I would suggest you get a dictionary and look up the word "extreme". You are swinging from one end to the other and somehow think you can logically argue either point. As I said, you need moderation. Hiding everything is just as bad as letting it all hang out. Both obsess over their body and how much to show. Like I said....what happened to the middle ground. (You don't think this is the first time I've argued this right?)

If you are a hetrosexual man, you will find breasts arrousing unless you have some major underlying issue such as depression....but that doesn't mean they are not arousing, but that you have a disorder preventing yourself from having the normal reaction.

"Hiding everything is just as bad as letting it all hang out. Both obsess over their body and how much to show."

ok so hiding her body does not empower a woman as you said before?

well actually personally i have no problem with any arrangement, it is actually you who had the problem with revealing clothing

and as i said women who are fighting for to be empowered disagree with you they, for example, want to be able to walk around topless

they do not find this to be degrading as you said and i'd have to take them more seriously since they are in fact women

"If you are a hetrosexual man, you will find breasts arrousing unless you have some major underlying issue such as depression....but that doesn't mean they are not arousing, but that you have a disorder preventing yourself from having the normal reaction."

that is not true, attraction and arousal happen across a spectrum they aren't black and white as you said

Ah, so this is a pedantic argument then. Ok, I'll spell it out to you so you can wrap your head around such a simple idea; a basic level of modesty helps anyone (male or female), however either extreme (full exposure or total cover) is unhealthy and hinders the person. Too much on show means the woman is wanting to be recognised primarily by her body, and full cover means they are ashamed/do not understand how people work e.g. Why cover up your knees? Not many people have knee fetishes so why cover it up, especially in a hot climate?

And that is my point; moderation. A word you keep ignoring thus I recommend you go look it up.

As for topless women, did you not read what I said about sexual organs? And why take them seriously? They are a tiny minority and most women would agree they are full of crap....but of course you seem to back the loudest but smallest groups.

Wrong, arousal is instinctive. It is what makes some human. Unless you have a disability or illness, it is the same for everyone. If you want to argue that, go get some journals that prove your point as there is a plethora of literature on my argument (and as mine is the most widely held opinion, you need to back up your point).

"Too much on show means the woman is wanting to be recognised primarily by her body"

Tell that to nudist women they'll just laugh at you

"They are a tiny minority and most women would agree they are full of crap"

fair enough i would agree that they are a minority, but their opinion is their opinion

"Wrong, arousal is instinctive. It is what makes some human. Unless you have a disability or illness, it is the same for everyone."

I didn't say arousal wasn't instinctive

however, i did say the stimuli for arousal wasn't the same for everyone and i stand by that

The whole "expression of freedom" notion is pretty naive.

Since the character was designed with Japanese game developer sensibilities, Kamiya (director) was shooting for a certain commercial appeal. Not the broadest commercial appeal given the content, but Bayonetta was clearly designed with a specific audience in mind.

As for being sexist, I don't want to play the "sex card," but Bayonetta was designed by a woman. Obviously, not every woman on the planet has the same idea of how women should be portrayed in games and frankly, neither should men.

>
Mari Shimazaki designed the game's characters to be "fashionable", with "subdued" features.[26] She designed the titular character to fulfill Kamiya's request for a modern, female witch that wears glasses and wields four guns,[20] and the two settled on her original concept for the character despite her work "over a year" on other concepts.[27] Bayonetta emerged as a long-haired, black-clothed witch with a beehive hairdo (in place of the traditional pointy hat) and glasses (which Kamiya "really pushed for ... to differentiate Bayonetta from other female characters and give her a sense of mystery and intelligence").[20] Conversely, Shimazaki "didn't require a huge amount of effort" to design Bayonetta's short-haired, red-clothed rival Jeanne, who merely wears her glasses on her head above her eyes. She added plumes to Jeanne's handguns to add movement to the design, and thick makeup to Jeanne's face to "make [her] feel like something out of the 1960s". Though Shimazaki preferred Bayonetta, Jeanne turned out to be the more popular of the two witches among Kamiya and the development team.[26] Still, in an April 2009 interview, Kamiya called the former "in many ways ... my ideal woman".[19]
>

Because nudists are the majority..............

Their opinion can also be wrong and based on utter crap, so just saying "it's their opinion" means sweet f'a =D  

Got proof of the latter part? Becaue basic biology would beg to differ.

whether nudists are a majority or not is irrelevent

people that play video games are a minority so what?

does that mean that it is wrong for you to like video games or discuss them

do you see how silly that is? lol

"Got proof of the latter part? Becaue basic biology would beg to differ."

you are aware that there are places on Earth where women never cover their breasts right?

there are also places on Earth where obese women are seen as being the most attractive women

as i said attraction occurs on a spectrum what you are attracted to is not necessarily what i will be attracted to and so on

Er no. If some group is a tiny minority and lack anything like science or logic to back up their opinion, then it is irrelevant. Why not take into account every random and obscure view on this topic? Derp. I mean gaming? The industry that rakes in more than Hollywood is now comparible to nudists? Right.......

Again, these "places" are not even countries but tiny, tiny groups. You always have outliers in stats, so again, why are you including them?  So no, I am right and you need to go get some facts as your argument is "but someone out of 7 billion people might be different"....which isn't an argument but more of a random and pointless statement.

Freedom should have limits.

i think this discussion is going way off course... you're basically saying that if someone chooses to do something that is not done by the majority of people then they are "wrong"

and i honestly can't believe i have to explain why that is stupid

then again that may be your belief i personally believe that anyone should be free to do whatever they please once it has no negative impact on the organisms around them