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Forums - Nintendo - Report: Japanese Third Parties Unconvinced Of The Switch Are Now Scrambling

zorg1000 said:
Darc Requiem said:

The Wii U was selling well until Nintendo needed to pull the plug for Switch development. The Wii U is very similar to the Sega Saturn. The Saturn doing well in Japan but Sega pulled the plug because it was only doing well in Japan. 

No it wasnt, all the data you need is right here on this site, Wii U did fucking terrible its entire life in Japan.

 

2012-630k

2013-950k

2014-590k

2015-850k

2016-290k

 

Tell me at what point was Wii U doing good in Japan? Every home console or handheld by Nintendo, Sony & Sega outsold it except for Dreamcast & Game Gear.

I stand corrected. IIRC the PS4 took a while to surpass it. I thought it did better in Japan than it actually did.



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If they're talking about ground-up exclusives for the Switch, then I can see most big titles not hitting until 2019... but how will 3rd parties NOT have any heavy hitters for the Switch out over the next 14 months??

The Switch isn't that hard to port to or develop for according to most 3rd parties that have worked with it so far, so why couldn't most Japanese 3rd parties release Switch versions of their multiplatform games over the next year or so? Hell, the Switch is getting Doom '16 THIS YEAR and Wolfenstein II early next year from Western developers, so no reason we shouldn't see major releases by Capcom, Squeenix and the like on the Switch as well (provided of course that they're not exclusive to other consoles).



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

Darc Requiem said:
zorg1000 said:

No it wasnt, all the data you need is right here on this site, Wii U did fucking terrible its entire life in Japan.

 

2012-630k

2013-950k

2014-590k

2015-850k

2016-290k

 

Tell me at what point was Wii U doing good in Japan? Every home console or handheld by Nintendo, Sony & Sega outsold it except for Dreamcast & Game Gear.

I stand corrected. IIRC the PS4 took a while to surpass it. I thought it did better in Japan than it actually did.

No problem, and ya it took PS4 awhile to pass it but its not like PS4 has done great in Japan either, its kind of a middle of the pack performer.

It has/will sell better than all Sega/Xbox devices along with Wii U, GC, N64 & Vita but will be far below NES, SNES, GB, PS1, PS2, PSP, DS & 3DS. It will sell right around PS3/Wii in Japan which both did good but not great.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Darashiva said:
I actually don't get why it is such a huge issue for some people that third parties are being cautious about the success of a new console. There's never any guarantee that a console is going to be a profitable platform for a developer, and even if it would have been a success in Japan, one region isn't enough to justify a huge support for any console outside of niche titles and genres.

The thing is, did you ever hear something like that for Playstation or Xbox? It's always just Nintendo who has to prove it's selling well first. Which is difficult because since they hold back their games, Nintendo lacks games and thus is not selling well. Nintendo is condemned to sell on it's first parrty titles early on, or else their console fails because everybody else is holding back. if the same had happened to the PS4 and Xbox ONE, they would have crashed and burned after Knack and Ryse flopped saleswise. Ps360 got plenty of games despite each of them selling quite badly for 3 years straight yet nobdy pulled the plug or questioned if they should continue to support them, on the other hand the Wii, who outsold the other 2 consoles combined at that time, still got little support.



NightDragon83 said:
If they're talking about ground-up exclusives for the Switch, then I can see most big titles not hitting until 2019... but how will 3rd parties NOT have any heavy hitters for the Switch out over the next 14 months??

The Switch isn't that hard to port to or develop for according to most 3rd parties that have worked with it so far, so why couldn't most Japanese 3rd parties release Switch versions of their multiplatform games over the next year or so? Hell, the Switch is getting Doom '16 THIS YEAR and Wolfenstein II early next year from Western developers, so no reason we shouldn't see major releases by Capcom, Squeenix and the like on the Switch as well (provided of course that they're not exclusive to other consoles).

Ya i think you're right. Most major built from the ground up exclusives will likely be 2019 while 2018 will primarily be ports, indies and small-medium sized exclusives from 3rd parties.

