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Forums - Gaming Discussion - New Final Fantasy XV Footage + Battle System Details

This is the most daring project in SE history. I just admire that. I wish people would just be open minded and try to understand it for what it is.

That would never happen on the Internet though :)



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Seemed like hack'n'slash in slow motion, without combos.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

HyrulianScrolls said:

I mean I hate to be a downer about this game again (believe me it's getting old), but from what he described the combat system sounds ridiculously simple. Like even more simple than the uber simple KH2 combat system. It will get very boring very quickly if there's not a lot more to it than block, attack, special attack.

Sincerely, for the life of me.... I cannot even begin to fathom how you arrived at that conclusion from everything that was said. Could it be that this is all so different that you just don't understand it? And if that is the case does it automatically make everything a bad thing?

but from what he described the combat system sounds ridiculously simple - What sounds simple about this combat system. First off you have a gambit system, if you don't know what this is this is being able to customize the AI of your supporting chracters. Its literally an AI editor. You select conditions from a vast number of conditions and match them with a vast number of actions. Some may say your party members auto play, but they only auto play as well as you set them to auto play. And by all indications it appears to be a gambit system leaps and bounds more complex than the last time such a system was used in a FF game. You set up your gambits poorly, and you will sink into micro-managemnet hell that will make it practically impossible to beat some enemies or keep up with the overall faster pace of only really having to worry about one primary character. Some make the mistake of thinking or assuming that controling just one characetr means their is less to do. They couldn't be more wrong. KH didn't have anyway for you to directly control your support characters. Only control you had over them was what you equipped them with and their special atacks.

It will get very boring very quickly if there's not a lot more to it than block, attack, special attack.-  Block, attack and special attack. Associating this to gauranteed boredom is reeking ignorance or bias to say the least (not saying this offensively). By ignorance I mean have you ever sat down to consider just how many games thrive on just those button inputs? Are you ignorant to the fact of how these prompts can be expanded in a game? Entire combat systems in some fighter games are based on just a pucnh, kick and block button. That didn't stop those games from having hundreds of possible moves combinations. Then bias in the sense that assuming the first thing i said is true, why does it suddenlt not apply to FF. Here is another way to look at it, in no other FF game was there a dedicated button for special attack, jump or block/evade. That alone right there is more depth than any FF game before it that basically had you cycling menus and hitting the X button for 100+ hours. If that didn't get boring I don't see how this will. If i really wanted to get into it (more than I already am) I could list out 6 different kinda attacks right off the top of my head that you can do with just the atack button and not involving spells. I can list out another 6 for moves you can do from a jump, or an evade or in conjuction with party members and I am not even touching the influnnce of the equipped weapon on the primary or secondary chracter that wil no doubt give variations to those moves. If this explanation of the combat system sounds a lot better than what you have envisioned, its nothing to do with me being more imaginative... rather everything to do with me being more open minded and knowing which games have influenced their combat system. 

And I will say again... there is a jump button. JUMP button. In a FF game!!! 




binary solo said:
Seemed like hack'n'slash in slow motion, without combos.

I will just assume that people are hell bent on just not actually looking at this game.

  • You see that sword that marks the enemy, everytime that happens it means you have locked on to the enemy.
  • Notice every attack starts the same way, that means the player was tapping the attack button and not holding to continue the chain.
  • every warp to tehe enemy the player makes is another button. And you can se there is  some skill on how best to use it.
  • every time you see the player roll away or even warp away it means the evade button has been hit. And from this it seems like there is also a warp variation to the evade system.
I honestly don't know if I am just seeing a completely different game from a lot of posters.


VXIII said:

This is the most daring project in SE history. I just admire that. I wish people would just be open minded and try to understand it for what it is.

