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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo Switch 2GB or 4GB?

fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

I never said it was free, but considering how cheap the post-process stuff can be, and the fact that most Wii U games used at least some kind of AA, it seems weird to omit it for some games. I mean, even if you have to slightly cut back in other areas, going without AA in a 720p game isn't a good look.

The cut backs aren't at all "slight" when you have to hit an aggressive target of 16.6 ms per frame ... 

Just spending 3 ms on a rendering pass means you've already blown 18% of your frame time budget ... 

There is a good reason behind why software engineers make these trade offs ... 

But almost every dev other than Nintendo employs AA on pretty much all hardware from Xbox 360 upwards, even in 60fps games like COD.



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curl-6 said:

But almost every dev other than Nintendo employs AA on pretty much all hardware from Xbox 360 upwards, even in 60fps games like COD.

COD games were usually sub-HD on the last gen HD twins so the teams at Activision traded in resolution for framerate and some anti-aliasing ... 

Again, games make these different trade-offs all the time ...



fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

But almost every dev other than Nintendo employs AA on pretty much all hardware from Xbox 360 upwards, even in 60fps games like COD.

COD games were usually sub-HD on the last gen HD twins so the teams at Activision traded in resolution for framerate and some anti-aliasing ... 

Again, games make these different trade-offs all the time ...

I'm aware that graphics are about tradeoffs, but no AA is a severe tradeoff. The vast majority of games on 360-or-better hardware use some form of it. Even a simple and cheap post-process solution like the one used in 3D World/Captain Toad would have made Mario Kart 8 look much better.



fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

But almost every dev other than Nintendo employs AA on pretty much all hardware from Xbox 360 upwards, even in 60fps games like COD.

COD games were usually sub-HD on the last gen HD twins so the teams at Activision traded in resolution for framerate and some anti-aliasing ... 

Again, games make these different trade-offs all the time ...

To be fair CoD didn't always maintain 60fps last gen though, it would often drop down to the low 40's.
On the Xbox 360 CoD would usually employ 2x MSAA, which helps make up for the resolution deficit.

I would personally rather 2x cheap AA than nothing at all, even if the resolution is slightly decreased to make up for that.
CoD would run at 960x544 on the PS3 and 1040x608 on the 360, so it was far from being "HD" but still looked acceptable because there was at-least some AA.

If you had a Switch game with a native resolution of 1280x720. I would be happy if they cut back on the resolution so it was 1024x576 but then throw more AA at the problem.
The goal is to make a terrible resolution like 720P look it's best.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
captain carot said:
So, RAM:
-It's quite ceap. Well, if you use standard stuff as Nintendo did. Now, 1600MHz leaves as with 12.8, 19.2 or 25.6GB/s depending on the memory interface.


Don't forget Delta colour compression which gives it more bandwidth than the raw numbers implies.
The only other console with a similar technology is Playstation 4 Pro.

Plus, the Switch has a "mode" that developers can toggle which drops the memory speed down to 1333mhz, which Eurogamer did touch upon.

I'm not forgetting it. But you can hardly put out a specific number for color compression.

And, i was just refering to RAM config and bandwidth and what it might tell about the amount of RAM.

 

It should be obvious though that handling resources well is a key element.

That's what people have to understand if referring to GFLOP/s or GB/s that it's at least as much about efficiency as raw numbers.



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captain carot said:

I'm not forgetting it. But you can hardly put out a specific number for color compression.

And, i was just refering to RAM config and bandwidth and what it might tell about the amount of RAM.

 

It should be obvious though that handling resources well is a key element.

That's what people have to understand if referring to GFLOP/s or GB/s that it's at least as much about efficiency as raw numbers.

But we do have a round-a-bout guestimate thanks to Anandtech.
25% for Maxwell. 20% for Pascal.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

2GB is the same amount Wii U had. You'd think for a more powerful system, more RAM would be helpful.

Then again it's Nintendo, they do often cut corners.



Thing is, RAM is cheap. Those 2GB DDR3 already where cheap back then. And, Wii U's weakspot was the CPU.
Never understood why they didn't go with a quadcore and maybe a higher clock.
PPC750 architecture was never intended for high core clocks, but up to 1.6GHz seems quite reasonable as well.
That would have been 30-70% moreCPU power depending on how well a game scales with more cores.



Pemalite said:
bonzobanana said:

You don't get to read many completely one-sided and hugely biased comments like yours on this site. Frankly you are utterly clueless. Each time you answer with some ridiculous belief that the Switch will perform well above its specification. You need to step back and try to get a grip on reality, Nintendo isn't your friend its a commercial business its doesn't need such ridiculous loyalty and bias.  

Oh giggity. Personal attacks. Here is an idea, have an intellectual discussion first (If you can), leave the drama at the gate.

