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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Cloud Power: Unlimited CPU - Future of Games Claim

Snoopy said:
GribbleGrunger said:

Can I ask what the difference is between making it impossible to play singleplayer games without DRM and making it impossible to play singleplayer games without the cloud? Both require you to be online in order to play games. Is it just me that's spotted this? No one wanted DRM but now they're suddenly longer for having to be always online to play games. This is DRM through the backdoor folks.


It is getting to the point that complaining about the internet for console is like complaining you need electricity to power your console. Internet is getting more and more reliable ,available and faster. Besides, most games now do require internet or you will be missing out on a lot (multiplayer, dlc, patches, ect).

You vastly overestimate the number of people even in countries like the United States that have internet that is fast and reliable enough for online gaming of any kind, much less reliable cloud gaming. There are still pretty large parts of the US, for example, where you can only get dial-up, or where high speed options are simply too unreliable. Let's also ignore the fact that providers in many countries establish data caps that cloud gaming would obliterate.

There are a lot of issues that come with trying to force cloud gaming as a standard. Considering no cloud gaming services have been successful yet for the very reasons listed above, among others, of course,  I have no idea why any company could still be clinging to cloud gaming as a part of the current generation. Cloud gaming for older stuff like with PS Now? Whatever. I can always find physical copies that don't require me to be online if that need arises. That isn't an option when games are built around the use of cloud based enhancement though.

That isn't to say that the issues I listed don't also deal with patches, which I see as necessary more often than not as publishers allow less and less time for quality bug testing before sending games out to be printed and distributed. That is almost a wall all its own, although many games are still perfectly playable without even one patch. They may just be a little more inconvenient. I'm sure people without proper internet for multi-GB patches though have already accepted that simply being able to play games they want in any decently playable state is fine enough.

In the end, a lack of access to multiplayer, patches, and DLC, for the most part, doesn't make games unplayable unless looking at specific titles (like the MP only Battlefront and upcoming Rainbow Six). If cloud enhancement starts permeating single player experiences though, every single title is limited to an online capable audience. That seems like a really stupid move.



 

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Reeeeally need to stop putting the cart before the horse here. o_O I remember the LAST time there was a lot of confident insistence on what was to be the Future of Gaming- and yes, I saw the words capitalized plenty of times during that span- and it ultimately went nowhere because... well... not enough people were buying it. =P Whether this becomes the Future (here meaning a majority of titles end up using it) will hinge ENTIRELY upon how many people end up purchasing these early pioneering titles, and how much profit the pioneers are making versus how much they were making 'The Old Way.'

If they make bundles and bundles of money more than they normally would, naturally a large chunk of the industry will follow suit. On the other hand, if they're only making roughly-equivalent sales to what they were making for regular titles, but dealing with higher costs due to server upkeep... yeeeeah no. This is especially the case with the Xbox One, actually, because presumably if the PS4 doesn't support a title that's cloud computed, you're making a defacto Xbox One/PC exclusive... which is increasingly unlikely to happen the wider the sales gap gets, unless of course Microsoft pays every developer and publisher making a cloud computing title for the lost sales. (Which, hey, they might even do to try and promote cloud computing titles.) But without receiving a premium cut of revenue or up-front payment from Microsoft, most AAA who are more interested in financial return than 'Pushing The Boundaries! =O ' are going to ignore cloud computing, beyond maybe some cosmetic extra bits here and there, like the Kinect's voice commands in Skyrim.

So anyone who would like this to be the future of gaming would be best served by buying at least three copies of any title that relies heavily on cloud computation. Get those sales numbers up, and other companies will likely take notice. Without the sales numbers... =P



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Ok so I decided to read up on this a little bit. Here is what I have found.

Q: How much bandwidth will it take?

A:It's only essentially sending one set of geometry back to each console per frame.. 3D models are essentially just a set of co-ordinates in space.. even updating hundreds of thousands of these co-ordinates per frame is a relatively small amount of data compared to things like streaming video - which we all do daily.. It's likely less data than streaming the video you're watching.

-When using MS Compute for physics, you are only passing back and forth very small amounts of data, it's the result of MS Compute figuring out how/where physical based items in the game will fall or interact. That info is usually just a few characters that the Xbox One console can use to make it happen in game. The heavy lifting is being done by MS Compute/Cloud.

Reim's notes: So basically the cloud will help with computations, meaning your worlds can be fully physical. Instead of a building being an inaccessible image that will not obey the laws of physics, the cloud can be used to compute all the equations needed to render it a physical object. This does not take up as much bandwidth as we think it may, seeing as it is passing computations back and forth and not streaming or rendering any data.

