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Forums - Nintendo - I don't want Retro to make the next Metroid game.

If not Retro, then who is going to make a great Prime 4? :/



                
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spemanig said:

Controvercial, I know. Metroid Prime is one of my favorite games of all time. Retro made it. How can I not want Retro to make another one?

Well first, I think the knee jerk reaction is to think that Metroid is in dire need of Retro right now. After the utter abomination that was the the most recent entry in the series made by it's co-creator, the obvious reation would be to give it back to the guys who made the good Metroid. The three good Metroids.

Well here's the first reason why I'd rather Metroid be given to a new, still capable, studio. As much as I love Metroid Prime, and I LOVE Metroid Prime, it kiiiiiiinda doesn't really feel Metroid like a little bit. That's a weird thing for me to say, because in a lot of obvious ways, it clearly is Metroid. It's a giant world that you travers through caverns and tunnels in a pretty non linear way. It's isolating. It's atmospheric. That's all very Metroid, but there's something different about all the Prime games.

It's one of the reasons why, even if I ignore Prime's pacebreaking fetch quest, I can't say that I like it more than Super Metroid. The atmosphere in Super Metroid, and even in some parts of the underwhelming Metroid Fusion, is different to the one in Prime. And it's not because one is in 2D and one is in 3D. Prime has a distinctly... "space-y" vibe to it. It feels "galactic" or "stellar." I'd even compare it to Star Trek in how its atmosphere can feel. And that's not a bad thing. That works for the Prime games. I love that in the Prime games. But that's not what I feel like Metroid games should typically be. As great as the Prime game's are, they clearly are just a side story. That's why I feel like that vibe works for the Prime games, but I don't want any other Metroid games to feel like that.

Super Metroid on the other hand has a completely different atmosphere. I hate beating a dead horse, but it's partly because it really does feel like the movie "Alien." And don't get me wrong, it doesn't feel like that all the time, and there are many times where I'm exploring and it feels no different from Prime, but that distinctly eerie and unnerving feeling is almost completely absent from the Prime series. I don't want to say that Super Metroid is a scary game, because it isn't, but it does have a sci fi horror atmosphere that Prime lacks.

I think the title screens does a great job of showcasing the kind of atmosphere differences between that of Super and the Prime games.

Super Metroid Title screen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2-eg04TaKQ&spfreload=10

Metroid Prime Title screen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImlQEFqUIcU&spfreload=10

It's not that I don't think that Retro can make a game that brings that feeling back, but I just don't think they will. They have no reason to. The Prime games were rightfully never criticized for taking this element away from the series, but it's part of the reason I feel like we've never gotten gotten a true 3D Metroid game yet. Like Retro made Metroid: The Side Stories instead of Metroid 5. And again, that's FINE. I love the Prime games, but I want that Super Metroid of 3D Metroid, and I feel like we haven't gotten it yet. Unironically, Alien Isolation captures a little bit of that atmosphere. So does Bioshock.

But even the way they portray alien worlds is different. I rarely felt like I was exploring underground alien tunnels in the Prime games. It always felt like it took a more realistic approach to how these worlds would look like. In Super Metroid, it would rain spores and pollen. There would be entire catacombs lined with what looked like bubbles or fish eggs. Prime didn't do things like that in any of the games with the exception of the much more intentional phazon and one time where it rained static electricity. Again, this isn't a criticism, but I don't think Retro will ever feel the need to bring these elements into a 3D Metroid, because their absence in the Prime games wasn't a flaw. They were just two different types of games with two different types of goals, but I want just one 3D Metroid that sets out to do what Super did, just like Zelda U is setting out to do what Zelda 1 did. I just don't think Retro will do that. Not because they're not capable, but because they have no reason to stray away from the design philosophy used in Prime.

