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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox Cloud Power: Unlimited CPU - Future of Games Claim

Aeolus451 said:
Cloud gaming is basically always online and has more restrictive DRM. Both the xbox one and ps4's networks go down way too much for this to be practical for everyday gaming. The future, my ass.

yeah, it never worked out with the three current biggest games in the world, WoW, Dota2, League of Legends.  Those games were so unsuccesful for being always online. 



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So much hype for the cloud but many here are yet to be impressed ...

Just where exactly are the AAA 1080p & 60fps games on the X1 ?

If the cloud is all that why hasn't it solved Halo 5's dynamic resolution woes ?

Look, I'm not trying to poop on the party (OK, I am) but people need to lower their expectations before they get burned by them ...



fatslob-:O said:

So much hype for the cloud but many here are yet to be impressed ...

Just where exactly are the AAA 1080p & 60fps games on the X1 ?

If the cloud is all that why hasn't it solved Halo 5's dynamic resolution woes ?

Look, I'm not trying to poop on the party (OK, I am) but people need to lower their expectations before they get burned by them ...

This video refers to the CEO of Cloudgine, not Microsoft.  Try again?  



ReimTime said:

Ok so I decided to read up on this a little bit. Here is what I have found.

Q: How much bandwidth will it take?

A:It's only essentially sending one set of geometry back to each console per frame.. 3D models are essentially just a set of co-ordinates in space.. even updating hundreds of thousands of these co-ordinates per frame is a relatively small amount of data compared to things like streaming video - which we all do daily.. It's likely less data than streaming the video you're watching.

-When using MS Compute for physics, you are only passing back and forth very small amounts of data, it's the result of MS Compute figuring out how/where physical based items in the game will fall or interact. That info is usually just a few characters that the Xbox One console can use to make it happen in game. The heavy lifting is being done by MS Compute/Cloud.

Reim's notes: So basically the cloud will help with computations, meaning your worlds can be fully physical. Instead of a building being an inaccessible image that will not obey the laws of physics, the cloud can be used to compute all the equations needed to render it a physical object. This does not take up as much bandwidth as we think it may, seeing as it is passing computations back and forth and not streaming or rendering any data.

That's really all I wanted to know to be honest. If it doesn't use much bandwidth than I suppose it is only a matter of cost and how early they can start using it. It looks to me like it may work fairly well.

I will reserve judgement on it until more coverage comes out but as of this moment it looks really cool! As for being always online, Crackdown 3 will have an online and offline mode (where the offline does not have access to physical environments cos no internet = no cloud) so there is evidence that you will have a choice.

Depends on the video quality and responsiveness you need. That simply glosses over the fact that the video you are watching is buffered ahead to compensate for the variable bitrate at which it arrives at your home. When I do a speed test I average out at 20mbps, however it's full of dips when analyzed further.

even updating hundreds of thousands of these co-ordinates per frame is a relatively small amount of data compared to things like streaming video

Again comparing to what kind of video?
A hundred thousand coordinates per frame is 549 mbps for 60fps in raw data....  Sure you can compress that a lot, yet you can't use lossy compression as used for video. I would take the hundreds of thousands coordinates with a huge grain of salt.

Anyway I guess what they mean is they'll only update collisions while the console will track everything in free fall to keep the data flow under control. Yet can they smooth out the spikes that will generate. It's nice to say you only need 3-5mbps on average, yet if a big explosion needs the equivalent of 50mbps or more for a second things might not look that great. So basically the server will have to work ahead to get the collision data to you ahead of time.

Unlimited CPU is great, depending on unreliable 5mbps for communicating with that unlimited CPU is a huge challenge. I'm curious to see how it will perform in a real world setting with wifi routers serving a bunch of other devices around the house at the same time.



Sharpryno said:

This video refers to the CEO of Cloudgine, not Microsoft.  Try again?  

Why so defensive ? 

And it's not like Cloudgine isn't related to Microsoft at all when their doing some work for Crackdown 3 ... 



