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Forums - Politics Discussion - The islamisation of Sweden

As someone who doesn't care much for any of Abrahamic religions, I view this as case of Europe's short memory about how long it's been in some sort of war with Islam and for how long one or the other Islamic empire tried to conquer it - answer is, since the 7th century.

War, war never changes.



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97alexk said:
Eagle367 said:
97alexk said:
deskpro2k3 said:

This has almost nothing to do with ISIS, a little bit does. If you see the video, you see islam in action, not isis. Mosques everywhere getting more power, recruiting for ISIS. i dont say all muslims are ISIS, im against ISLAM, not actually muslims who can behave like the rest of us ofc. Most muslims are not assholes, but my point stands, there is still a big group that is extreme islamists who are not with ISIS

Islamist is a term coined to link islam more with terrorism and if you supposedly follow islamist teachings, your a terrorist, but if you follow islamic teachings, they preach peace and moderation in all things. You literally cant link actual Islam with extremism and war and terrorism. Islam is derived from salam which means peace, muslims actually say 'May peace be on you' as a greeting each and everytime, like americans say 'hi'.

The word islam means submission to allah. As in finding peace when submitting to allah.thats why alot of people mistake it for ''peace''.  islam is not peace. Peace doesnt come from religion. Peace is a whole other thing.


Actually Islam means submission to Allah while maintaining peace not acquiring peace by submitting. You've confused it



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Puppyroach said:

97alexk said:

 About 1% ? No, way way way more are member of islam. Islam ideology is not a religion of peace as media wants you to tell. I know you said its also violence.

Here: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

Thats the quaran, go under the section 2:191-193. Thats what the quaran teaches. Radical christian party? you mean sweden democrats? that actually care about our country? They had some radical members, but Sweden democrats politcs are needed in this self destructive behaviour sweden is in right now. Im mostly against all religion, but christanity is atleast been a long time in sweden, even though i also think its bad. Islam though is new. Yeah, let a christian majority merge  with islam. What could possibly go wrong. You think sweden is succesfull because of immigration? if that would be the case we would be rich as fu** right about now, but no. Our own financial minister wanted to lend money now, for the huge immigration crisis. No more houses and beds for the refugees to sleep in. Most refugees are muslims. At the end of 2015 it will be estimated 200 000 immigrants will have come in only in 2015. Yes that will surely make sweden rich and more cultural. Multiculturism has failed. Sweden, south africa, and in USA, it has failed at many levels. And the immigrant filled suburbs in sweden are growing, and there are going to be more conflicts in these neighbourhoods, Just as rosengård, or rinkeby. Sweden rape has also gone up, and statistics show that muslims are the majorty behind it. There are mutiple articles about this. If you want to look through all options to prevent rape and crime. you have to take this into account. In my view, anyone who denies this, is the biggot

Well, according to the governmental board for support of religious communities (nämnden för statligt stöd till trossamfund), muslim communities has about 110000 members. However, about 450000 people come from countries with mainly muslim religion but those are also often christian minorities that flee the countries.

Quoting ANY religious text is bound to fail, since religious texts in themselves are contradictory by their very nature. The bible is in a lot of ways way worse, since it consists of the old testament (which is a horrible book).

And I am not talking about the Swedish democrats (a party that up until 1995 was a nazi party mind you). I am talking abut the Christian Democrats that use chritianity to guide their policies. So you have had religious doctrine in the majority coalition for 8 years, but it hasn´t been of muslim origin.

We actually have excellent examples what happens when you have strong restrictions on immigration. Look at our neighbur country of Finland. They have huge unemployment, the pension system is all but drained and they have had stagnant growth for most of the 21st century.

Yes, we have problem with rape, and it is a serious problem that is not adressed properly. But the worst rapist in swedish history is a man born in Umeå of christian descent, where I come from. The worst mass murderes in swedish history are all born christian. Do we therefore blame that religion? No, we should never drop to such low levels in society. We have experiences from all of the 20th century what happens when you apply your distaste for a few people´s action, on a whole group.