This is absolutely not to say that I want Sakamoto touching the Metroid franchise ever again, but I want a new team to try to tackle Metroid from a different POV than Retro did. I want a new team to re-examine what made both Super Metroid AND Metroid Prime great, and apply even more new ideas to bringing Metroid into a more modern era. Little things like why the use of black and blue on the title screen of Super Metroid does so much to ooze that uneasy atmosphere. Or why unvailing narrative through exploration worked so well in Metroid Prime. Or why the movie Alien is such an important referance point to the atmosphere of Metroid. I want a new Metroid that borrows from Super Metroid, Metroid Prime, the movie Alien, and clever ideas from other games to create a game that is a different beast from Metroid Prime and Super Metroid.

Heck, why not make it completely 3rd person this time. If Metroid was originally meant to fuse Zelda with Mario, why not take that to where control, combat, perspective, and exploration is concerned. Make it control like a mixture between 3D Mario and 3D Zelda. A mixture of platforming tightness found in 3D Mario with the Z/L/ZL targeting found in 3D Zelda. With that perspective, they'd even be able to bring back moves like the Speed Booster and the sorely missed Shine Spark. Obviously though, I don't want it to do a shit job at being different like Other M did. I have faith that Nintendo can put a team together that can handle this, as long as it's not headed by Sakamoto or Miyamoto. They could even take members from both the Zelda and Mario teams and get them working together to make this new Metroid. Audio scans could be implemented instead of just readable scans. Omega Metroids could be implemented in a similar way to Big Daddies in Bioshock. So much could be done with new blood that just wouldn't otherwise.

I think the last reason why I don't want Retro to make another Metroid game is because I want them working on other things instead. I really want to see them Make a Diddy Kong Racing Returns. I really want to see them make a "Donkey Kong Planet" aka a 3D Donkey Kong Platformer in the same vain as their Returns series. I really want to see what they could do with an entirely new IP of their own. I think that they could even bring another old Nintendo back and give it new life. Maybe their next project could be Mother 4. I just feel like they've added all they've needed to add to Metroid. And if we're being frank, the quality of the games lessened with each iteration. Prime 2 and 3 were great games, but not as tightly made as the first Prime and I think that even they know that. I think they were tapped out and wanted to bring their expertise to different franchises, and I hope they continue that trend for a while longer before they tackle Metroid again.

And dear God, when they eventually do, it better not just be "Prime 4." That's just as unimaginative as "Galaxy 3."


maybe you will be pleased with a metroid on 3ds and we (prime fanboys) with the console version. win win.



I personally would prefer the next Metroid game be made by Retro Studios. Maybe after that, we could see Metroid being done by a different developer.



   

Personally I think Retro did a perfect job on the atmosphere on Prime, if ever they've derailed a bit with Prime 2 and Prime 3. And no I wouldn't like a 3rd person metroid, I'd prefer 1st person or side-scrolling.
Retro could do a lot of thing, my top priorities are a Metroid game or a new IP (for instance I'd like something on the vein of Resident Evil 4).



They'll announce us Diddy Kong Racing 2. It just makes too much sense.



My bet with The_Liquid_Laser: I think the Switch won't surpass the PS2 as the best selling system of all time. If it does, I'll play a game of a list that The_Liquid_Laser will provide, I will have to play it for 50 hours or complete it, whatever comes first. 

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spemanig said:

Controvercial, I know. Metroid Prime is one of my favorite games of all time. Retro made it. How can I not want Retro to make another one?

Well first, I think the knee jerk reaction is to think that Metroid is in dire need of Retro right now. After the utter abomination that was the the most recent entry in the series made by it's co-creator, the obvious reation would be to give it back to the guys who made the good Metroid. The three good Metroids.

Well here's the first reason why I'd rather Metroid be given to a new, still capable, studio. As much as I love Metroid Prime, and I LOVE Metroid Prime, it kiiiiiiinda doesn't really feel Metroid like a little bit. That's a weird thing for me to say, because in a lot of obvious ways, it clearly is Metroid. It's a giant world that you travers through caverns and tunnels in a pretty non linear way. It's isolating. It's atmospheric. That's all very Metroid, but there's something different about all the Prime games.

