Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Since Wii U failed, what should Nintendo have done to follow up the Wii's success?

Could Nintendo have realistically produced another Wii-like success?

Yes. Nintendo magic. Just not the Wii U. 131 28.85%
 
No. Wii was a one time th... 262 57.71%
 
Yo Mama 61 13.44%
 
Total:454
Soundwave said:
Mr Khan said:
Soundwave said:

I think in retrospect they should've just spun the Wii off entirely into a casual/fitness brand, with only casual and fitness style games along with maybe some Mario spin-offs (Mario Party, Mario Dance, etc.).

Things like Sin & Punishment, Metroid Prime 3, Xenoblade, Red Steel 2, Conduit, etc. never really sold great on the Wii even despite its mammoth userbase, Skyward Sword under-performed as well.

What I would've done in hindsight is released a "New Wii" around 2010, which would basically be the same as the original Wii with a new cheap GPU processor that would be able to run newer games in 720p (same visual fidelity more of less though). No tablet controller. New updated OS with more storage, better browser, eShop with hundreds of back catalog games available for download + easy access to Virtual Console. $169.99 at launch, scaled down to $129.99-$149.99 quickly.  

This would be a quiet/soft launch and I'd keep a small team at Nintendo to work on a handful of new casual games for the system yearly. All casual stuff. I'd turn Wii Fit into its own channel with updating fitness challenges and lifestyle reccomendations. 

In 2012, I'd launch a traditional Nintendo console that would be on par with the PS4/XB1 with a one year head start and devote the core Nintendo teams to making games for that. No gimmick controller (tablet pad), the audience and focus for this platform would be clear -- mainstream gamers who like to play deeper game experiences. 

But you're not going to beat Sony and Microsoft at their own game. If they wanted to branch off, the path would've just been to stick with the Touch Generations brand, since that's where the profit margins are.

I do think Nintendo could have actually finished a decent no.2 this gen above MS, if they utilized a year head start properly with an adequetely spec-ed machine that allowed for easy PC ports. Too late for this gen now though. 

I know I'd rather have 40-50 million "New NES" systems sold versus the 17-18 million the Wii U is going to crash in at, even if we assume the PS4 wasn't going to be caught, there was still plenty of room here for Nintendo to take advantage. But as usual they were asleep at the wheel and let Sony/MS just get away with 7 year lifecycles for no good reason. They could've taken advantage very easily, especially with MS' blunder of banking on Kinect for their first year. 

The casual market was always doomed long term anyway though IMO, once that audience was introduced to the concept of $1 apps/freemium to get their 20-30 minutes/every 2nd-3rd day gaming fix ... Nintendo never had a chance. So there goes your whole "where the profit margins are", Touch Generations games like Brain Training and Style Savvy flopped on the 3DS too because no one needs/wants a Nintendo platform for that type of experience anymore. 

I'm of the mind that the third party problem for Nintendo is more or less un-solvable, pending Sony or Microsoft's outright exit from the market. Early head start and easy porting or no, they weren't going to get the right games from third parties.



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In cpu terms the wii u is ridiculously under-powered for its release date. Most wii u games that are also available for ps3 and 360 perform weaker on wii u with the only exceptions being 2D games and light cpu games like racing games. Also the gamepad is a terrible controller, bulky and missing analogue triggers. Not only that but the launch price was ridiculously high for such a weak console.

Instead of a gpu with 176-352 gflops performance they needed something like 700 gflops and instead of 3 incredibly weak 32bit 1.25ghz powerpc cpu's it needed perhaps 4 jaguar cores (or the early version I forget the name of) which would easily have been up to the job of emulating the original wii powerpc chip at full speed.

The controller should have been a conventional joypad design that also doubled as a motion controller.

Personally I think it should have been a top loader design for the disc so it could run gamecube and wii discs.

There are lots of other things I would have done differently but the meat of it is a console that sits in the middle between ps3/360 and ps4/xbone not stuck with the 360/PS3 in performance terms.



What Nintendo should have done, is try to genuinely (not half ass) recapture the core market, by offering a true next system in terms of power. Nintendo at the time thought "we have the casuals on lock" so they should have emulated what MS did in stealing the PS fanbase, by taking advantage of a 1 yr head start. This would have shown devs and the gaming community "ok, Nintendo is serious again!".

