You were the one that gave the numbers and I gave you a comparison. On the demo I played 10h. Done the one license line, 2 challenge lines and 3 course golden time, plus 4 online races. Challenge 6 had a 1h race that is quite hard to get 1st position.

So by comparison of YOURS number GTS wouldn't have less content than GT2.

You really try to reach everything you can to defend Polyphony, don't you? Stop being so dense. I just gave you a random number that I thought it would be enough to reach the game credits.

Let me define that for you. Finishing a game means reaching the end credits. It's not the same than simply finishing all possible content. An example here: Ratchet and Clank took me 12 to 14 hours to finish the game. Finish all content would involve finishing challenge mode and collecting all stuff, so a good 20 more hours. Can you understand the difference?

You are comparing the 30 hours to reach GT2 credits with simply finishing every last drop of content on GTS. Doing so on GT2 is probably hundreds of hours.

If you indeed played GT2, instead of being just a fan from the recent dire years of weak GT games, there's now way you believe that GTS had more content than GT2.

Nope. Please refer to my threads showing the comparison sales of Halo, GoW, GT and FM. They all show the amount of HW sold at the launch of the game, the quantity sold on the first week, month and LT. The variation on the sales were very minimal against the userbase. Halo 3 sold much much more than Halo 4 on a much much smaller userbase. If we were talking about 30-50% attach ratio one could talk about the userbase being the relevant limitant. When talking about 7% it isn't even close to it. Also FM5 sold more than FM6, with FM5 basically launching to a 0 userbase and FM6 to a 15M userbase, now FM7 releasing to a 30M userbase... guess what, no notable increase in sales with the increased userbase.

Are you really a VGC member? It's a well known fact that sales don't sacel linearly with the userbase. GT3 sold more than GT4. Can we call GT4 a flop now? Launch games have much less competition to deal with.

Compare launch X360 games with launch X1 titles to really make an apple to apples comparison.

All the games you listed suffered decrease in sales while on X360, not because of smaller userbase.

So Sony should probably cancel God of War and GT. They decrease to less than half on their last PS3 games.

Yep on DC and SFV, I think the only reason DC was brought was that even though broke, missing content and having harsh review it had a good increase in sales from 1st week to LT due to the improvements after... from 350k FW, 500k FM to 2,3M LT isn't bad for a game that had critical bashing and launched with crippling online, so word of mouth as good.

The games was ridiculously discounted in a few months. It was like 9 bucks for most of its life. Right now it's just 7 bucks on PSN. And for pete's sake, the game destroyed the studio. That's basically the worst thing a game can do. If it was even close to being mildly succesfull, Evolution studios would still exist.

I don't really plan to keep this discussion going. You have your agenda of blindly defending PD, there's nothing I can do here. Critics and users show a consensus that they are losing quality steadly. GT6 had disappointing sales for the franchise. They have to act and do something before the franchise dies and nobody cares about it anymore. I love the franchise and don't want to see this happening.

If you want to deny facts and be dense, go for it, but with another VGC user.

The last couple of races are all about pit stop planning. Instead of doing the oval again I went for the half hour Interlagos one first. Bloody hard. The incredible boost the AI sometimes get is very real. I get out of the last corner, right behind the one I'm trying to overtake, right in his slipstream for the long straight, and he simply speeds away like my gas pedal is broken. I was 4th for a long time on my first attempt, while 3rd kept increasing the gap on me to 24 sec In the last lap 5th place got a big boost and I could not stop him from passing me, he shot away like a rocket out of the last sharp corner, so got fith.

Second attempt it seemed to go the same, climb to 4th then get stuck. So after the first pit stop I thought, f this, I can cheat too! So I started cutting the first chicane short which makes up about 2 sec per lap. You get a 2.8 to sometimes 8 sec penalty for that. Usually it's closer to the lower end which you can lose during the lap, if you get the max you'll have to drive clean for the next one. After everyone had had their 2nd pit stop I came out in the lead. Then to fend off the boost... Even with the 2 sec cheat, they still closed the gap back up every lap, until finally in the very last corner the AI pushed me off the track lol. Ended in third.

Third time was the charm. Cheat right from the start, and I pushed my pit stops up a lap to have stronger tires at the end (using only softs) Even went as low as to push the AI off the track when they still managed to boost past me. This time after the second round of pit stops was done I had a 10 sec lead. With the shortcut I could keep that lead. However in the last 2 laps I suddenly get heckled by a straggler. One lap behind yet somehow pressing like mad to overtake me. He pushed me a couple times so I decided to move to the side to let him go, but as soon as he passed me he slowed down, moved aside, to let me pass, since I was lapping him. Game logic... With that straggler being a nuisance 2nd place closed to less than 3 sec behind but was too late. Victory, although not a proud one. Exciting race!

