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Forums - Gaming Discussion - PS4Pro was made to compete with PC - Sony Exec.

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ICStats said:

Again... he's not saying it's to appeal to every PC gamer, but to those who contribute to a mid-generation slump.  lawl indeed at all the strawman arguments.  Reasons to own a PC are not up for debate.  It's also OK to own both a PC and a console, and game on the one that gives you the better experience.

The only thing up for debate about what the Sony exec has said is wether or not Sony's data showing there is a mid-generation slump due to graphics quality is correct.

Exactly... "there’s a dip mid-console lifecycle... We wanted to keep those people "

The point about the mid-gen slump is that Sony is/was comfortable with their competitiveness vs. PC at start of gen...
Obviously that didn't mean nobody was interested in PC at the time of PS4 entry, it means that Sony was relatively more competitive in early-gen,
and they want to be able to draw an EQUIVALENT segment thru-out lifetime of console gen (AKA remove the mid-gen slump), thus PS4 NEO (Pro).
They aren't forseeing drawing a LARGER segment now than they did at beginnign of gen, they are just aiming to maintain that segment (remove slump).



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Captain_Yuri said:
mutantsushi said:

They are completely consistent with what he actually said:

"We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality].
So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro – and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement.”

 

The issue is that compared to PC's hardware, its not exactly impressive...

Don't get me wrong, ps4Pro, for $400 is reallyyyyyyyyy epic value and the techniques it uses for upscaling is quite interesting and awesome. But it is not impressive against PC hardware (but of course, PC hardware costs more).

Again, as they spell out, they are aiming to remove the SLUMP, not increase their competitiveness beyond what they had at early gen.
Your critique here would apply equally to when PS4 was originally introduced, right?  That means it's beyond the scope of the "slump".
If their goal was addressing power-no-matter-the-cost, then they wouldn't be talking about a slump vs early gen,
they would be talking about increasing their target market above the original peak, rather than reducing a slump following that peak.
You're ignoring some pretty crucial parts of what they're saying,
and then assuming that not spelling out the limitations of their market (price) means they must mean unlimited price/market.
Since you yourself easily show why the latter interpretation doesn't work, perhaps you should adjust your reading of their statement?
Anybody but a literalist who ultra-focuses on some narrow info they personally are heavily invested in doesn't have a problem seeing that.
Actual human communication requires flexibility, not trying to out-lawyer the speaker into proving them wrong for something they didn't want to say.



I think the word "compete" is a bit misconstrued here. It's not about converting PC gamers to console gamers. It's not like there is anyone actually deciding between console and PC and if someone is actually in the position of deciding, the performance will not be the first or most important factor in that decision.

What Sony is doing here is not competing against PC but competing for the attention of PC gamers. For a PC player the drawbacks of a console are clear and for them performance is a big one. PS4 Pro is not made to make them switch to console completely but to entice them to at least try it out and be able to have a console experience that is a lot closer to PC than the OG PS4 is. It's basically a step towards them so they have a chance to experience the great console exclusives without the expensive and exhausting eye cancer treatments afterwards.

That's why the PS4 Pro was a good idea and why it will succeed and will be more enticing to PC players than the OG PS4 ever was.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Captain_Yuri said:
Slimebeast said:

I'm saying they don't offer performance in relation to the price. If you have followed the PC discussion here many members have expressed how they feel the GTX 1070 is very expensive. Especially compared with what the 970 offered in last gen. Not to speak of the 1080 which is crazy expensive. Like you say, many people have decided to wait, because they're sitting with ther 970s, 290s and 980s realizing that the performance increase with the new GPUs just isn't worth the cost. And what you'll get on screen will not look dramatically better.

I'm asking for a sense of proportions.

There's a big difference if a high-end PC (GTX 1080) is 4 times faster than the console you're playing on (PS4) or if it's twice as fast (PS4 Pro). That's the point of Mr House when he talks about PS4 Pro competing with PC - the gap is not necessarily eliminated, but it's much smaller now. He didn't say "beat" PC, he says "compete".