But by making the faux tablet MANDATORY, it added unnecessary cost to the system. The faux tab - pro controller cost differential should have been added to the budget toward getting the best gpu/cpu and ram possible. It is more than evident now, that Nintendo never had any real breakthrough ideas/innovation in game play when it comes to the Faux tab. But when Nintendo was in meetings coming up with ideas for their system after Wii, they likely said "oh people mainly use wifi for their tablets, which means mostly home use" so they included this gimmicky Faux tablet with terrible signal power, to entice the casual Wii market. Nintendo wrongfully assumed parents/kids would prefer a Wii U (gamepad) over actual ipad/android tablets.

I personally like the gamepad for its off tv play, but the thing should have been optional and not sacrificed HW power for it.



Captain_Yuri said:
baloofarsan said:
Captain_Yuri said:
Materia-Blade said:

And it did increase the price by a large margin. A replacement gamepad costs $150

 

 

Here is an old breakdown from almost two years ago.

http://www.destructoid.com/cnn-estimates-the-cost-of-wii-u-s-parts-to-be-228-249435.phtml

 The GamePad alone is valued at $79.25, 

Replacing this with a classic controller that costs around $15

http://bgr.com/2013/11/26/xbox-one-teardown-bom/

That makes for a reduction in price of less than $65 (almost a much as a bundled game)

Yea and then u have the licensing fees since Nintendo partnered with Broadcom (I believe) to create the zero latency streaming, R&D and a whole lot of other stuff which could have been far less if they didn't go the way they did with the gamepad. But yea, they goofed a lot this generation which is a shame cause the games are great

I have struggled to come up with an answer to what Nintendo should have done three years ago to avoid this disaster, but has not managed to come up with any good answer.

Some time ago we had a thread on this forum asking if what our recollections was of the time before the launch of the eight generation. Most, of course, stated that they knew Playstation would win. I am not so sure the managers at Sony was so sure. The managers at MS was not sure, cause they betted on the Wii route to be the future: TV, TV, TV - casual-Kinect games - Family Entertainment - Xbox Fitness - Spielberg's Halo exclusive to Xbox Live. 

Three years ago when it was to be decided how the new consoles should look like gamers was mass emigrating to mobile gaming. Ipads was everywhere, Call of Duty seemed to be the only remnant left of the dedicated gaming industry, game sales had been declining for a couple of years, Xbox 360 was eight years old tech and people was starting to doubt if MS and Sony even were interested in producing new hardware. I could not have given any advice to those that had to come up with new hardware.I had no idea that the right answer was "MORE of the SAME".



Launched the Wii 2 (not Wii U) with an improved Wii controller, maybe some other added features. Make it closer in power to the Xbox One with a $299 price point which would have resulted in better sales.



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baloofarsan said:
Captain_Yuri said:

Yea and then u have the licensing fees since Nintendo partnered with Broadcom (I believe) to create the zero latency streaming, R&D and a whole lot of other stuff which could have been far less if they didn't go the way they did with the gamepad. But yea, they goofed a lot this generation which is a shame cause the games are great

I have struggled to come up with an answer to what Nintendo should have done three years ago to avoid this disaster, but has not managed to come up with any good answer.

Some time ago we had a thread on this forum asking if what our recollections was of the time before the launch of the eight generation. Most, of course, stated that they knew Playstation would win. I am not so sure the managers at Sony was so sure. The managers at MS was not sure, cause they betted on the Wii route to be the future: TV, TV, TV - casual-Kinect games - Family Entertainment - Xbox Fitness - Spielberg's Halo exclusive to Xbox Live. 

Three years ago when it was to be decided how the new consoles should look like gamers was mass emigrating to mobile gaming. Ipads was everywhere, Call of Duty seemed to be the only remnant left of the dedicated gaming industry, game sales had been declining for a couple of years, Xbox 360 was eight years old tech and people was starting to doubt if MS and Sony even were interested in producing new hardware. I could not have given any advice to those that had to come up with new hardware.I had no idea that the right answer was "MORE of the SAME".

True dat but I do think the wiiU would have had a great chance of success if they didn't goof in so many. I mean, a lot of people think that the reason why the wiiU failed was cause of one or two reasons which imo, is certainly not the case. There were so many issues with the wiiU as it launched that it made the wiiU look very unappealing to many... The reason why the wii was a success was cause Nintendo didn't goof up in so many aspects. They got the pricing right, they got the name right because of the genius "wii would like to play" ads, they got the games right by launching with Zelda and after WW which many felt was a disappointment (for better or for worse) due its cartoonly look, is what many fans wanted at the time cause it was a much darker zelda that people wanted. As well as many other things like the concept, the e3 and etc

I strongly do think that if Nintendo didn't make so many mistakes when launching the wiiU, it would have been considered a success but alas, it is what it is. A console full of great games



             

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Mr Khan said:
Soundwave said:
Mr Khan said:
Soundwave said:

I think in retrospect they should've just spun the Wii off entirely into a casual/fitness brand, with only casual and fitness style games along with maybe some Mario spin-offs (Mario Party, Mario Dance, etc.).