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Sharpryno said:
fatslob-:O said:

So much hype for the cloud but many here are yet to be impressed ...

Just where exactly are the AAA 1080p & 60fps games on the X1 ?

If the cloud is all that why hasn't it solved Halo 5's dynamic resolution woes ?

Look, I'm not trying to poop on the party (OK, I am) but people need to lower their expectations before they get burned by them ...

This video refers to the CEO of Cloudgine, not Microsoft.  Try again?  

Soooo if we're not supposed to talk about this with regards to the Xbox platform, can we at least agree that linking to a video whose title's first word is 'Xbox' probably wasn't the way to go? Got to agree with whoever said that a far more fruitful discussion would have been had by linking the original article, rather than the Xbox-slanted Youtube video. o_O



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GribbleGrunger said:

Can I ask what the difference is between making it impossible to play singleplayer games without DRM and making it impossible to play singleplayer games without the cloud? Both require you to be online in order to play games. Is it just me that's spotted this? No one wanted DRM but now they're suddenly longer for having to be always online to play games. This is DRM through the backdoor folks.

Not only does Cloud Computing mean Always Online, it also gives publishers the option to shut down games entirely, including Single Player games. Just imagine a Single Player game utilizing the Cloud as a mandatory feature. Servers aren't infinite and cost money, at a certain time they WILL be shut down for the game. Do you know what this means for Single Player games utilizing the Cloud? It means that publishers will have the ability to shut down an entire game much like publishers can shut down Multiplayer components of games these days. Just imagine hundreds of PS2 games being unplayable because all of their components require the Cloud and they are shut down in favor for newer games, with the Cloud this will happen.



BraLoD said:
Sharpryno said:

We are talking about dirt cheap consoles with hardly any power.  It is simply an extension.  You'd rather record 50+ video clips and store them on your limited hdd? Or access them from many different places and have the option to download to your machine.  Of course you need the internet to check the validity of the 360 game you want to play or everyone would easily pirate it.  Get caught up on tech bruh 

And lol @ downgraded graphics.  It is an extension to make your cheap console suck less.  Amazingly applicable to huge open world games or MMORPGS where the world is stored on the server!  Not your crappy console. 

Dirty cheap consoles that are about to get impressive things like Quantum Break and Uncharted 4.

Don't know anything as remotely as impressive as Uncharted 4, quite a feat for a dirty cheap console to make my jaw drop more than anything else :D

And that's only ND debut on the system hardware :D

Can't wait to see the next God of War as well.

Watch the video and learn about the areas in gaming it could apply to.  Like Crackdown's destructibile environments and open world games. 

I've seen games on PC FAR more impressive looking than Uncharted 4 and the graphics in gaming is getting better exponentially.

 

Zanten said:
Sharpryno said:
fatslob-:O said:

So much hype for the cloud but many here are yet to be impressed ... 

Just where exactly are the AAA 1080p & 60fps games on the X1 ? 

If the cloud is all that why hasn't it solved Halo 5's dynamic resolution woes ? 

Look, I'm not trying to poop on the party (OK, I am) but people need to lower their expectations before they get burned by them ...

This video refers to the CEO of Cloudgine, not Microsoft.  Try again?  

Soooo if we're not supposed to talk about this with regards to the Xbox platform, can we at least agree that linking to a video whose title's first word is 'Xbox' probably wasn't the way to go? Got to agree with whoever said that a far more fruitful discussion would have been had by linking the original article, rather than the Xbox-slanted Youtube video. o_O

I informed myself before posting, most people hating did not.  I was simply correcting them so they could stop? Or actually watch the video.  It is not related to MS in anyway.



Sharpryno said:
Ruler said:

I agree Microsoft is always pushing for Online. Without the internet on Xbox One you cant record footage, install your physical 360 games and now downgraded graphics on their exclusives? Its a bad trend

i want power and features from local hardware not servers, thats why i am not font for PSnow either.