It seems to have a lot to do with luck, not ending up with a big gap without anyone to draft behind. Best to pit when there's empty space in front of you. Anyway back to the oval.

Finally! Another 5 attempts and gold on the oval. It also unlocked the king of the ovals trophy after all that, "Drove 500 miles on ovals". The WRX definitely corners better, with that you can make up a little bit of time in the 3rd corner as well.

I tried pitting in lap 10 and lap 11 to have softs for the end without success. Starting on softs and pitting early in lap 9 to switch to mediums worked better, however the first time I ran out of fuel, got unlucky and passed the finish with another 4 seconds on the clock with the AI practically pushing me, so another lap and I only had fuel for 11 more laps.

Next attempt fuel to 12, didn't end up in first after the rest pitted, but managed to get into the slip stream behind 1 and 2 for a long time, then finally managed to pass nr 2, however he screwed me up a lap later allowing nr 1 to get away. Then he spun me out in the last lap for good measure...

Last attempt I pushed really hard in the beginning and with a bit of luck managed to get the lead in lap 9, dove into the pit, fueled for 12 more laps, got out in place 20 but close enough behind the last one to get a bit of boost from drafting. That gave me a 4 sec lead after the leaders went in. I nailed every corner from there on out, the AI managed to slowly close the gap anyway, but fell just short. I made sure to keep him out of my slipstream in the final lap.

Best GT ever :)

I'm going to regret this tomorrow, 3:34 am now, played way to much today. My drive time jumped up to 17 hours from 12...

The game is really trying to teach us to drive clean or to go back to the old rubberbanding habits right? And I don't even think you need to do the clean lap, can't you keep accumulating penalties and crossing the line in first even with a lot of penalty get the gold?

You are being a settler on the game. Probably there will be some guides on the best way to make the races easier, because I don't think it's supposed to be this hard for someone that is quite good, unless they are leveling up a lot because they want that level of challenge because in the MP that is what you may end up facing.

Are you already feeling like "Dick" Dastardly??

I loved Wacky races on the DC. Dick Dastardly all the way!

I think those races are all about not getting a big gap betweenthe opponents, yet with the werid boost in Interlagos I'm not sure how to do it except to wait for a favorable AI configuration. On the oval the AI was quite consistent, so with planning it was possible to beat that.

Perhaps I would be able to do Interlagos the legit way as well if I kept trying and shaving off those milliseconds, yet at half an hour per attempt it's just a bit too long for that one more go feeling like with the 15 minute race. Plus it was a bit overkill to force a 10 sec lead, plenty of room to find a sweet spot. Too bad it's a timed race and the finish time doesn't make much sense, they should have added the total number of laps driven with the time on the scoreboard. The fastest time on the board is 29:59.876, somehow someone crossed the finish line right before the 30 minute timer ran out. So that would be slower average laps than someone who passess it earlier and has to do another lap.

I'm not sure if 'get gold with penalty' still works, I didn't want to risk it. :)

Let's see. I hope it really does. One thing that could turn things completely would be if it becomes big in e-sports. That would be freaking awesome.

I don't think outselling Forza is a big achievement. I'm not absolutely trying to downplay Forza, but GT entries did it on PS3 and right now Forza ends up crippled by poor X1 sales. Outselling GT6 is good, but it only managed to beat it and GT1 in first week sales.

I also don't think it will end up like DC, it at least works. People may wish it had more content, but it's not like you can't play the entire game at all like DC.

It doesn't have more content than these games. GT2, per instance, had several endurances, rally, hundreds of cars, it was a freaking huge game. You would take a good 30 hours to finish every single thing (trust me, I got gold in all licenses, races, except by ONE single license trial. I was a kid, probably should pop it on my PS1 and do it). You are also overeaching a lot by using 2 PS1 games plus a launch title for PS2. Our expectations are much higher nowadays. Can't say nothing about Forza because I didn't played none of them enought.

It looks like it has a great online mode, but it doesn't have anywhere the same amount of single player content than the games above.

I don't think it's like GT5. Nobody said GT5 lacked content, because it was a huge game. The biggest gripe was using PS2 models at the time.

Driveclub is heavily discounted. If it was a success Sony wouldn't have close the studio, I think it is clear that it underperformed. Big budget, big expectations, lots of marketing and a PR disaster. SF5 is a similar disaster.