That would never happen on the Internet though :)

It may well be and it's using the main series of Final Fantasy to do it, just like 11 did. I'm open minded because I love the main KH games and am open to new ideas in the FF setup but like I've said before, sometimes sticking to tradition can be the way forward, don't chop and change what has worked to make something new when it is that tradition that has pulled in the masses for sales year after year. Many are fans of the traditional style of gameplay, the basics (ATB, tactical battles only in battle, while I love FF12, being able to buff your characters with everything before you even encounter and enemy removed from the tactical play of having to buff your characters before proper confrontation) may not be willing to pick up a game that breaks from tradition as much.

I find it odd that many claim we should just accept the changes, when I'm pretty sure many would outrage at the idea of the next next CoD being a TPS, it's still control of a person shooting people isn't it? 



Hmm, pie.

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binary solo said:
Seemed like hack'n'slash in slow motion, without combos.

You are usually one of my favorite posters here. So don't ruin you image by NOT basing your judgment on the in-depth info that we have.

It is about combo, it is about the flow of motion while interacting with the party members (gambits) and the world elements.



The Fury said:
VXIII said:

This is the most daring project in SE history. I just admire that. I wish people would just be open minded and try to understand it for what it is.

That would never happen on the Internet though :)

It may well be and it's using the main series of Final Fantasy to do it, just like 11 did. I'm open minded because I love the main KH games and am open to new ideas in the FF setup but like I've said before, sometimes sticking to tradition can be the way forward, don't chop and change what has worked to make something new when it is that tradition that has pulled in the masses for sales year after year. Many are fans of the traditional style of gameplay, the basics (ATB, tactical battles only in battle, while I love FF12, being able to buff your characters with everything before you even encounter and enemy removed from the tactical play of having to buff your characters before proper confrontation) may not be willing to pick up a game that breaks from tradition as much.

I find it odd that many claim we should just accept the changes, when I'm pretty sure many would outrage at the idea of the next next CoD being a TPS, it's still control of a person shooting people isn't it? 

 

First, let be clear about something. Being a turn-based battle system doesn't mean it is more tactical by default, that is just a misconception. Dark souls for example is as tactical as a game could get with all the kinds of buff and weakness elements. and it is an action based. The level of depth that Final Fantasy usually offer can be implied in an action based battle system, That way I'm ok with it.

Final Fantasy, unlike the example you have mentioned, is a franchise of a changing nature. That's why every single game could be the best for some, but the worst for others. This is nothing new. It is hard to point a finger at what make a FF game a FF, It is something in the details. Take XIII for example, even though it is turn-based, Many people were / are upset because it just doesn't "feel" like a FF. The world, characters, graphics, style, dialog, animations, music. Every little detail matter.

Looking back at the history of the franchise, they always have implied elements to make the battle more engaging and faster. Conditional Turn-Based, Active Time Battle and even Real Time Battle in XI, ( fun fact: design by the same person who designed Chrono Trigger system ), Active Dimension Battle in XII which was forward thinking but wasn't executed well imo, ans Style-Change Active Time Battle in LR XIII. with all that taken into consideration, XV system is indeed a natural progress. These are fundamentally different systems, all driven by the desire to make the gameplay more dynamic. Not changing the "tradition system" is really not traditional in FF :)

With that said, I understand why some fans would prefer to keep it turn-based. But that is a terrible reason not to give this new daring vision a chance, that what I mean by "accept the changes".



VXIII said:

Looking back at the history of the franchise, they always have implied elements to make the battle more engaging and faster. Conditional Turn-Based, Active Time Battle and even Real Time Battle in XI, ( fun fact: design by the same person who designed Chrono Trigger system ), Active Dimension Battle in XII which was forward thinking but wasn't executed well imo, ans Style-Change Active Time Battle in LR XIII. with all that taken into consideration, XV system is indeed a natural progress. These are fundamentally different systems, all driven by the desire to make the gameplay more dynamic. Not changing the "tradition system" is really not traditional in FF :)

With that said, I understand why some fans would prefer to keep it turn-based. But that is a terrible reason not to give this new daring vision a chance, that what I mean by "accept the changes".