That's really all I wanted to know to be honest. If it doesn't use much bandwidth than I suppose it is only a matter of cost and how early they can start using it. It looks to me like it may work fairly well.

I will reserve judgement on it until more coverage comes out but as of this moment it looks really cool! As for being always online, Crackdown 3 will have an online and offline mode (where the offline does not have access to physical environments cos no internet = no cloud) so there is evidence that you will have a choice.



#1 Amb-ass-ador

There's no such thing as unlimited or infinite, there is however ever expanding and within the physical limits of your hardware's Ethernet port capabilities to receive data.

The Cloud is also limited by the costs of the infrastructure. You're not going to have access to limitless performance because the hardware has a physical cost attached to it and Microsoft or any provider isn't going to give each user access to more tech than that player can afford to pay for the use of.

So far Crackdown 3 is the only example of a cloud based game running on Microsoft's Azure servers and even then every example has been in a controlled environment, on stage at games conferences, not actually in use even in an Alpha test accessed by real world gamers.
Crackdown 3 isn't doing anything that hasn't been done by another game that also uses heavy Physics compute, I am of course talking about Just Cause 3. The level of destruction in Just Cause 3 is highly extensive, with fine grain compute being shown, all the way up to large scale events.

I'm not sure why you'd link to a youtuber, as apposed to the article The Red Dragon sources in his Video.
So far I see no proof of the claims that The Cloud is capable of what it's proponents insist is possible, nor is it logical for Microsoft to give each player access to thousands of dollars worth of hardware.
XBL Gold doesn't pay Microsoft for the use of servers required to even add half an XB1's performance to each cloud assisted game, not when they want to make money from this technology.

All I see here is claims with no proof.



Microsoft was smart enough to only put cloud into the multiplayer aspect of Crackdown 3, they knew if they used it in the whole game and make it online only people would be pissed.



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Teeqoz said:
This reminds me of another The Red Dragon video talking about how "Gamers are easily influenced by propaganda".....



Idk why so many people are being trolls when this isn't even about Microsoft, its about the company Cloudgine.
None of you ever seeing this becoming an amazing technology? Or do you guys just bash MS every chance you get. Probably the latter.



GribbleGrunger said:

Can I ask what the difference is between making it impossible to play singleplayer games without DRM and making it impossible to play singleplayer games without the cloud? Both require you to be online in order to play games. Is it just me that's spotted this? No one wanted DRM but now they're suddenly longer for having to be always online to play games. This is DRM through the backdoor folks.

It's also going to be interesting to see how sites review games like Crackdown. Are they going to review it based on the core game that's working on the XB1 or are they going to review it with the assistance of cloud computing. If they go for the latter, will they mention you'll need to be online to benefit?

I agree Microsoft is always pushing for Online. Without the internet on Xbox One you cant record footage, install your physical 360 games and now downgraded graphics on their exclusives? Its a bad trend

i want power and features from local hardware not servers, thats why i am not font for PSnow either.



Ruler said:
GribbleGrunger said:

Can I ask what the difference is between making it impossible to play singleplayer games without DRM and making it impossible to play singleplayer games without the cloud? Both require you to be online in order to play games. Is it just me that's spotted this? No one wanted DRM but now they're suddenly longer for having to be always online to play games. This is DRM through the backdoor folks.

It's also going to be interesting to see how sites review games like Crackdown. Are they going to review it based on the core game that's working on the XB1 or are they going to review it with the assistance of cloud computing. If they go for the latter, will they mention you'll need to be online to benefit?

I agree Microsoft is always pushing for Online. Without the internet on Xbox One you cant record footage, install your physical 360 games and now downgraded graphics on their exclusives? Its a bad trend

i want power and features from local hardware not servers, thats why i am not font for PSnow either.

We are talking about dirt cheap consoles with hardly any power.  It is simply an extension.  You'd rather record 50+ video clips and store them on your limited hdd? Or access them from many different places and have the option to download to your machine.  Of course you need the internet to check the validity of the 360 game you want to play or everyone would easily pirate it.  Get caught up on tech bruh 

And lol @ downgraded graphics.  It is an extension to make your cheap console suck less.  Amazingly applicable to huge open world games or MMORPGS where the world is stored on the server!  Not your crappy console. 



Cloud gaming is basically always online and has more restrictive DRM. Both the xbox one and ps4's networks go down way too much for this to be practical for everyday gaming. The future, my ass.