Forums - Politics Discussion - Trump's tax proposal: raise taxes on the poor, give to the rich

Must be hard living with just $6 million instead of $7 million on a $10 million income. Now way to hire anyone now. Time to move everything off shore.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

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Superman4 said:
StarOcean said:

That's their only defense. Whataboutism. Since they can't defend their Nazi leader, they attack anyone else. They're basically saying, "Since Person A broke the rules, it's okay for ME to break the rules." Which isn't how the world works but it the crux of their political ideology. It's weak and pathetic, like Trump. 

They seem to not understand that you can condem more than one group at a time. For example one of the most infuriating things is when I hear people go, "This is what science is focused on? Why do we fund them?" When they see an article about a minor and sometimes stupid study. While ignoring that "science" is not an organization and has millions of people studying different things in each respective branch of said subject. 

Whataboutism is another way of saying "I can't find a way to justify his actions."

Yet the Liberal media and Democrats throw out BS labels like Nazi and Racist to try and drive their point home or paint the President in a bad light. Increasing deportations of illegals and removing DACA doesnt make Trump a racist. Last time I checked their are plenty of white people in this country illegally from other countries. Last I checked Trump also denounced all hate groups including Neo-Nazis and the KKK. The reason Hillary and Obama get pointed out is because the Democrats and Liberals hale them as their gods that do no wrong while crapping from their mouths about Trump and everything they feel he is doing wrong. From a policy standpoint Trump is one of the best Presidents we have had in ages. If he had Obamas ability to speak he would be an amazing President. We have essentially swapped one for the other, one spoke a good game and was poor on execution with bad ideas, the other is bad with speaking but has great ideas about what needs to happen. If he had Obamas speaking ability he would have no problem getting everything he wants, ACA would be gone, Travel ban would be in place etc. 

All of that said though, the media is making the US look like a bunch of idiots, not Trump. The constant spin from companies like CNN, MSNBC, Wapo etc. get their base all riled up and create problems out of nothing. Those companies need to either report the news as it happens without interjecting their opinions or start off each show with "This is our opinion on what just happened". 

I just shat my pants at work.



mizzou_guy said:
Superman4 said:

Yet the Liberal media and Democrats throw out BS labels like Nazi and Racist to try and drive their point home or paint the President in a bad light. Increasing deportations of illegals and removing DACA doesnt make Trump a racist. Last time I checked their are plenty of white people in this country illegally from other countries. Last I checked Trump also denounced all hate groups including Neo-Nazis and the KKK. The reason Hillary and Obama get pointed out is because the Democrats and Liberals hale them as their gods that do no wrong while crapping from their mouths about Trump and everything they feel he is doing wrong. From a policy standpoint Trump is one of the best Presidents we have had in ages. If he had Obamas ability to speak he would be an amazing President. We have essentially swapped one for the other, one spoke a good game and was poor on execution with bad ideas, the other is bad with speaking but has great ideas about what needs to happen. If he had Obamas speaking ability he would have no problem getting everything he wants, ACA would be gone, Travel ban would be in place etc. 

All of that said though, the media is making the US look like a bunch of idiots, not Trump. The constant spin from companies like CNN, MSNBC, Wapo etc. get their base all riled up and create problems out of nothing. Those companies need to either report the news as it happens without interjecting their opinions or start off each show with "This is our opinion on what just happened". 

I just shat my pants at work.

LOL, Hope it didnt stink too bad. Dont leave out the first part "From a Policy Standpoint".  Trump is horrible at articulating his point, his ideas for the most part I agree with.  



Superman4 said:
Machiavellian said:

No, that money was taxed for the person who made it.  It was not taxed for the people who are receiving it.  The people who are receiving it did nothing to make it so just like any personal gain you receive you should be taxed.  I am all for getting rid of the estate tax but only if as I stated, getting rid of bonus or personal gain that I am taxed as well.  If not they I do not see where I should accept any special privillage for the rich.  You can argue this all day but in the end, the people who are inheriting an estate did not contribute to the gain and thus should be tax just like everyone else.

