You were the one that gave the numbers and I gave you a comparison. On the demo I played 10h. Done the one license line, 2 challenge lines and 3 course golden time, plus 4 online races. Challenge 6 had a 1h race that is quite hard to get 1st position.

So by comparison of YOURS number GTS wouldn't have less content than GT2.

Nope. Please refer to my threads showing the comparison sales of Halo, GoW, GT and FM. They all show the amount of HW sold at the launch of the game, the quantity sold on the first week, month and LT. The variation on the sales were very minimal against the userbase. Halo 3 sold much much more than Halo 4 on a much much smaller userbase. If we were talking about 30-50% attach ratio one could talk about the userbase being the relevant limitant. When talking about 7% it isn't even close to it. Also FM5 sold more than FM6, with FM5 basically launching to a 0 userbase and FM6 to a 15M userbase, now FM7 releasing to a 30M userbase... guess what, no notable increase in sales with the increased userbase.

All the games you listed suffered decrease in sales while on X360, not because of smaller userbase.

Yep on DC and SFV, I think the only reason DC was brought was that even though broke, missing content and having harsh review it had a good increase in sales from 1st week to LT due to the improvements after... from 350k FW, 500k FM to 2,3M LT isn't bad for a game that had critical bashing and launched with crippling online, so word of mouth as good.

Yep, like smaller but more balanced and less repetitive.

But one can hope PD give in a little on the SP campaign and make a free DLC with a career mode sucked from GT6 and/or 5, shouldn't need much dev time to just code those conditions.

I learned I had 10h of driving on the demo, and have done like 10-20% of the content. That is why I was surprised you cleared so much in 20h. But yes, after you are used to it, it will be easier.

I haven't done any online races yet which I did do in the demo and only spend like 15 minutes in VR before starting the campaign to unlock it all first. So it's pretty much all spend on the campaign this time. And yes the experience from the demo and extensive playing of GT1 to GT6 helps a lot ofcourse. The instant restarts, decent load times, and no need to reload in track experience sections shaves off a lot of time as well. If it would takes almost a minute to load a 2 minute race, then there's your padding... WRC comes to mind, horrible load times for less than 2 minute stages :/ At some point I felt like I was staring at loading screens more than playing the game.

The game is very polished, everything is fast and responsive, it's such a joy to play compared to the slow menus and long setup procedures of GT5 and GT6. That was my primary issue with GT on ps3. It would take almost 2 minutes to join a lobby and get all the loading done, then having to adjust your car to fit in the regulations, all the time watching the race start timer countdown knowing you would probably miss it. Then have to find another lobby again...

Looks like you haven't even played the game. The campaign is drastically different from forza 6.

Makes sense. But anyway it is possible that most people will take more than 50h to gold all SP. I thought the load time was faster, but still from main menu to enter a challenge or license takes between 30s and 1min, but I haven't measured, restart is very fast though.

The only online I played on GT5 and 6 was the daily and other eventes, no PVP or other interactive MP. But I actually found the MP in GTS acceptable, still a little pissed with all the mayhem some suckers caused.

Hmm it looks like I found my achilles heel, after 90 minutes can't get better than 4th on stage 8.6, an oval ofcourse, 15 minute race on blue moon speedway. I get to 4th and then can't get any closer, 3 or 4 sec behind nr 3 for the rest of the race.

I just checked out a video of someone who beat it and I guess a bit of luck with the opposition, more agressive driving (hitting cars in corners) pit early to take advantage of any rubberbanding and manual shifting to brake is a way to get ahead. A steering wheel and pedals would help as well on ovals for smoother input, don't have one.

The field is already seperating on the online. Scoreboards at challenges already have people with SR rating up to S and down to E. You start at B so all the bad apples have already sunk :)

Stay strong on the challenge. From my experience on the 2 races of season 6 I would advise you to antecipate all pits as most as possible because it seems that the adversaries get better at the end and the time lost on pit after hurts more.

I'll try it with the Subaru WRX next time, seems that one is favored for this challenge. There's also suggestions to stretch fuel use with the fuel map and don't pit until lap 12 then change to softs for the second part (it's 21 laps) I guess I can try both strategies, soft first, pit at 9, then switch to medium, or mediums first and pit at 12. I've been pitting at lap 11 and racing on mediums all through. You'll also need a bit of luck to to have someone bridge the gap for you by drafting. I've been trying to draft push the nr 4 car closer to the nr 3 to bridge the gap yet I accidentally hit him in the corner which lost all the time we made up. Playing co-op with the AI, that's a first in a racing game for me :)

The ones in stage 6 were a lot easier now after the demo experience. Interlagos, pit straight away and easily win the race after. The 1 hour one I stuck to pitting every 6 laps, full tank, on the last one cut fuelling short. I used medium tires there, that was fast enough. In the demo I tried to place my last pit stop closer to the end by stretching to 7 laps per stop first, then use softs. However they boosted past me doing that. This time I had a comfortable lead, yet still one of them got miraculously faster near the end. He was in 3rd place behind when he started accelerating, too late to catch up, he still zoomed past 2nd place on the map and made up another 5 seconds on me in the last lap.

The AI is interesting to put it mildly :) I've gotten better at fending them off luckily, They still occasionaly try to push a bit yet now I know what to expect I can prevent them from spinning me out. Anyway there's 2 sorts of AI in the game, the on rails kind for overtaking challenges where you are not allowed to hit and the competitive kind that will play dirty now and then.

When are you getting the game, join the fun!

I'm short on money so I'll take a little time to join =[

The game gave us the hint about pitstop planning, let's see how that will show up on the multi-player endurance races.

The last couple of races are all about pit stop planning. Instead of doing the oval again I went for the half hour Interlagos one first. Bloody hard. The incredible boost the AI sometimes get is very real. I get out of the last corner, right behind the one I'm trying to overtake, right in his slipstream for the long straight, and he simply speeds away like my gas pedal is broken. I was 4th for a long time on my first attempt, while 3rd kept increasing the gap on me to 24 sec In the last lap 5th place got a big boost and I could not stop him from passing me, he shot away like a rocket out of the last sharp corner, so got fith.

Second attempt it seemed to go the same, climb to 4th then get stuck. So after the first pit stop I thought, f this, I can cheat too! So I started cutting the first chicane short which makes up about 2 sec per lap. You get a 2.8 to sometimes 8 sec penalty for that. Usually it's closer to the lower end which you can lose during the lap, if you get the max you'll have to drive clean for the next one. After everyone had had their 2nd pit stop I came out in the lead. Then to fend off the boost... Even with the 2 sec cheat, they still closed the gap back up every lap, until finally in the very last corner the AI pushed me off the track lol. Ended in third.

Third time was the charm. Cheat right from the start, and I pushed my pit stops up a lap to have stronger tires at the end (using only softs) Even went as low as to push the AI off the track when they still managed to boost past me. This time after the second round of pit stops was done I had a 10 sec lead. With the shortcut I could keep that lead. However in the last 2 laps I suddenly get heckled by a straggler. One lap behind yet somehow pressing like mad to overtake me. He pushed me a couple times so I decided to move to the side to let him go, but as soon as he passed me he slowed down, moved aside, to let me pass, since I was lapping him. Game logic... With that straggler being a nuisance 2nd place closed to less than 3 sec behind but was too late. Victory, although not a proud one. Exciting race!

It seems to have a lot to do with luck, not ending up with a big gap without anyone to draft behind. Best to pit when there's empty space in front of you. Anyway back to the oval.