It's one of the reasons why, even if I ignore Prime's pacebreaking fetch quest, I can't say that I like it more than Super Metroid. The atmosphere in Super Metroid, and even in some parts of the underwhelming Metroid Fusion, is different to the one in Prime. And it's not because one is in 2D and one is in 3D. Prime has a distinctly... "space-y" vibe to it. It feels "galactic" or "stellar." I'd even compare it to Star Trek in how its atmosphere can feel. And that's not a bad thing. That works for the Prime games. I love that in the Prime games. But that's not what I feel like Metroid games should typically be. As great as the Prime game's are, they clearly are just a side story. That's why I feel like that vibe works for the Prime games, but I don't want any other Metroid games to feel like that.

Super Metroid on the other hand has a completely different atmosphere. I hate beating a dead horse, but it's partly because it really does feel like the movie "Alien." And don't get me wrong, it doesn't feel like that all the time, and there are many times where I'm exploring and it feels no different from Prime, but that distinctly eerie and unnerving feeling is almost completely absent from the Prime series. I don't want to say that Super Metroid is a scary game, because it isn't, but it does have a sci fi horror atmosphere that Prime lacks.

I think the title screens does a great job of showcasing the kind of atmosphere differences between that of Super and the Prime games.

Super Metroid Title screen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2-eg04TaKQ&spfreload=10

Metroid Prime Title screen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImlQEFqUIcU&spfreload=10

It's not that I don't think that Retro can make a game that brings that feeling back, but I just don't think they will. They have no reason to. The Prime games were rightfully never criticized for taking this element away from the series, but it's part of the reason I feel like we've never gotten gotten a true 3D Metroid game yet. Like Retro made Metroid: The Side Stories instead of Metroid 5. And again, that's FINE. I love the Prime games, but I want that Super Metroid of 3D Metroid, and I feel like we haven't gotten it yet. Unironically, Alien Isolation captures a little bit of that atmosphere. So does Bioshock.

But even the way they portray alien worlds is different. I rarely felt like I was exploring underground alien tunnels in the Prime games. It always felt like it took a more realistic approach to how these worlds would look like. In Super Metroid, it would rain spores and pollen. There would be entire catacombs lined with what looked like bubbles or fish eggs. Prime didn't do things like that in any of the games with the exception of the much more intentional phazon and one time where it rained static electricity. Again, this isn't a criticism, but I don't think Retro will ever feel the need to bring these elements into a 3D Metroid, because their absence in the Prime games wasn't a flaw. They were just two different types of games with two different types of goals, but I want just one 3D Metroid that sets out to do what Super did, just like Zelda U is setting out to do what Zelda 1 did. I just don't think Retro will do that. Not because they're not capable, but because they have no reason to stray away from the design philosophy used in Prime.

This is absolutely not to say that I want Sakamoto touching the Metroid franchise ever again, but I want a new team to try to tackle Metroid from a different POV than Retro did. I want a new team to re-examine what made both Super Metroid AND Metroid Prime great, and apply even more new ideas to bringing Metroid into a more modern era. Little things like why the use of black and blue on the title screen of Super Metroid does so much to ooze that uneasy atmosphere. Or why unvailing narrative through exploration worked so well in Metroid Prime. Or why the movie Alien is such an important referance point to the atmosphere of Metroid. I want a new Metroid that borrows from Super Metroid, Metroid Prime, the movie Alien, and clever ideas from other games to create a game that is a different beast from Metroid Prime and Super Metroid.