Bonuses and overtime shouldnt be taxed any different than basic income. Why should the goverment get a bonus because of my work? We have way too many taxes and far too many politicians. We pay these people 100K+ each per year with all of the money they say is for roads and infrastructure. How many taxes do I need for roads? 90% on them in California suck and we clearly dont use tax money for what it was initially slated for.  Property tax is designed to allow the goverment to continually own your property. If you fail to pay they take your property. That money goes to infrstructure about as much as miy paycheck goes to cocaine and hookers....none, although some of it probably should. 

You are not getting my point.  The point is that those things are taxed and nothing is going to change anytime soon if ever.  I totally agree there needs to be an accounting to what is taxed and exactly where that money goes.  I know in some neighborhoods, I actually see that money used.  I see improvements in roads, schools, rec centers, parks etc.  I have also seen the opposite where you see nothing.

My main point is that the estate tax is no different than the taxes we pay for a bonus or if we win the lottery or if someone wins the lottery and give you 50 grand or any of the personal gain taxes we pay now.  Why should we the public give the rich a free ride when we do not get one as well.  So my stance is hell no to any of these billionaires trying to get something passed that totally benefit them but not trying to give us the 99% the same benefit.  Get rid of the bonus or personal gain taxes we pay and then I can see myself agreeing with getting rid of the estate tax.



The_Yoda said:
sundin13 said:

To use figures more accurately representing this tax plan:

Worker One is paid $1000 and is asked to pay 20% in taxes. Now, under Trump's "Everybody saves!" plan, he "only" has to pay 19.8% in taxes, saving him a whopping $2 per paycheck.
Worker Two is paid $10000 and is asked to pay 30% in taxes. Now, under Trump's "Everybody saves!" play, he only has to pay 21.9% in taxes, saving him "only" $810 per paycheck.

Pretty much everybody is getting an infinitesimally small benefit in terms of after-tax income, except the top 5% who are going to be making up to 10% more.

PS: I'm not trying to argue with you, just adding to what you are saying.

How much does worker one get back at the end of the year? How much does worker two get back at the end of the year?

Okay so how it works is that taxable income is what is assessed in the example.  This implys that both Worker One and Two have applied applicable deductions to their gross income to arrive at a tax bracket for which this example applies.  Well thats the only way to think about the example because that is what tax actually is... a return is (income - deductions) * tax rate... in laymens terms.  Owed tax and entitled returns are the same thing mathmatically, just opposites. 



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SpokenTruth said:
Must be hard living with just $6 million instead of $7 million on a $10 million income. Now way to hire anyone now. Time to move everything off shore.

The problem is if you tax the rich too much they would just leave which means we get nothing. A lot of companies move their company to Canada and other countries. 

Taxing the rich to death means they will leave and you'll miss them when they're gone. Besides, Government wastes a lot of money they could easily cut back on certain things.



Snoopy said:
SpokenTruth said:
Must be hard living with just $6 million instead of $7 million on a $10 million income. Now way to hire anyone now. Time to move everything off shore.

The problem is if you tax the rich too much they would just leave which means we get nothing. A lot of companies move their company to Canada and other countries. 

Taxing the rich to death means they will leave and you'll miss them when they're gone. Besides, Government wastes a lot of money they could easily cut back on certain things.

Those that believe they will repatriate money because we cut taxes are foolish.  As are those that think they will push any tax savings onto their employees versus their shareholders.

As for taxing them to death?  Do you not realize that the rich and corporations now pay far less than they did during the 1930s-1980s?  And when was our greatest growth periods?  When the top tax rate was over near 90%.  Further, the loop holes that allow a multibillion company to pay $0 taxes are still on the books. 


