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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Has Tomb Raider been wasted?

Bryank75 on 10 November 2015
binary solo said:
A bit late to this thread, but IMO it was a strategic mistake to take a long standing multi-plat franchise and make it a timed exclusive as a counter to Uncharted.

As Phil Spencer noted, he would very much like an Uncharted type franchise for Xbox and it seems like their studios have been working up ideas. The money they spent on RoTR may well have been better invested in actually getting a new adventure franchise up and running sooner.

What they should have done is poach Amy Hennig from EA, and got her to start working on an entirely new franchise idea. There are loads of people who love Amy Hennig's work and if she brought a quality new 1st party franchise to Xbox, that did not have the stench of moneyhatting a long-standing PS oriented 3rd party franchise, that would earn Xbox a whole bunch of new friends. And people might even be grateful that MS rescued Amy's soul from EA. That sort of strategy has win written all over it. A pity MS didn't take it.

 

Yes, I would be really enthusiastic about something like that. I don't get why ms is so averse to setting up new studios like that and letting them "create".



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Mr Puggsly on 10 November 2015
method114 said:
Chazore said:

Pretty much this, the same happens for PC/PS4/Wii U/Xbox players all the time. That and SE is likely to get more out of this deal in the end anyway.

I actually think SE is losing on this deal. I don't know how much they were paid by MS so I guess that's the main thing I would have to consider. Either way though I think they're hurting the overall franchise by doing this. They may have come out ahead with this game because of MS's money but what did they lose by doing this? MS wont be there for TR3 at least I wouldn't rely on them being there. So now by the time the game comes out will anyone still care? Sure I will but I'll be waiting until it drop to sub $20 on steam. Mainly because the first one started off great but got really boring towards the middle and I had to force my way through the rest of the game. I could be wrong I just don't really see how SE is winning here this game is getting less hype then it did when the first one came out.

You're making presumptions and we don't know the financial details. MS could have thrown a ridiculous amount of money SE for this, we don't know.

I think this game is going to sell a couple million on Xbox platforms and it will sell a couple million on Playstation consoles as well. The game will succeed because its awesome and will be on 5 platforms by next year.

Worst case scenario, it won't sell as well as Tomb Raider 2013 (8.5 million according to SE). But it will still do well.



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Machiavellian on 10 November 2015
DakonBlackblade said:

I think the exclusivity deal will affect the games sales very badly, specialy because ppl know its comming out to PC and PS4 in a year and theres even a pre-order for it so no one is in a hurry to buy it. Not to mention Fallout 4 launching alongside the game and Halo 4 having launched last weak wich cant be good for sales.

Here is the deal.  Tomb Raider was funded by MS so the developer had no risk in making the game.  If anything, MS would see more issue if people decided to gt the game on the PC/PS4.  There is still a good deal of people on the X1 so who knows how good the legs will be for this game.  If everyone is going to just get the game for the PC/PS4 the developer and publisher still comes out on top.  Yes the game will not be sold at 60 bucks but since MS already paid for it, the developer/ publisher still wins out.  If anything the one getting hurt will be MS if the game does not sell well on the X1.

Last but not least, Tomb Raider is not Fallout or Halo.  What I mean by that is that since its a different genra for the people like myself, it comes right on time.



Machiavellian on 10 November 2015
Abun said:

This is what I have been saying in the ROTR review thread,but some people did not understand this basic fact.Neither company will benefit from this deal and the deal is bad.

From my experience, just one game does not sell a console.  Tomb Raider by itself was never going to sell X1 consoles.  What will sell X1 consoles is a lot of top quality AAA well reviewed and wanted games.  So if the X1 has enough of those games that hit the right spot for a consumer including price, then those factors will move more X1 especially during the holidays.

From what I have noticed is that gamers only look at the now.  Does it sell x amount of copies in a week or so forth.  Companies like MS, Sony and Nintendo also look at the bigger picture.  Does having this game in our profolio at this time during the holiday improve our overall perception amount consumers.



UltimateUnknown on 10 November 2015

I do have to say that Tomb Raider has changed....A LOT!

As a kid I played TR4: The Last Revelation and it was a struggle even finding where the heck to jump to or even go. Maybe it was harder because I was young, but you definitely had to explore your environments and use your items to progress. Now it's just like other action games such as Uncharted/Last of Us where everything almost feels like auto pilot. I don't know what to feel about this.



 

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DakonBlackblade on 10 November 2015
Machiavellian said:
DakonBlackblade said:

I think the exclusivity deal will affect the games sales very badly, specialy because ppl know its comming out to PC and PS4 in a year and theres even a pre-order for it so no one is in a hurry to buy it. Not to mention Fallout 4 launching alongside the game and Halo 4 having launched last weak wich cant be good for sales.

Here is the deal.  Tomb Raider was funded by MS so the developer had no risk in making the game.  If anything, MS would see more issue if people decided to gt the game on the PC/PS4.  There is still a good deal of people on the X1 so who knows how good the legs will be for this game.  If everyone is going to just get the game for the PC/PS4 the developer and publisher still comes out on top.  Yes the game will not be sold at 60 bucks but since MS already paid for it, the developer/ publisher still wins out.  If anything the one getting hurt will be MS if the game does not sell well on the X1.

Last but not least, Tomb Raider is not Fallout or Halo.  What I mean by that is that since its a different genra for the people like myself, it comes right on time.