So why doesn't sweden accept immigrants from places like Poland/Ukraine/China etc.  These people will fit right in and within 2 generations you won't act or behave any different from your average swede.  No extreme ideology will exist.  

 

But take in muslims from extremely religious countries and they don't integrate, they preserve their own culture and they don't want to merge into sweden.  They're very religious too.  Let's face it Christianity is dying and will be gone in 200 years max.  Nobody in europe will believe it and will just want to live a truly free life.  

 

But islam will still be there and these people will be very different still.  they will still believe in a warlord that forced their ancestors to believe in Islam out of fear.  And they won't blend into society.  

 

The sad thing is it won't end well.  I've studied history and this is what happens.  If you immigrate to a different people's land you better integrate and become them after a few generations and not try and get your ideology to take over it.  

 

If you last too long and stay too different you end up causing a war.  Look at the Jews.  Countless cities over the last thousand years they immigrated too,  didn't blend in and become their own ethnic minority.  They were too successful and as they grew in numbers and wealth the locals get pissed and boot them out.  Look up the history of Jews in Warsaw.  It's happened so often.  

 

Now muslims in European countries.  If any of them get to the point where the Muslims feel they can transition the country democratically into a Muslim nation they will try.  And due to the differing birth rates smaller nations like sweden,  Belgium etc will have this problem if they keep accepting immigrants.  

 

So they will try and the indigenous (probably atheist by then)  people will fight back.  A civil war and it will end with either a genocide or all muslims being forced to flee.  

 

We've grown up in a fairly religiously peaceful time by European standards over the last 2,000 years but we forget how often massive religious wars have taken place be it between Catholic and protestant or christian and muslim.  

 

It will happen unless the new wave of atheism manages to spread to muslims.  Because a people free from made up religion's that remove freedoms and rights vs religious people looking to impose it will not end well.  



97alexk said:

As i see it, it is violent. Aswell are other religions.

You have established that there are violent people who are religious. The real question is if there is any cause and effect relationship. One question is whether or not the violence stem from their religious beliefs or from their inherent human nature.



I don't agree that Sweden (or Norway) is being ruined by Islam, but here in Sweden, people sure aren't fond of taking up or trying to discuss social issues or political issues that might be deemed controversial.
The index finger and racist/sexist label comes roaring in an instant, especially here in the capital, I was shocked at how polarized the Swedish debate climate is when I first moved here and I've found that many people here are unable and/or unwilling to see and apply nuance to their arguments and thinking.



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I thought this was going to be about the ''With Open Gates'' video...
Very interesting video, kind of eye-opening of the uncontrolled situation right now 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc

 

 



Armour1 said:
Puppyroach said:
Armour1 said:

lol Im not debating delusions of all powerfull wizards in the sky and the fairy tale stories about them.

Quaran justifies the killing of infidels and kufirs.  People killing people all in the supreme will of Allach.  All to spread Islam.

Historical fact, Islam was spread by the genocide of hundreths of millions of people.  Islams "prophet" was a murdering rapist who spread his idology threw murder rape and mass genocide.  Covert or die is how Islam was spread for over a thousand years.   Only when it spread to powerfull lands like Europe was the genocidal rape train of Islam stopped.

But in your very post you ARE debating delusions of all powerful wizards in the sky?

Yes, historical fact is that warlords spread the religion, just as European countries spread christianity through oppression in Africa. Just as the some of authors of the American constitution were for slavery. So do you judge christians or the american people by their ancestors views or actions?

 

I judge them by what they do today.  The honor killings opression and beatings of females the femele genetalia muilation i judge them by their rape epedemics and overall of religion justied murder rape genocide destruction psyshpatic action they do when screaming allach akbar in TODAYS world not what happend a thousand years ago.    

Im not worriued a jesus lover or budhist or rabbai is gonna run up on my work place and open fire with a Ak47 screming god is great die you unbeliver.  