I've removed some of your post and my reply to it because I realised was I rambling about nothing.. but...

ATB served them well for years, nothing wrong with it, infact in X they slowed the game down, removing the ATB a sequence of actions instead. Since the traditional ATB was dropped in 9, most consider the games are getting worse. XI was an MMO and many people didn't want that. XII, while a great game, wasn't considered in FF ilk, many didn't like it. 13, well you know, fans didn't like it and hardly anyone played LRXIII. XV may be the natural progression but it's a progression fans of the traditional battle setup do not want. 

Even if these games are selling well, it's because fans are buying them on the hope that the games have what they want. They are fans of the FF series for it's gameplay amoung other things, and a KH like comabt (even if it is not KH) is not FF gameplay.

Let's put it this way, if they made Tekken more like Street Fighter, I would not buy it, daring new gameplay it might be. I like Tekken for it's gameplay, not Street Fighter's gameplay.



Hmm, pie.

The Fury said:
VXIII said:

Looking back at the history of the franchise, they always have implied elements to make the battle more engaging and faster. Conditional Turn-Based, Active Time Battle and even Real Time Battle in XI, ( fun fact: design by the same person who designed Chrono Trigger system ), Active Dimension Battle in XII which was forward thinking but wasn't executed well imo, ans Style-Change Active Time Battle in LR XIII. with all that taken into consideration, XV system is indeed a natural progress. These are fundamentally different systems, all driven by the desire to make the gameplay more dynamic. Not changing the "tradition system" is really not traditional in FF :)

With that said, I understand why some fans would prefer to keep it turn-based. But that is a terrible reason not to give this new daring vision a chance, that what I mean by "accept the changes".

I've removed some of your post and my reply to it because I realised was I rambling about nothing.. but...

ATB served them well for years, nothing wrong with it, infact in X they slowed the game down, removing the ATB a sequence of actions instead. Since the traditional ATB was dropped in 9, most consider the games are getting worse. XI was an MMO and many people didn't want that. XII, while a great game, wasn't considered in FF ilk, many didn't like it. 13, well you know, fans didn't like it and hardly anyone played LRXIII. XV may be the natural progression but it's a progression fans of the traditional battle setup do not want. 

Even if these games are selling well, it's because fans are buying them on the hope that the games have what they want. They are fans of the FF series for it's gameplay amoung other things, and a KH like comabt (even if it is not KH) is not FF gameplay.

Let's put it this way, if they made Tekken more like Street Fighter, I would not buy it, daring new gameplay it might be. I like Tekken for it's gameplay, not Street Fighter's gameplay.


I understand, I just don't agree that is not a FF gameplay, I see no good reason for such a claim. it is not 100% KH system, it is really a mix between KH and XII with its own tweaks.



VXIII said:
binary solo said:
Seemed like hack'n'slash in slow motion, without combos.

You are usually one of my favorite posters here. So don't ruin you image by NOT basing your judgment on the in-depth info that we have.

It is about combo, it is about the flow of motion while interacting with the party members (gambits) and the world elements.

I don't want to damage my reputation so I should clarify. I started watching the video wanting to be impressed by the gameplay, but I wasn't. I don't think needing to explain to people how it is that the gameplay is exciting is a very good sign, so I did not look to read in-depth info to explain it.

As I was watching, and not being impressed by what I was seeing, I was trying to think about why I'm not impressed, and hack'n'slash in slow motion without combos is what came to mind. I don't mind slow-motion combat per se, but when it has the appearance of hack'n'slash style play then pace is a key element, to me. And combos with awesome animations are part of it too.

That's not to say I am entirely put off the game. I can overlook relatively uninspired combat gameplay if there is strong story and engaging characters. In fact as an ageing gamer I seem to care much more about story and characters than combat gameplay these days, especially if a game is going to hold my interest for more than 10 hours.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix