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Forums - Politics - Where did the Big Bang Come from?

VXIII said:

The first "cause", someone / something that is beyond the law of physics, timeless, and like no other thing that you can observe or fully understand.

 

Either you are a religious or "scientific", it requires you lot of faith to form a belief about this subject. The two debating camps have a lot in common and they never really realized it.

Not unless you're neo-christian or creationist. Science have become a taboo subject  to a lot of them recently. Islamic countries on the other hand  are too dumb to understand half of it and too preoccupied about killing one another, so they just don't bother making it taboo. "Better blow some jihad out and kill  those kafara than debate. Either way we're going to heaven anyways" it's like the Islamic way of saying "Yolo" but it was took to the next level "You only live truly after death " YOLTAD", they should shout that instead of "takbir" 



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PullusPardus said:
VXIII said:

The first "cause", someone / something that is beyond the law of physics, timeless, and like no other thing that you can observe or fully understand.

 

Either you are a religious or "scientific", it requires you lot of faith to form a belief about this subject. The two debating camps have a lot in common and they never really realized it.

Not unless you're neo-christian or creationist. Science have become a taboo subject  to a lot of them recently. Islamic countries on the other hand  are too dumb to understand half of it and too preoccupied about killing one another, so they just don't bother making it taboo. "Better blow some jihad out and kill  those kafara than debate. Either way we're going to heaven anyways" it's like the Islamic way of saying "Yolo" but it was took to the next level "You only live truly after death " YOLTAD", they should shout that instead of "takbir" 

"..قُلْ سِيرُوا فِي الْأَرْضِ فَانْظُرُوا كَيْفَ بَدَأَ الْخَلْقَ"

"Travel through the land and think about how creation  has began .."

I care about the original principles, I don't care about how people do or where they end up.



Jereel Hunter said:

To be accurate, athiests tend to have more secular education, but it's not as simple as "the more you learn, the less you attribute to God." That is on par with claiming that the more you learn, the less you need food (because more educated people are far less likely to be farmers.)  Those who focus on education are less likely to believe in God, but they are a lot less likely to have invested significant time considering him a viable option, and learning about that. While I do think that education can cause many beliefs to be contradicted, it doesn't change the validity of the source of those beliefs. (I.e. person X believes things about God which go both against science, and aren't supported by the Bible. When these beliefs are showed to be factually false(i.e. 6 thousand year old earth), he loses his faith, never realizing the scientific facts don't actually contradict what is actually in the Bible - just his faulty interpretation)

There's also the factorthat being educated makes you feel more equipped to make decisions on things which you have no knowledge about. "I am well educated, I don't believe in all that stuff." There was a period when doctors, in general, felt that it was insulting if someone suggested they need to wash their hands. They were very educated gentlemen, and their hands were clean enough. Ignaz Semmelweis drastically reduced infant mortality rates, simply by washing his hands, before deliverying babies... but his peers didn't want to hear it. 


Well they are definitely not on par. Because that food statement makes no sense as food is not a notion with contradicting evidence pertaining to its existence. I also dont reward food for creation and life and gaps in knowledge with my praise. People that learn could become presists, but they nolonger say 'thats a demon causing your cough, Gods cross will fix ya up' becuase they learnt its probably a virus and they just need rest. The more you learn the less that will generally be left to magic, i dont need to thank someone for my existence because i learnt that life can and will occur naturally, the building blocks for life tend to naturally form. I also see evolution, i see animals changing from one species into another within my life time, i see useless body parts and organs that have no meaning and can kill me, yet i have them because they aren't so detrimental to our species as to be selected against. I have huge gaps in my knowledge but i dont attribute those gaps to a god. God(s) have never been proven and have no tangible relevence in anyones life. Most of the world does not believe in the same god and they have advanced fine without eachothers notion. Over time the more that humans learned the less relevant God became in our lives. We do not take our children to a priest when they are sick, we take them to doctors. We do not exorcise mentally ill patients anymore, we take them to phycologists.

 

I spent alot of my life, as have other people, around churches and spend a significant portion of my life invested in the notion of god. Athiests don't just believe what they do because they were raised in a household built around it (generally). Especially in America and western cultures that have, at least in NA, 95% of people identify with christianity. We usually become atheist because i read the bible to death and thought: wait that doesnt make sense. And other things i do not agree with such as god allowing salvery, rape and murder and commanding people to do it. God teaches me how to handle my slaves and how to beat them, God teaches me it is ok to take virgins for myself and to kill the rest becaue they dont believe like they should.I also know that the world isnt flat and you can 'see each corner' from a huge tree. Through learning I know that noahs ark couldnt have come to be as there is millions of animals that supposedly fit on a boat smaller than the titanic.

 

 

Those doctors were ignorant of certain things we know to be factual in todays time, and it goes to show that as time went by , the more we learnt. Just because they felt that they knew enough doesnt mean others did or else research would of stopped and no one would be washing their hands today and my studies would be meaningless.



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spurgeonryan said:

ok....fair enough. Where did god come from? At least he says he is almighty and omnipotent. He does not beat around the bush. The Big Bang theory is all over the place! What is going on with it?
So yes, I am like a Greek who thought lightning came from the gods. Yet some of you blindly go with whatever science says even though there are no answers usually, and even when there are answers it in no way disproves there is a god or not. Your grade school teacher or college professor taught you that god is not real and that evolution is a fact as is the big bang. So you are willing to fight to the end no matter what to make them right. You learned it your whole life, so why wouldn't you? Same with me. I was raised on Christian beliefs. So I will also fight for what I believe. But besides us both agreeing that evolution is real, which it is. Why not? And that there was probably a big bang. Why not again? God probably did bang the universe into creation. If he is real. Right?
There really is not difference between us. Neither faiths have any facts to go by, besides a dusty old book that was chosen for us to read by some Roman council 2000 years ago, and a theory of The Big Bang!
We are the same. Both have faith without any proof, and nothing really makes any sense either way you look at it.