Heck, why not make it completely 3rd person this time. If Metroid was originally meant to fuse Zelda with Mario, why not take that to where control, combat, perspective, and exploration is concerned. Make it control like a mixture between 3D Mario and 3D Zelda. A mixture of platforming tightness found in 3D Mario with the Z/L/ZL targeting found in 3D Zelda. With that perspective, they'd even be able to bring back moves like the Speed Booster and the sorely missed Shine Spark. Obviously though, I don't want it to do a shit job at being different like Other M did. I have faith that Nintendo can put a team together that can handle this, as long as it's not headed by Sakamoto or Miyamoto. They could even take members from both the Zelda and Mario teams and get them working together to make this new Metroid. Audio scans could be implemented instead of just readable scans. Omega Metroids could be implemented in a similar way to Big Daddies in Bioshock. So much could be done with new blood that just wouldn't otherwise.

I think the last reason why I don't want Retro to make another Metroid game is because I want them working on other things instead. I really want to see them Make a Diddy Kong Racing Returns. I really want to see them make a "Donkey Kong Planet" aka a 3D Donkey Kong Platformer in the same vain as their Returns series. I really want to see what they could do with an entirely new IP of their own. I think that they could even bring another old Nintendo back and give it new life. Maybe their next project could be Mother 4. I just feel like they've added all they've needed to add to Metroid. And if we're being frank, the quality of the games lessened with each iteration. Prime 2 and 3 were great games, but not as tightly made as the first Prime and I think that even they know that. I think they were tapped out and wanted to bring their expertise to different franchises, and I hope they continue that trend for a while longer before they tackle Metroid again.

And dear God, when they eventually do, it better not just be "Prime 4." That's just as unimaginative as "Galaxy 3."


I agree with some things. This could all be summed up, however, as "I want Metroid 5, not Metroid Prime 4." I understand the difference. Thing is, I want both. For the same reason Mario can be in a kart racer, a party game, multiple styles of RPG, and multiple styles of platformer, Samus can be in multiple styles of game as well. Her main series and the Prime series are just that. They're like the Mario 64 style and NSMB style of Mario, but with Samus. When 3D World came out, it confused people. People divided Mario into 2D and 3D, but 3D World is really the "2D style" of Mario finally translated into 3D. Some people were rightfully angry, because they already had NSMBU in that style on the Wii U, and wanted the 64 style, and 3D World was not that. Both styles were platformers, but 3D World had the spirit of the classic Mario platformer style. However, both styles very much deserve to be continued, and the classic style very much deserved its 3D evolution that 3D Land/World brought it! Problem is, what gamers needed was the Mario 64 style. In the same way, Super Metroid style Metroid and Prime style Metroid both deserve to be made, but Metroid 5 is loooooong overdue. Miyamoto has said both will be continued, and everything seeme to point to Metroid 5 being the next to come, and it will probably be on 3DS, whether that pleases you or not. I think it will be the 3D evolution of Super Metroid you're looking for. Might even be N3DS exclusive to take advantage of the better hardware. Prime 4 will come later, and be on home consoles, maybe Wii U, maybe the next console, maybe even cross gen.

BUT! I actually agree on the Retro thing. Metroid 5 should NEVER be made by Retro, but that's obvious and beside the point. I've been thinking this for a while, but afraid to say it. When the time comes for the next Prime style game, it 1) should definitely not be called Prime 4 or even be connected to that side story, but rather be a new story, and 2) while Retro making it would probably turn out okay and not be a disaster, I think Retro has lost their passion for Metroid, and that's why they made another Donkey Kong game, and they should be able to make whatever they want. That's why Nintendo games turn out so well, Nintendo gives the developers freedom. If Retro has moved on, it's in everyone's best interest to just accept that. Let the team at Retro make what they're passionate about, and give someone else a chance at Prime style Metroid. Not sure who that should be, actually, but it should only be Retro if that's what they want to make. That is how we'll get good games.

 

Also, you're right, the next 3D Donkey Kong NEEDS to happen, and Retro would be a great candidate, though I doubt that's what they're doing if they're hiring for boss enemy AI coding. I'm personally hoping for a new IP.



Samus Aran said:

There are plenty of horror elements in the Prime trilogy.