Things like Sin & Punishment, Metroid Prime 3, Xenoblade, Red Steel 2, Conduit, etc. never really sold great on the Wii even despite its mammoth userbase, Skyward Sword under-performed as well.

What I would've done in hindsight is released a "New Wii" around 2010, which would basically be the same as the original Wii with a new cheap GPU processor that would be able to run newer games in 720p (same visual fidelity more of less though). No tablet controller. New updated OS with more storage, better browser, eShop with hundreds of back catalog games available for download + easy access to Virtual Console. $169.99 at launch, scaled down to $129.99-$149.99 quickly.  

This would be a quiet/soft launch and I'd keep a small team at Nintendo to work on a handful of new casual games for the system yearly. All casual stuff. I'd turn Wii Fit into its own channel with updating fitness challenges and lifestyle reccomendations. 

In 2012, I'd launch a traditional Nintendo console that would be on par with the PS4/XB1 with a one year head start and devote the core Nintendo teams to making games for that. No gimmick controller (tablet pad), the audience and focus for this platform would be clear -- mainstream gamers who like to play deeper game experiences. 

But you're not going to beat Sony and Microsoft at their own game. If they wanted to branch off, the path would've just been to stick with the Touch Generations brand, since that's where the profit margins are.

I do think Nintendo could have actually finished a decent no.2 this gen above MS, if they utilized a year head start properly with an adequetely spec-ed machine that allowed for easy PC ports. Too late for this gen now though. 

I know I'd rather have 40-50 million "New NES" systems sold versus the 17-18 million the Wii U is going to crash in at, even if we assume the PS4 wasn't going to be caught, there was still plenty of room here for Nintendo to take advantage. But as usual they were asleep at the wheel and let Sony/MS just get away with 7 year lifecycles for no good reason. They could've taken advantage very easily, especially with MS' blunder of banking on Kinect for their first year. 

The casual market was always doomed long term anyway though IMO, once that audience was introduced to the concept of $1 apps/freemium to get their 20-30 minutes/every 2nd-3rd day gaming fix ... Nintendo never had a chance. So there goes your whole "where the profit margins are", Touch Generations games like Brain Training and Style Savvy flopped on the 3DS too because no one needs/wants a Nintendo platform for that type of experience anymore. 

I'm of the mind that the third party problem for Nintendo is more or less un-solvable, pending Sony or Microsoft's outright exit from the market. Early head start and easy porting or no, they weren't going to get the right games from third parties.

They did actually have most of the big market IP. Assassin's Creed, Batman, Call of Duty, Madden, FIFA, NBA 2K, Need For Speed were there from day one. If they had pushed they likely could have gotten GTA as well. 

The problem is what's the incentive for anyone to buy a Wii U for these games? There's no generational leap, if Nintendo had a full year where they had the best versions of these games without question (noticably better too), they would have seen considerable benefit. 

They should have worked more closely with Ubi Soft as well to ensure Zombi U was a very high quality game. 

They could have done it. But every time you miss your window of oppurtunity, it's very costly. Now Nintendo is pretty much cemented as being irrelevant to the mainstream console market as far as the development community and non-Nintendo fans go. It's a costly mistake. 



I have a few thoughts about this matter, but I would like to note that not everything that Nintendo could have done to imrpvoe success would necessarily be compatible with eachother. For example, making the console more powerful to attract 3rd parties would make the console more expensive. My thoughts are that the following would have had the best chance of making the Wii U more successful.