I constantly ridicule Nintendo's anemic hardware, I also haven't owned a Nintendo device in years, so there is certainly zero loyalty or bias, if anything I am more Xbox Leaning with a primary preference for the PC. Master Race and all that.
I also will not be buying the Switch because it is underpowered, overpriced and I dislike the form factor.

And when I am comparing the Switch, I am comparing it to Graphics Core Next 1.0 and AMD's older Very-Long-Instruction-Word based architectures, it's common knowledge nVidia's Maxwell and Pascal beats AMD around in efficiency. - That difference in efficiency is almost embarassing when compared to older Architectures like what is found in the Wii U (Which is VLIW).

Even before the performance downgrades, the Switch was between the Wii U and Xbox One in terms of performance, with the downclocks, it's still in between the Wii U and Xbox One, it's just a little closer to the Wii U, this is something I have stated multiple times. - If that is being "Loyal" and that I need to "Get a grip on reality". - Then I simply don't care about your opinion.


You have gone totally over the top with the claim effiiciency improvements and we are already getting a good idea of the Switch performance level by what we have seen. There are compromises made with mobility chipsets. It certainly looks like the docked performance boost for the gpu is just going to be resolution and the core game is just going to be based on portable performance rather than any effort to make 2 distinct modes and perhaps cartridge sizes will dictate this.

I've a feeling once the hype dies down we may see that indeed the humble wii u actually can perform to a higher level than Switch in some areas. That 70GB/s 32MB of edram memory which gave the wii u a significant performance boost graphically may actually help deliver some surprises against the shared memory of Switch with more minimal cache memory. 

It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds again. Most people are saying how much better Zelda looks on Switch but as some detailed comparisons have shown its not all one way there are advantages on the wii u too some big advantages with lighting effects and shadows. Whether this continues to the final retail games is uncertain.

I still believe in the Eurogamer spec based on the speech to developers rather than the Foxconn leak that could be stress tests etc while manufacturing. Certainly looking at the performance of many games it almost feels like the eurogamer spec is too high and perhaps the max mhz of the gpu while docked will be lower at retail.

Surely its in Nintendo's interest to impress us with the games on a technical level but most look so poor and are struggling to show distance between the wii u. It really feels like there is a bad surprise coming with regard performance with the Switch. Worse even than are current already low expectations. 



Miyamotoo said:
bonzobanana said:

There is no confirmation of that surprisingly at this stage. Nintendo announced the 2GB memory of the wii u quite freely but with Switch they aren't being as clear. It's also higher than the more powerful competition using the same chipset and rumours also suggested it was originally going to be 2GB but the retail version would match the development kit with 4GB. I'm not totally convinced and won't believe it until Nintendo states 4GB or we see it in the tear-down. It just seems too much for a console of this performance level. With the Nvidia shield box only having 3GB yet meant to be a gaming centric box supporting 4k and hdr  and yet the lower spec Switch has more memory all of which needs to be powered by battery in portable mode and lowering runtime it just makes no sense at all. The Switch has its 4 main cpu's running at half the speed of the Shield and doesn't feature the other 4 little arm chips at all yet needs even more memory?  It's a strange design choice if nothing else. It made total sense the dev kit had 4GB as headroom for developing and a final retail version would be down to 2GB to extend battery life and reduce costs. In a few weeks we will know anyway. 

Only reason they reveal Wii U RAM is because Wii U had more RAM than PS3/Xbox360, but Switch with 4 GB will again have twice less RAM than XB1/PS4 so its not something to brag about compared to Wii U vs PS3/Xbox360.

Evre believable rumour said 4GB, actually I don't recall that any rumour suggested 2GB of RAM. More RAM is always better and prices of RAM today are very low.

No the original design was 2GB only the developer versions were 4GB but then it was stated 4GB was expected for retail versions.

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/nintendo-switch-ram-specs-leaked-insider-say-more-ram-wii-u-565975

If this March launch is a soft launch just to milk early adopters and they always planned for a signficant price drop later then a lower price for manufacturing of 2GB will clearly help to maintain a profit margin. Clearly it would never be as cheap to make 4GB compared to 2GB in reality you have to pay more and RAM is always a signficant cost on a logic board after the main chipset or even sometimes above it.

Knowing the surprises that have come out in the past with Nintendo products this wouldn't surprise me. I'm not saying it isn't 4GB but as Nintendo decisions go making the Switch 2GB doesn't seem a particularly bad one especially when your actual games come on cartridges anyway its not like its directly comparable to a console with an optical drive.

I would of thought it quite rare for a development kit and final retail hardware to have the same memory capacity. Makes optimising games to use all memory difficult if you have other background resources due to game development also taking memory.