We are talking about dirt cheap consoles with hardly any power.  It is simply an extension.  You'd rather record 50+ video clips and store them on your limited hdd? Or access them from many different places and have the option to download to your machine.  Of course you need the internet to check the validity of the 360 game you want to play or everyone would easily pirate it.  Get caught up on tech bruh 

And lol @ downgraded graphics.  It is an extension to make your cheap console suck less.  Amazingly applicable to huge open world games or MMORPGS where the world is stored on the server!  Not your crappy console. 

so if the cloud is so much better in videocapturing why cant it record more than 5 minutes of footage? not to mention you have to have a xbox live gold subscription to get your footage on your computer for editing. 

Well if they want to have certain games having better graphics and physics why not releasing a more powerfull xbox which can support these games?

The Xbox Ones BC feature downloads data to verify youre not a pirate? lol, how is it easy to trick the system if only physical games get aproved?

Do you know how many times servers were shut down for these server based games? including the entire original xbox live network which was paid for by its users? And the servers go often times down or your internet. So yeah the graphics will be downgraded in crackdown in the singleplayer mode



SvennoJ said:
ReimTime said:

Ok so I decided to read up on this a little bit. Here is what I have found.

Q: How much bandwidth will it take?

A:It's only essentially sending one set of geometry back to each console per frame.. 3D models are essentially just a set of co-ordinates in space.. even updating hundreds of thousands of these co-ordinates per frame is a relatively small amount of data compared to things like streaming video - which we all do daily.. It's likely less data than streaming the video you're watching.

-When using MS Compute for physics, you are only passing back and forth very small amounts of data, it's the result of MS Compute figuring out how/where physical based items in the game will fall or interact. That info is usually just a few characters that the Xbox One console can use to make it happen in game. The heavy lifting is being done by MS Compute/Cloud.

Reim's notes: So basically the cloud will help with computations, meaning your worlds can be fully physical. Instead of a building being an inaccessible image that will not obey the laws of physics, the cloud can be used to compute all the equations needed to render it a physical object. This does not take up as much bandwidth as we think it may, seeing as it is passing computations back and forth and not streaming or rendering any data.

That's really all I wanted to know to be honest. If it doesn't use much bandwidth than I suppose it is only a matter of cost and how early they can start using it. It looks to me like it may work fairly well.

I will reserve judgement on it until more coverage comes out but as of this moment it looks really cool! As for being always online, Crackdown 3 will have an online and offline mode (where the offline does not have access to physical environments cos no internet = no cloud) so there is evidence that you will have a choice.

Depends on the video quality and responsiveness you need. That simply glosses over the fact that the video you are watching is buffered ahead to compensate for the variable bitrate at which it arrives at your home. When I do a speed test I average out at 20mbps, however it's full of dips when analyzed further.

even updating hundreds of thousands of these co-ordinates per frame is a relatively small amount of data compared to things like streaming video

Again comparing to what kind of video?
A hundred thousand coordinates per frame is 549 mbps for 60fps in raw data....  Sure you can compress that a lot, yet you can't use lossy compression as used for video. I would take the hundreds of thousands coordinates with a huge grain of salt.

Anyway I guess what they mean is they'll only update collisions while the console will track everything in free fall to keep the data flow under control. Yet can they smooth out the spikes that will generate. It's nice to say you only need 3-5mbps on average, yet if a big explosion needs the equivalent of 50mbps or more for a second things might not look that great. So basically the server will have to work ahead to get the collision data to you ahead of time.

Unlimited CPU is great, depending on unreliable 5mbps for communicating with that unlimited CPU is a huge challenge. I'm curious to see how it will perform in a real world setting with wifi routers serving a bunch of other devices around the house at the same time.

From what I read - and again these aren't my words - apparently the maximum bandwidth required is 1.5 mbps to communicate the computations back and forth - so there is no video streaming involved, just communicating computations back and forth. Whether or not that is bs I have no idea; at this early stage I haven't seen any evidence to sway me one way or the other. I am also curious to see how it performs in a real world environment.



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