The type of games that arent system sellers on their own but are nice support titles to fill in gaps between 1st party titles.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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Granted it's possible that the way Nintendo initially showed off the system may not have been impressive to some third parties. Without knowing the context of how the marketing would be or how good Zelda would be, it is easy to look at the concept as basically a better version of the Wii U. The screen size is even exactly the same and there's no real hugely new idea, it's just far better execution with actual portability.

Great marketing (marketing at adults instead of kids) and a great launch lineup helped a lot in driving the system's initial success, but it is succeeded off basic execution more than trying to be a blue ocean miracle, it's hard for a third party to know for example that Nintendo would market so well after the Wii U was marketed so terribly.

Hopefully the devs get up to speed a bit faster than 2019 though. I do think you can at least port some games within 12 months without too much fuss. Two years is something more for a game that would be built entirely from scratch, and I don't expect too many of those regardless of the Switch's success, most games today are multiplatform in some way even on PS4. I don't expect many games built exclusively for the Switch from third parties, but something like Resident Evil 7 or even Final Fantasy XV if its brought to Switch should not require 2 years of development time even if assets have to be rebuilt in some instances. The basic game design, level design, art style, character design, is something a port doesn't have to concern itself that much with. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 05 November 2017

spurgeonryan said:
Well, this Al makes sense, they should have been skeptical. Now we have to wait for them to jump onboard. But what will keep the switch selling after Mario?

Pokemon. There might also come a new Mario, Zelda and Mario Kart. You never know.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
Darashiva said:
I actually don't get why it is such a huge issue for some people that third parties are being cautious about the success of a new console. There's never any guarantee that a console is going to be a profitable platform for a developer, and even if it would have been a success in Japan, one region isn't enough to justify a huge support for any console outside of niche titles and genres.

The thing is, did you ever hear something like that for Playstation or Xbox? It's always just Nintendo who has to prove it's selling well first. Which is difficult because since they hold back their games, Nintendo lacks games and thus is not selling well. Nintendo is condemned to sell on it's first parrty titles early on, or else their console fails because everybody else is holding back. if the same had happened to the PS4 and Xbox ONE, they would have crashed and burned after Knack and Ryse flopped saleswise. Ps360 got plenty of games despite each of them selling quite badly for 3 years straight yet nobdy pulled the plug or questioned if they should continue to support them, on the other hand the Wii, who outsold the other 2 consoles combined at that time, still got little support.

The thing is, there's more than just overall sales figures that companies are taking into account when considering what consoles they support. Taking your example of the previous console generation, the PS3 and 360 were relatively close to each other when it came to developing games for them, both having fairly similar processing powers and supporting the same game engines, whereas the Wii was quite different. In many ways those differences worked in its favour, but because it was different developing games for it couldn't just be done by porting a game from the other two consoles to it. Even when the same games were released on all three systems, the one on Wii often had to be built separately. I also don't ever recall the PS3 or 360 selling all that poorly even early on. They were certainly not in the same league as the Wii, but they were still doing fine from the beginning. I can't say why exactly the Wii got little support, but the fact it was just so different both in architecture and in its use of motion controls that many developers may have been unsure how to even approach the system. 

In addition, appearances count for a lot, and right now Nintendo is coming off what is basically their least succesful home console ever with the Wii U, whereas the PS3 for example was following up on the most successful home console ever. Game companies have a tendency to look at recent history when making important decisions, and in that regard the Switch had an uphill battle to fight compared to the PS3 or PS4.  

RolStoppable said:
Darashiva said:

There's also the fact that the 3DS had a large, already established fanbase and over 20 million sold consoles when the Switch was coming out, so even if they knew the Switch was going to take its place, there's a difference between making games for a new console just out on the market and one with millions of already existing potential customers. One simply makes more sense in terms of business. 

This is the usual either-or fallacy that commonly comes up in response to third party support on Nintendo consoles. There's no decision to be made between Switch or any other platform as game development for multiple platforms can run in parallel. What makes the most sense for businesses is that they prepare themselves for the next market leader (in this case Switch because the PS4 showed no signs of becoming it) when the current market leader (in this case 3DS) is heading towards its end of life.