For many people it is about how big the gap is. The question of how much better will PC gaming look? There are definitely going to be a lot of people who think "oh, the Playstation 4 Pro is almost on par with these cheap gaming PCs for $600-700, and it's no longer an ocean of difference like it was compared with a regular PS4, so I think I'm gonna stay in the Playstation echosystem especially since it's only $400".

I have owned a R9 290 since early 2014 and I've waited for a long time for the 14nm GPUs, but since I'm an AMD guy I will wait for Vega. I expect it to be on par with a GTX 1080, but I also feel that it won't be that huge of an upgrade I would like it to be for $600 (less than twice the performance of a 290), and I also feel that it won't totally "blow away" the PS4 Pro. It just doesn't.

Even compared with the next best PC GPU, that still costs over 800 freaking Euro where I live (over $900), the Playstation 4 Pro looks very very nice.

In relation to the price? Why are we talking about price? Andrew House didn't say anything about the price. They said the "highest performance and highest visuals." And the only thing thats expensive about the 1070 is the terrible valued founders edition.

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-official-msrp-299-nonreference-models-retail-329349/

https://www.google.ca/search?q=1070+msrp&oq=1070+msrp&aqs=chrome..69i57.2638j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

970 MSRP is $329

1070 MSRP is $379

Unless you get a founders edition which no one is gonna get cause its stupidly priced and doesn't offer anything. There are plenty of other editions to choose from. And yea, he said compete but he also said it "We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]." He didn't say, for $400 or similary priced PC. He said the PS4Pro will give the people who are looking to upgrade to PC For the Highest Visuals and Performance which its not good at either. If someone is looking to PC for the best performance, PC has it. I have no idea what does price have to do with anything considering he didn't say anything about the price. 

You do realize that a $250 1060 beats the Pro handly right? Its not exactly hard to Google and look at the performance numbers and see that the ps4Pro is compromising even at 1080p where as with PC, you get maxed settings, 1080p, 60fps. And those looking to upgrade knows about the PC prices as well as the performance numbers.

And how does it not "blow away" the ps4 or is twice as fast as a Ps4Pro? The ps4 can't even do 1080p 60fps max settings that a 970 can do with RoTR. And a 1080 more than doubles than framerate of the 970. Did you even do any research before posting your comments?

Prices for products is different everywhere you go. In some places its cheaper, in some places, its more expensive. It is silly to even compare "Oh where I live its blah." The most solid pricing comparison is to compare the MSRP and in the US cause thats where majority of the prices seem to happen.

It's like talking to a wall. You just don't seem to understand the concept of proportions, everything is just black and white.



Why compete with something that is dead? PC gaming has been dying since 1989.



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mutantsushi said:
Captain_Yuri said:

The issue is that compared to PC's hardware, its not exactly impressive...

Don't get me wrong, ps4Pro, for $400 is reallyyyyyyyyy epic value and the techniques it uses for upscaling is quite interesting and awesome. But it is not impressive against PC hardware (but of course, PC hardware costs more).

Again, as they spell out, they are aiming to remove the SLUMP, not increase their competitiveness beyond what they had at early gen.
Your critique here would apply equally to when PS4 was originally introduced, right?  That means it's beyond the scope of the "slump".
If their goal was addressing power-no-matter-the-cost, then they wouldn't be talking about a slump vs early gen,
they would be talking about increasing their target market above the original peak, rather than reducing a slump following that peak.
You're ignoring some pretty crucial parts of what they're saying,
and then assuming that not spelling out the limitations of their market (price) means they must mean unlimited price/market.
Since you yourself easily show why the latter interpretation doesn't work, perhaps you should adjust your reading of their statement?
Anybody but a literalist who ultra-focuses on some narrow info they personally are heavily invested in doesn't have a problem seeing that.
Actual human communication requires flexibility, not trying to out-lawyer the speaker into proving them wrong for something they didn't want to say.

Umm... Its not exactly my problem to interpret what he is saying the right way. Its his job, as the CEO to ensure what he says is interpreted the same way with everyone that reads it which it really doesn't. There are many people that interpret what he said the same way I interpreted it and that is not limited to vgchartz. Otherwise, this thread wouldn't be this long and the only one that would be arguing is me. Its not my job to put words in his sentences that it isn't there. If he really meant to say compete against PCs for that price point or only to shrinken the gap, than he should have just said so but he didn't.

