Dulfite said:
the-pi-guy said:
Socialism is not the issue, regardless of your definition of "socialism".
Racism, and all the other issues can come out of people regardless of whether socialism is part of it or not.
Except God doesn't come from religion. Religion comes from God.
Even if I don't believe in you, that doesn't mean you cease to exist. Suppose for whatever reason, that God didn't reveal himself to man, and we developed without knowing anything about God. What would that world look like?
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Well, that's an interesting question and perspective! I am a Christian and God has time and time again revealed HIMSELF to show HIS deep love for us, but I suppose if HE didn't do that, and we didn't know him at all, and therefore nobody had any kind of religion, that the world would be in chaos. What is the point to adhearing to any ethical or moral code if there is no life after death? If there are no eternal consequences, what is the point of anything?
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The point is that there are other people. I can safely assume that the other people are very much like me. They feel good when they are loved, angry when they are wronged, sad when they experience loss, etc. From this basis, I can empathize with other human beings. Having experienced hurt and pain, I wouldn't wish it on anyone else, and try to avoid causing it in so much as possible. When I do cause others pain, I regret it. Not because I'm after some sort of reward, but because I know how it feels.
If you're only doing something because you believe god is telling you to, then you are neither moral nor ethical. You are a trained puppy who is doing tricks to earn rewards or avoid punishment. This is not morality, this is obedience. Morality requires thoughtful examination of your actions and how they influence others. "I shouldn't do this because a book told me not to" is not an example of morality.
Frankly, this kind of view is horrifying. People keep saying that if we eliminate religion there will be other random reasons for wars, but I don't think that's true. Religion is special because of its demand for obedience. Once you truly believe that a god will grant you eternal life for doing what he wants, then that opens the door for other people to manipulate you. If someone convinces you that they know what god wants better than you, and that god wants you to blow yourself up in a nightclub, then you'd do it. That's why religion is dangerous.
Dr.Vita said:
A world without religion wouldn't work. Using the religion as a reason to start a war is only an excuse by human. And if there were no religion people would find new excuses to start a war. War has nothing to do with religion (I am talking about Christianity). Furthermore there would be no values and standards in a world without religion. You could do everything you want in a world without religion because you have nothing to regret (for instance killing or stealing).
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The thing is, most people don't want to start wars. Most people want to live their lives, have food to eat, people they care about, and so on. Most people don't want to get shot or maimed.
The people who stand to benefit from wars need some reason to convince otherwise decent people to kill eachother for no personal gain. One of the most effective tools of manipulating people to fight for you is convincing them that the god they've been taught is infallible wants them to. Taking away this tool wouldn't stop wars entirely (we still have nationalism after all), but it would greatly reduce the abilities of war mongers. There is a good reason that religion is used so often to incite violence instead of other methods. Because it's really fucking effective.
If you think that you could do whatever you want in a world without religion, I am honestly horrified. Far more fucked up and disturbing is the fact that you included killing in the category of "everything you want". I don't believe in god. I've killed every person I've wanted to kill. That happens to be 0 people. Because I am capable of compassion, empathy, and respect. If that's not enough reason not to kill somebody, then that's really fucked up.
And just for the record, violent crimes are far less prevalent in secular countries, and even in more secular states in the US. Atheists are severely underrepresented in prison.