redstate.com/patterico/2018/02/02/significant-inaccuracy-thememo-calls-credibility-question/



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Locknuts said:
Machiavellian said:

Obama has absolutely nothing to do with this.  Exactly what was abused.  You are making an opinion from a political opinion piece and not all the facts.

Ok so the Clinton campaign paid for a 'Dossier' from a former British spy who got his information from some Russians (foreigners interfering in an election anyone?) with the intent to get dirt on the Trump campaign. Most of the information in the Dossier is unverifiable. This unverified Dossier is the cited as a critical piece of evidence in order to get a FISA application to spy on a US citizen by the name of Carter Page. It would have been impossible for a FISA application to be used to spy on a US citizen before Bush changed the law to allow it. Obama did nothing to change this and continued to allow it. The man at the top always bears some responsibility for the things that happen under his administration and I find it very hard to believe he had no idea this was going on. Carter Page at one time worked for the Trump campaign, this was the reason he was targeted.

Also, the memo is not an opinion piece. If the statements in it are false, there could be serious repercussions for the author. No government official is going to risk going to prison over this. I'd say it's factual.

First lets begin that Republicans paiid for a Dossier from a former British spy then when they decided to roll with Trump, they decided to not fund any further research.  Next Clinton continued the funding of this research.  It really doesn't matter if the information is unverifiable since it also cannot be disproved either. 

You have a memo from a known associate of the Trump campaign who was caught leaking confidential information to the White House stating this Dossier was a key piece of information to the FISA application.  Let us really think about this for a moment.  You have someone who is supposed to be investigating the President, leaking information about the investigation to the president.  Now we the public is suppose to believe that an opinion memo from the said leaker is true without any due process to that memo.  Next you want everyone to believe that all the other evidence that was not cited in the memo of Carter Page dealings with known Russia agents was nothing.  As you site that the Dossier has unverifiable information, so does this memo.  What you just did was choose the information you wanted to believe because it fit your opinion.  I am more than willing to wait until the Dems have their rebuff of that memo so we know all the information instead of just choosing the information that fit my opinion.

LOL, its not a piece of evidence gleaned from testimony on the stand.  Its a memo.  Since the person who wrote is is already being investigated for leaking confidential information to the White House, I think we can also say that his opinion is more than a little one sided.  Not sure why you believe a memo is factual since there is nothing about it that could prosecute the person who wrote it.



The_Yoda said:
Machiavellian said:

Obama has absolutely nothing to do with this.  Exactly what was abused.  You are making an opinion from a political opinion piece and not all the facts.

 Ignoring "political opinion piece" aren't you doing the same thing if the entirety of the dossier hasn't been released?

Unlike probably a lot of people, I actually do my research on the issue before making any statements.  I have not made any decisions on the memo just yet because I am waiting to see what the Dems offer but one thing is definitely clear.  As I stated, there was a lot of information to Carter Page dealings with known agents from Russia.  What this memo is trying to suggest is that the Dossier was this key piece of information.  Its aim is to throw any kind of doubt on the investigation, the FBI and the DOJ from a person who has shone where his allegiance is at.

The source of the memo is very suspect since that same person is under investigation for leaking confidential information to the President from the investigation he was running.  That same person had to recuse himself from everything about the investigation because of his leaking information to the President.  With that information it looks very suspect when that same person also write up a memo missing a lot of info that tries to undermine that investigation of the President he leaked information to.  



But Trump own Deputy attorney general reauthorized the warrant. So this is all utter nonsense. Their is obviously more to this then they wanted us to know. And by multiple federal judges and we already have two guilty pleas. The dossier which the GOP initiated may have parts that were already corroborate or new evidence may have been used to obtain the warrant. Common sense should tell anyone that this is a Trump diversion tactic.

The obvious point is the Trump has been warned the firing Rod would amount to an additional obstruction of justice charge.