And they didn't say they are aiming to remove the SLUMP and not increase their competitiveness beyond what they had at early gen. They said that "We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. 

So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro – and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement.”

Which, the way I see it means that they are trying to keep the people from upgrading to PC by giving them the very best and very highest performance quailty which they are trying to achieve via PS4Pro and a large graphical approach to game improvement. Where does it say they don't want to increase their competitiveness beyond what they had at early gen?



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

LOL While doing that Sony opened for the door for Microsoft to 1up them on the way to trying to stop their gamers from jumping ship to PC. There is no stopping that. Ill be picking up the scorpio.



He says:
“I saw some data that really influenced me,” he explained. “It suggested that there’s a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that’s obviously where it’s to be had.
"We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro – and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement.”

So you want to believe "those people" has nothing do with the mid-cycle dip he discusses? Why does he lead with the dip then?
I mean, as he spells out, this strategy was a result of looking at sales data, seeing a dip mid-console lifecycle.
You want to extract some wording from the context of mid-cycle dip, when the dip in data was exactly the starting point.
"Keeping those people" they lose in the dip means the people they potentially "had" at the start of the gen.
Not attracting people they never had at the start of the gen.    You can't keep what you never had.
Those people were never in their eco-system, and thus would never affect any "dip".

But hey, if it's not your responsibility to want/try to understand the speaker, so you win, I guess.



Slimebeast said:
Captain_Yuri said:

In relation to the price? Why are we talking about price? Andrew House didn't say anything about the price. They said the "highest performance and highest visuals." And the only thing thats expensive about the 1070 is the terrible valued founders edition.

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-970-official-msrp-299-nonreference-models-retail-329349/

https://www.google.ca/search?q=1070+msrp&oq=1070+msrp&aqs=chrome..69i57.2638j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

970 MSRP is $329

1070 MSRP is $379

Unless you get a founders edition which no one is gonna get cause its stupidly priced and doesn't offer anything. There are plenty of other editions to choose from. And yea, he said compete but he also said it "We wanted to keep those people within our eco-system by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]." He didn't say, for $400 or similary priced PC. He said the PS4Pro will give the people who are looking to upgrade to PC For the Highest Visuals and Performance which its not good at either. If someone is looking to PC for the best performance, PC has it. I have no idea what does price have to do with anything considering he didn't say anything about the price. 

You do realize that a $250 1060 beats the Pro handly right? Its not exactly hard to Google and look at the performance numbers and see that the ps4Pro is compromising even at 1080p where as with PC, you get maxed settings, 1080p, 60fps. And those looking to upgrade knows about the PC prices as well as the performance numbers.

And how does it not "blow away" the ps4 or is twice as fast as a Ps4Pro? The ps4 can't even do 1080p 60fps max settings that a 970 can do with RoTR. And a 1080 more than doubles than framerate of the 970. Did you even do any research before posting your comments?

Prices for products is different everywhere you go. In some places its cheaper, in some places, its more expensive. It is silly to even compare "Oh where I live its blah." The most solid pricing comparison is to compare the MSRP and in the US cause thats where majority of the prices seem to happen.

It's like talking to a wall. You just don't seem to understand the concept of proportions, everything is just black and white.

Or Mr House could have just made what he said more clear and direct instead of leaving his comments so open to interpretations.

I understand what you are the other dude are trying to say. They put the ps4Pro in the position so that upgrading to a PC doesn't seem as big compared to ps4 vs PC. But to me, that's not what House said because its not my job to read between the lines or put the words there which aren't there. He is the CEO of gods sakes, he knows say things that are direct and clear. But he didn't so we are now in this situation.



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

S.T.A.G.E. said:
LOL While doing that Sony opened for the door for Microsoft to 1up them on the way to trying to stop their gamers from jumping ship to PC. There is no stopping that. Ill be picking up the scorpio.

Dude, where have you been? I haven't been having much arguments since you disappeared behind VGC scene.

There's not that much interesting people to hate on... anyway, gimme your opinion on this whole mid gen refresh debacle.