Even Nintendo themselves is in a transitional period where Switch and 3DS games are released next to each other. Of course it can't be expected from third parties that they are as confident as Nintendo and put their biggest games on Switch in the first year already, but a shift in development has to happen regardless because it will be unavoidable due to the market moving on from 3DS to Switch. Showing up early is beneficial as Koei-Tecmo has experienced; their support for Switch hasn't been high profile, but they made several games available quickly and gathered experience in Switch game development which provides an advantage for the following projects.

I want companies to support the Switch more, but I just accepted the fact that it was most likely not going to happen early on in any huge way. Developing for a new system will always take resources, regardless of whether you can develop games parallel to one another. The shift from the 3DS to the Switch will happen, but game companies are in most cases going to take the safe bet, and in this case that safe bet was the 3DS over the Switch. It's not even about whether they could have made a profit by making games for the Switch, as many likely would have. Rather, I think it had more to do with the fact that there was more profit to be made elsewhere.

Koei-Tecmo has done well for itself, seeing what many other companies may not have, but that's just the reality of the business quite often. It's one of the reasons why I never buy consoles within the first year or two from their launch. And I agree with you, many companies would do very well starting with smaller projects on new consoles. I just rarely expect them to do so until a console has become a proven commodity. 



That is what you get.



 

Nautilus said:

My problem is that the developers werent cautious with the PS4, and that was a home console(Im talking about japan here, since the article is about japanese companies).I get if it were companies that dont traditionally develop for handhelds, but for these companies that do, I dont get why they didnt get in earlier.Nintendo handhelds(since Switch is part handheld) never sold badly, and developers that have games that are more portable centric, like Capcom with MH, are nowhere to be seen(MH XX port doesnt count.That game is a port of an port of an expansion.I lost count of how many times Capcom resold that game).Which, if you ask anyone here, would be a garantee that would sell well on the Switch.

Thats whats mindbogling.The part why its ok to go early to other consoles, or at least offer decent support, but not for the Switch, which would also be a safe bet.

I placed the 2 main offenders. I can list more if you want.

Capcom

2014
PlayStation 4 Strider 02/18/14 North America

 

2017
Nintendo Switch Ultra Street Fighter II: The Final Challengers 05/26/17 North America
Nintendo Switch Monster Hunter XX: Double Cross Nintendo Switch Ver. 08/25/17 Japan
Nintendo Switch Resident Evil: Revelations Collection 11/28/17 North America
Nintendo Switch BioHazard: Revelations (Unveiled Edition) 11/28/17 North America
Nintendo Switch Biohazard: Revelations 2 11/28/17 North America

 

 

2011
3DS Super Street Fighter IV: 3D Edition 02/26/11 North America
3DS Resident Evil: The Mercenaries 3D 06/02/11 North America
3DS Nazo Waku Yakata: Oto no Ma ni Ma ni Daiichi Wa - Hikarume 08/04/11 Japan
3DS Nazo Waku Yakata: Oto no Ma ni Ma ni 08/04/11 Japan
3DS Monster Hunter 3G 12/10/11 North Americ

 

Namco

Nintendo Switch Namco Museum 07/28/17 North America
Nintendo Switch One Piece: Unlimited World R - Deluxe Edition 08/24/17 North America
Nintendo Switch Dragon Ball: Xenoverse 2 09/07/17 North America
Nintendo Switch Pokken Tournament DX 09/22/17 North America

After 8 months since PS4 released date was Feb 2014.

PlayStation 4 Lords of the Fallen 10/28/14 North America
PlayStation 4 MotoGP 14 11/04/14 North America
PlayStation 4 MXGP: The Official Motocross Videogame 11/18/14 North America
PlayStation 4 M3: Sono Kuroki Hagane /// Mission Memento Mori 11/20/14 Japan
Last edited by NoCtiS_NoX - on 05 November 2017