 

What Nintendo Did Right

  • Timing - The Wii U's release date in late 2012 was probably a good choice. Unless Nintendo truly made a console as powerful as its 8th gen competitors, they would be better off avoiding a release too close to the PS4 and Xbox One. Conversely, releasing it before mid-2012 would make it a bit too close to the 3DS launch for Nintendo's best interests. Not to mention that considering the trouble Nintendo had adapting to HD, they needed all the time they could get adjusting to the new hardware and the Wii was still selling in 2011.
  • Approximate Hardware Power - It's pretty obvious that Nintendo had trouble adapting to HD graphics, especially looking back at games like Pikmin 3 being delayed for months. This indicates that Nintendo's studios, with the exception of Retro, would not really have benefitted from being much more powerful. As for attracting third party support, one has to remember the 3rd party games that have done well on Nintendo's prior consoles. The Wii's more notable 3rd party hits, Just Dance, minigame collections, fitness games, etc, made less use of the Wii's power than Nintendo did. The GameCube before it, despite being more powerful than the PS2 in many respects, did not necessarily get the most technicaly impressive 3rd party games. Sonic Adventure 2 Battle was an improved port for hardware from 1998, other multiplatform games like Sonic Heroes and Soul Calibur 2 did not push any hardware to its limits, and even Resident Evil 4 turned out to be playable on weaker hardware.
  • Launch Titles - A new 2D Super Mario game and a minigame collection meant to show off a console's new features were great launch titles. They could have been better, but if one had to pick any two games from Nintendo for launch, those are good choices.

 

1. Concept

Nintendo struck gold with the Wii. That much is obvious. The Wii U's biggest problem is likely that name aside, it is not that similar to the Wii.

Compared to the Wii, the Wii U is a bit more expensive costing about $100 more than the Wii did at launch. Even accounting for inflation, that is a notable jump. The Wii U's GamePad, much as I love it, is hard to compare to the Wiimote and Nunchuck. The Gamepad raises the price of the console, causes problems for many multiplayer games, hinders the hardware with its extra display, and is not particularly impressive in its own right. Simply keeping the old Wiimote Plus controls from the Wii would have lowered prices for Nintendo and consumers, have kept the premise more familiar to returning Wii owners, and would not have prevented too many games from being made. It would also make selling local multiplayer games easier, thanks to the abundance of Wiimotes left over from the prior few years. The Wii U could still have stood out with Miierse, Nintendo exclusives, HD graphics, etc.

 

2. Name

This is probably not as important as people say. If Microsoft got away with the Xbox One, the Wii U is excusable. still, considering Nintendo's marketing problems lately, there could have been a better name. "Wii" had to remain in the title, but there are tons of better names for showing that it was not a simple reiteration. Super Wii, Ultra Wii, Wonder Wii, Wii Infinity, Wii 2,

 

3. Games Developed from 2010 to 2013

"Alright everyone! We have a new generation coming up, and need to have a lineup of games worthy of the successors of the DS and Wii. Sakurai! Go work on that on-rails/third-person shooter hybrid that revives a niche franchise. We'll give you three and a half years to do that. I'm sure there is nothing else you could possibly do at this time. Konno! Nintendogs and Mario Kart were some of the biggest games on the DS. I need you to have demos of sequels to both of them available by Summer 2010! I know that releasing them both in a single year can be tough, but we are short on resources. Miyamoto-san! Make that Pikmin game you've been begging for. We'll give you some manpower from the 2D Super Mario team. We'll also need to create an entirely new team for New Super Mario Bros 2 from other teams. Also, we need a Wii Fit sequel, seeing as the first two each sold over 20 million units, but not before we bring Steel Diver to the world! We also need a fourth Kirby game for the DS, two Mario RPG's released for the 3DS witihin a single year, a new Brain Age that is $10 more expensive than the originals were back in the day. Oh, and we should release first Mario Party on the Wii U no less than two years after launch.  Any questions? Wait, Wii Sports? What about it? Why would we make a proper sequel to two of the best-selling games of all time? Don't be silly!"

Silliness aside, I think that Nintendo's development choices have been questionable at points.



Love and tolerate.

I'm on more of the crowd side that says Nintendo's Wii U is not done yet. Remember the unbearable first couple of years that Sony trudged through with the PS3? Or more recently, what Nintendo themselves went through with the 3DS? They turned that mess around, I think that they will be capable of turning this mess around. I'm not ready to call it a failure because I have seen over the years what is possible with Nintendo and how they conduct themselves. The Wii U may not exactly be selling a LOT of systems, but it IS selling at or very near a profit, so they still make money with each one that they sell. They are an intelligent business, and if any one company can turn this thing around, Nintendo is that company.



NNID: Dongo8                              XBL Gamertag: Dongos Revenge

Captain_Yuri said:
baloofarsan said:
Captain_Yuri said:

I strongly do think that if Nintendo didn't make so many mistakes when launching the wiiU, it would have been considered a success but alas, it is what it is. A console full of great games

Maybe next time Kyoto will make all the right decisions...