Those people dont have a religion or humanity and animals are better. Islam after every time it mentions war, says peace is better and always says forgiving is better and do do some actual research instead of heresay and listening to the world media. 99% of the time they lie. Your lack of research is showing



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Eagle367 said:
97alexk said:
Eagle367 said:
97alexk said:
deskpro2k3 said:

This has almost nothing to do with ISIS, a little bit does. If you see the video, you see islam in action, not isis. Mosques everywhere getting more power, recruiting for ISIS. i dont say all muslims are ISIS, im against ISLAM, not actually muslims who can behave like the rest of us ofc. Most muslims are not assholes, but my point stands, there is still a big group that is extreme islamists who are not with ISIS

Islamist is a term coined to link islam more with terrorism and if you supposedly follow islamist teachings, your a terrorist, but if you follow islamic teachings, they preach peace and moderation in all things. You literally cant link actual Islam with extremism and war and terrorism. Islam is derived from salam which means peace, muslims actually say 'May peace be on you' as a greeting each and everytime, like americans say 'hi'.

The word islam means submission to allah. As in finding peace when submitting to allah.thats why alot of people mistake it for ''peace''.  islam is not peace. Peace doesnt come from religion. Peace is a whole other thing.

Actually Islam means submission to Allah while maintaining peace not acquiring peace by submitting. You've confused itthat doesnt make any sense.

that doesnt make any sense. once again

Islam actually means submission, or perhaps "the total peace one feels through total submission to allah; mind, body and soul."

The whole ''islam means peace'' argument is debunked daily. You can find everywhere now it does not mean peace as the traditional way we see it. The way we see it here is a brainwashing kind of peace.



Eagle367 said:
97alexk said:
Eagle367 said:
97alexk said:
deskpro2k3 said:

This has almost nothing to do with ISIS, a little bit does. If you see the video, you see islam in action, not isis. Mosques everywhere getting more power, recruiting for ISIS. i dont say all muslims are ISIS, im against ISLAM, not actually muslims who can behave like the rest of us ofc. Most muslims are not assholes, but my point stands, there is still a big group that is extreme islamists who are not with ISIS

Islamist is a term coined to link islam more with terrorism and if you supposedly follow islamist teachings, your a terrorist, but if you follow islamic teachings, they preach peace and moderation in all things. You literally cant link actual Islam with extremism and war and terrorism. Islam is derived from salam which means peace, muslims actually say 'May peace be on you' as a greeting each and everytime, like americans say 'hi'.

The word islam means submission to allah. As in finding peace when submitting to allah.thats why alot of people mistake it for ''peace''.  islam is not peace. Peace doesnt come from religion. Peace is a whole other thing.


Actually Islam means submission to Allah while maintaining peace not acquiring peace by submitting. You've confused it


So why did Muhammad submit so many to Islam through the threat of death? 

 

BTW alexk you might want to point out when people bring up the whole christian country vs muslim country that most people under 30 in western christian countries don't act religious.  in 50 years that will be the norm for every age group.  

 

I dont see this trend with muslim countries or muslims in the west.  The vast majority are very religious be it young or old. 



Armour1 said:
Puppyroach said:

But in your very post you ARE debating delusions of all powerful wizards in the sky?

Yes, historical fact is that warlords spread the religion, just as European countries spread christianity through oppression in Africa. Just as the some of authors of the American constitution were for slavery. So do you judge christians or the american people by their ancestors views or actions?

I judge them by what they do today.  The honor killings opression and beatings of females the femele genetalia muilation i judge them by their rape epedemics and overall of religion justied murder rape genocide destruction psyshpatic action they do when screaming allach akbar in TODAYS world not what happend a thousand years ago.    

Im not worriued a jesus lover or budhist or rabbai is gonna run up on my work place and open fire with a Ak47 screming god is great die you unbeliver.  

Well, how convenient for you to only judge other people by what they do today, yet you point to history only when it comes to muslims?

For every extremist, there are thousands of peace loving people: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/21/norways-muslims-form-pro_n_6727164.html