And yes, we could cut back on spending.  Quite a bit, actually.  But that's damn hard to do when you have a president that is pushing for a $50 billion wall plus another $50 billion for the military. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
Snoopy said:

The problem is if you tax the rich too much they would just leave which means we get nothing. A lot of companies move their company to Canada and other countries. 

Taxing the rich to death means they will leave and you'll miss them when they're gone. Besides, Government wastes a lot of money they could easily cut back on certain things.

Those that believe they will repatriate money because we cut taxes are foolish.  As are those that think they will push any tax savings onto their employees versus their shareholders.

As for taxing them to death?  Do you not realize that the rich and corporations now pay far less than they did during the 1930s-1980s?  And when was our greatest growth periods?  When the top tax rate was over near 90%.  Further, the loop holes that allow a multibillion company to pay $0 taxes are still on the books. 


And yes, we could cut back on spending.  Quite a bit, actually.  But that's damn hard to do when you have a president that is pushing for a $50 billion wall plus another $50 billion for the military. 

I believe people forgot about Mitt Romeny.  When Mitt Romeny showed his tax returns we all found out that he paid less in taxes then his own maid.  It's crazy how people actually believe the Rich pay taxes the same has the average person on the street.

The crazy part is that we want to spend another 50 billion on a wall and 50 billion on the military when we could put that money and try to improve education level of the country and thus get people to work, creating new jobs, industries and pushing the country forward.

Last edited by Machiavellian - on 31 October 2017

Machiavellian said:
SpokenTruth said:

Those that believe they will repatriate money because we cut taxes are foolish.  As are those that think they will push any tax savings onto their employees versus their shareholders.

As for taxing them to death?  Do you not realize that the rich and corporations now pay far less than they did during the 1930s-1980s?  And when was our greatest growth periods?  When the top tax rate was over near 90%.  Further, the loop holes that allow a multibillion company to pay $0 taxes are still on the books. 


And yes, we could cut back on spending.  Quite a bit, actually.  But that's damn hard to do when you have a president that is pushing for a $50 billion wall plus another $50 billion for the military. 

I believe people forgot about Mitt Romeny.  When Mitt Romeny showed his tax returns we all found out that he paid less in taxes then his own maid.  It's crazy how people actually believe the Rick pay taxes the same has the average person on the street.

The crazy part is that we want to spend another 50 billion on a wall and 50 billion the military when we could put that money and try to improve education level of the country and thus get people work more, creating new job industries and pushing the country forward.

Our priorities as a nation concern me. 



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
Snoopy said:

The problem is if you tax the rich too much they would just leave which means we get nothing. A lot of companies move their company to Canada and other countries. 

Taxing the rich to death means they will leave and you'll miss them when they're gone. Besides, Government wastes a lot of money they could easily cut back on certain things.

Those that believe they will repatriate money because we cut taxes are foolish.  As are those that think they will push any tax savings onto their employees versus their shareholders.

As for taxing them to death?  Do you not realize that the rich and corporations now pay far less than they did during the 1930s-1980s?  And when was our greatest growth periods?  When the top tax rate was over near 90%.  Further, the loop holes that allow a multibillion company to pay $0 taxes are still on the books. 


And yes, we could cut back on spending.  Quite a bit, actually.  But that's damn hard to do when you have a president that is pushing for a $50 billion wall plus another $50 billion for the military. 

1. No one paid 90% tax rate back then. There was a lot of loopholes and more than you think back then. Second, a strong defense in military spending is necessary for not only protection, but it pushes technology further for us and generated us a lot of money.

2. We spend over a hundred billion dollars on illegal immigrants a year as it is. If the wall can stop them from coming in (or at least make it harder) it can benefit us greatly. 50 billion for one year an estimated 150 million a year to maintain can benefit us in the long run.

 3. Other countries don't tax as much on their companies like we do that's why we see a lot of companies building their HQ in other countries to avoid higher taxes. Which means we get nothing at all. 

There is also something called the Laffer curve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqLjyA0hL1s