Metroid Prime 2 is probably the most atmospheric and "creepy" game of the entire franchise. Besides, Echoes has the most references to Alien thus far: 

  • The idea of the main planet having a turbulent atmosphere which damages the protaganist's ship is a concept which also appears in Alien when the Nostromo is damaged while landing on LV-426 and has to stay on the planetoid until repairs are complete.
  • Samus being sent to Aether to restore contact with the troopers is another concept in Aliens in which Ripley and the Colonial Marines are sent to restore contact with the colony on LV-426.
  • The Splinter hive in the Federation Troopers' Ops base and the discovery of the dead troopers caught in webs is similar to the discovery of the Alien hive and cocooned colonists in the colony complex in Aliens.
  • The scene where Dark Samus aims at the real Samus when they first meet is, according to storyboards, based on the climax of Aliens.
  • The Federation Troopers can be considered similar to the Colonial Marines from Aliens.
  • The part where Splinters manage to get on board the Tyr and damage it beyond repair is similar to the scene in Aliens where an Alien boards the first Sulaco dropship and kills the pilots, causing it to crash, stranding the remaining survivors.
  • One of the deceased Marines, PFC G. Haley, is described to have lost his sanity during the Splinter attack. This is similar to Hudson, one of the characters from Aliens, who also loses his sanity when all hope of surviving the mission on LV-426 is lost.


Even in Metroid Prime 3 we have the abandonned spaceship Valhalla that was the victim of a space pirate attack. In the ship lurk all kinds of phazon enhanced creatures and the bodies of the victims (both marines and space pirates) tell brutal stories. The metroids leaving behind empty shells of bodies that desintegrate on touch was also a nice addition.


I never said that the Prime games don't reference Alien, but they don't have the same atmosphere at all. And I would absolutely disagree that Prime 2 is the creepiest of the series. Definitey the most uncomfortable in a good way, but not the creepiest.

If you think that I made all of that to simply say that I wanted more "horror" elements in Metroid, then I clearly did a bad job of protraying what I want. Super Metroid had an atmosphere that wasn't present at all in Prime. That's not me criticizing Prime; Prime was good and that atmoshpere would have clashed with the stories those games tried to tell. That same atmospere is present in Alien, and it's present in Metroid Fusion a little bit with SA-X, but it is the entire game of Alien Isolation. And I don't want an entire Metroid game to feel like that, but Prime didn't feel anything like that. There are parts of Prime that feel almost exactly like parts of Metroid games, like the Under Water Frigate, but there are parts that feel nothing like it, like the entire "star trek" atmosphere and lack of "Alien" atmosphere.

And it's not so much the "horror" that I'm focusing on. I made sure to use words like eerie and unnerving because I didn't want anyone to think that I just wanted a scarier Metroid. That's not the point. It's things like seeing the muscles desolve off of Crocomire so that only his sceleton remained. It's how grossly organic much of it felt as opposed to futuristic and cybernetic. Craid didn't feel like a giant monster, but a giant reptile. Any place with tech had a distinct "1980s" spin on it that Prime doesn't have, but Isolation does. I don't even like Isolation, but I think it nails an atmosphere not felt in any game since Super, and done in a completely different way in Bioshock.

And again, I'm not criticizing Prime. Prime's atmosphere was perfect in all three games. I just want something different, and I don't think Retro would do that.



I do.

And what I want is more important than what you want.



Sigs are dumb. And so are you!

AZWification said:

If not Retro, then who is going to make a great Prime 4? :/


Hopefully no one ever.



Ezquimacore said:

maybe you will be pleased with a metroid on 3ds and we (prime fanboys) with the console version. win win.


No. I want a console game. I want a 2D Metroid on the 3DS. And I'm still a Prime fan. I just don't want anymore of them. Just like Super Mario Galaxy is my absolute favorite Mario game, but I'll barf if they make another one. People just need to let a good thing go so something new, better, and different can come along.