From my understanding MS didnt fund anyhting, if they had TR would never be releasing for PS4 (Bloodborne was funded by Sony and will never release on any other plataform). MS simply payed a lot of money to buy the game for 1 year, now financialy it might be great for Square and CD because the game will eventualy release on PS4 so theyre not completly giving up on a chunk of the market, like Titanfall did, but I dont see it being good on the long run for the franchise cause the game got a lot of bad publicity due to the deal, is launching on a way too crowded period and theres 0 chances itll sell 1 year from now as well as it would sell on the PS4 if it were releasing simultaneously. So maybe SE and CD make some money, but the franchise might sufer a heavy blow on the long run and I might be wrong but if I were SE Id be more interested in keeping the franchise healthy than making some quick cash.



Abun on 10 November 2015
Machiavellian said:
Abun said:

This is what I have been saying in the ROTR review thread,but some people did not understand this basic fact.Neither company will benefit from this deal and the deal is bad.

From my experience, just one game does not sell a console.  Tomb Raider by itself was never going to sell X1 consoles.  What will sell X1 consoles is a lot of top quality AAA well reviewed and wanted games.  So if the X1 has enough of those games that hit the right spot for a consumer including price, then those factors will move more X1 especially during the holidays.

From what I have noticed is that gamers only look at the now.  Does it sell x amount of copies in a week or so forth.  Companies like MS, Sony and Nintendo also look at the bigger picture.  Does having this game in our profolio at this time during the holiday improve our overall perception amount consumers.


It has not improved the X1's perception.It has actually been the opposite.A timed exclusive adds no value to any console if it is not as big as COD or GTA.



Chris Hu on 10 November 2015
HoloDust said:
zero129 said:
Chris Hu said:
AbbathTheGrim said:
I remember when Tomb Raider was about figuring out how the hell to move forward by discovering where to jump, climb, find levers, etc. Good times.


The first Tomb Raider (1996) was good but all the other games that follwed where sub par until Tomb Raider (2013) showed up with Rise of the Tomb Raider its the first time the franchise actually has a good sequel.

Plus, what people fail to realize is that the Original TR and another new TR game in the same style (Both very good games imo) was also made and didnt succeed. So Clearly most of the fans dont seem to want a TR in its original style of exploring. And the only thing thats really changed in the reboot and its sequal is the fact that now the game has took some mechinics from Uncharted such as the climping and cinematic action style gameplay but imo this is always something TR needed to evolve into and was going to in the first place.

No one takes into account the things uncharted took from TR..

What do you mean by 'it didn't succeed'? Underworld, which was last proper TR, sold 3.5 million copies - sure, those are not numbers that publishers want to see these days (since anything less than 5 millions is failure, right?), but not so bad at all.

As for what changed in Reboot - well, sorry, but you're wrong there - everything changed. TR used to be a game about exploring beautifully designed levels filled with clever puzzles and spectacular platforming and acrobatics, and as Ellie said in that EG article, Lara was fierce, clever, enigmatic, and acrobatic.

Not one thing out of all those remained in Reboot - instead we got 3rd person cover shooter with whiny, psychotic impostor who 'hates tombs'....which is all fine if the game and main character were called something else and left legacy of TR and Lara alone, but instead CD and SE decided to (ab)use the popular and loved IP.


I think you need to look up the sales numbers for the original games again before the reboot the sales and popularity where  declining in each sequel.  After Tomb Raider 2 the sales went all downhill and so did the series popularity and Tomb Raider II really didn't deserve to sell more then the first game since it wasn't a better game then the first one it was just a slightly better looking game but as far as the total package goes the first one was still better.



HoloDust on 10 November 2015
Chris Hu said:
HoloDust said:
zero129 said:

Plus, what people fail to realize is that the Original TR and another new TR game in the same style (Both very good games imo) was also made and didnt succeed. So Clearly most of the fans dont seem to want a TR in its original style of exploring. And the only thing thats really changed in the reboot and its sequal is the fact that now the game has took some mechinics from Uncharted such as the climping and cinematic action style gameplay but imo this is always something TR needed to evolve into and was going to in the first place.

No one takes into account the things uncharted took from TR..

What do you mean by 'it didn't succeed'? Underworld, which was last proper TR, sold 3.5 million copies - sure, those are not numbers that publishers want to see these days (since anything less than 5 millions is failure, right?), but not so bad at all.

As for what changed in Reboot - well, sorry, but you're wrong there - everything changed. TR used to be a game about exploring beautifully designed levels filled with clever puzzles and spectacular platforming and acrobatics, and as Ellie said in that EG article, Lara was fierce, clever, enigmatic, and acrobatic.

Not one thing out of all those remained in Reboot - instead we got 3rd person cover shooter with whiny, psychotic impostor who 'hates tombs'....which is all fine if the game and main character were called something else and left legacy of TR and Lara alone, but instead CD and SE decided to (ab)use the popular and loved IP.


I think you need to look up the sales numbers for the original games again before the reboot the sales and popularity where  declining in each sequel.  After Tomb Raider 2 the sales went all downhill and so did the series popularity and Tomb Raider II really didn't deserve to sell more then the first game since it wasn't a better game then the first one it was just a slightly better looking game but as far as the total package goes the first one was still better.

Yeah...I'm quite aware of sales of TR over years - annualization, while not improving engine and controls, ran TR to the ground, and AoD was its death blow. The thing is, Underworld was last game that was proper TR game, and it did sell well - so SE had a choice of making another TR game (as in actual TR game) and trying to improve on original formula, or to make...something...that has no resemblance to original, but will appeal to current mass market and slap TR name on it...so, they chose latter, which would be perfectly fine if they went with new IP, instead of abusing old one.



Abun on 10 November 2015

I notice that MS is not mentioned in the opening credits so people can finally put the rumor to sleep that MS is publishing and funded the game.If that were the case then their logo would be shown in the credits along with Square,Eidos and CD.As obvious this was just a straight money hat deal and nothing more.Just clearing up the false belief that some people have.