See that's the thing about God. Since he's nothing but a human idea, humans can also change their perception to fit anything science says. If I find out what caused the big bang, you could just say "Well, maybe god made it so that the big-bang would start like that". There's no actual way to disprove god, as he's an idea, in something that's impossible to measure.



justgames7604 said:


Well they are definitely not on par. Because that food statement makes no sense as food is not a notion with contradicting evidence pertaining to its existence. I also dont reward food for creation and life and gaps in knowledge with my praise. People that learn could become presists, but they nolonger say 'thats a demon causing your cough, Gods cross will fix ya up' becuase they learnt its probably a virus and they just need rest. The more you learn the less that will generally be left to magic, i dont need to thank someone for my existence because i learnt that life can and will occur naturally, the building blocks for life tend to naturally form. I also see evolution, i see animals changing from one species into another within my life time, i see useless body parts and organs that have no meaning and can kill me, yet i have them because they aren't so detrimental to our species as to be selected against. I have huge gaps in my knowledge but i dont attribute those gaps to a god. God(s) have never been proven and have no tangible relevence in anyones life. Most of the world does not believe in the same god and they have advanced fine without eachothers notion. Over time the more that humans learned the less relevant God became in our lives. We do not take our children to a priest when they are sick, we take them to doctors. We do not exorcise mentally ill patients anymore, we take them to phycologists.

 

I spent alot of my life, as have other people, around churches and spend a significant portion of my life invested in the notion of god. Athiests don't just believe what they do because they were raised in a household built around it (generally). Especially in America and western cultures that have, at least in NA, 95% of people identify with christianity. We usually become atheist because i read the bible to death and thought: wait that doesnt make sense. And other things i do not agree with such as god allowing salvery, rape and murder and commanding people to do it. God teaches me how to handle my slaves and how to beat them, God teaches me it is ok to take virgins for myself and to kill the rest becaue they dont believe like they should.I also know that the world isnt flat and you can 'see each corner' from a huge tree. Through learning I know that noahs ark couldnt have come to be as there is millions of animals that supposedly fit on a boat smaller than the titanic.

 

 

Those doctors were ignorant of certain things we know to be factual in todays time, and it goes to show that as time went by , the more we learnt. Just because they felt that they knew enough doesnt mean others did or else research would of stopped and no one would be washing their hands today and my studies would be meaningless.

You think you talk about God, but you make quite a confusion between very different concepts, such as God, Monotheist God, religion, religious authority, and superstition.

First,
- God is a concept of something/someone beyond humanity. You are absolutely not talking about that.
- The monotheist God is the idea of an omnipotent, omniscient God that exists before anything. You are not really talking about that.

An then, there is:
- The religion, which is a common belief and concept for a perticular God. It includes the Bible and its strange or illogical stories. There is no way denying the logic of the Bible would lead to deny God or the monotheist God.
- The religious authority, which is a human organization that as such tends to be in search for growth, control, power, but also... makes mistake. That included making the priest, Church and Bible the single source of reference. Which lead to make the science a competitor as a reference, but also a risk for the power balance so far in favor of the religion. Which lead at some point of time to the flat earth belief protection, which is not a constant in Christian religion (see wikipedia), not even a statement of its Bible, and not a word of God (if any).
- The Bible which the religious authory and religion is partly based on. Man-made, translated multiple times, different possible interpretations, part symbolic, part truth, it would very wrong to make the validity or morality of it a decision point about God.
- And last but not least, superstition. The idea that a cross will prevent a disease. And it's plain stupidity, for quite a lot of them it was spread by religious authorities, but it's not related to the existence or not of God, a monotheist God, the pertinence of the Bible, etc.

So, educated people believe less in God, but their education has an impact on what is the less directly related to God. Myself I think I can say I'm educated, and I'm atheist, but the explanation of why would be a lot more complex than "religion is full of crap".



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We have a lot of evidence for the big bang, but no, we don't know what caused it. Whatever. We probably never will.



Mystro-Sama said:

Most Atheists i've spoken to dropped the smartass attitude after that question. Not to mention that they can't seem to answer the question of how an existence without consciousness can create an existence with consciousness.

There is a lot of evidence which points towards the big bang being the most probable cuase for the existance of the universe as we know it today,

but the truth is that science does not know. And that is fine. Just because we do not know does not mean we should jump to conclusions of magical beings in the sky.

So i pose the question to you, what was there before god?



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MTZehvor said:
VanceIX said:
Mystro-Sama said:

Most Atheists i've spoken to dropped the smartass attitude after that question. Not to mention that they can't seem to answer the question of how an existence without consciousness can create an existence with consciousness.

But in that case, who created the conciousness that created the conciouss existence? 

There wouldn't need to be anyone; if a being exists outside of the universe, it is not bound by the laws that exist within this universe, such as time (and, by extension, the need to have a beginning). 

If a being exists outside the universe?!?!?!?!

You cannot make that assertion without any evidence or reasoning behind it. 



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