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Forums - Politics - Where did the Big Bang Come from?

pokoko said:
Shadow1980 said:

And since God was brought up, well, fun fact: the first man to propose the Big Bang theory was Georges Henri Lemaitre, who was a priest as well as a scientist. The Big Bang theory, like every other theory in science, is no more "atheistic" than, say, our theories on how light or gravity work.

Where I used to work, we'd get in a lot of old men who would hang out and talk about god.  They would argue the finer points because they were different denominations but they'd unite to combat the evils of science.  I remember one of them passing out some anti-evolution literature which they had a big "amen" fest over.  Without saying what I personally believed, I did point out that some of the information in the pamphlet was inaccurate.  That did not go over well at all.

After that, I decided to run a little experiment.  In the following months, I would talk about evolution but instead of saying "evolution", I'd use the word "nature".  Pretty much everything I talked about met with agreement or, at the least, was considered respectfully.  However, any discussion were the word "evolution" was mentioned met with immediate rejection.

It's such a false dichotomy, this idea that everything with religion and science has to be either/or.  I don't really understand it sometimes.

Humans like black and white, when where are so many shades in between. Just watch a democrat and a republican argue - Both seem to think the opposing viewpoint will bring the certain downfall of America. Many Christians can disregard science, taking Biblical statements as literal that were clearly never meant to be. (I.e. the earth being created in 6 literal days only 6,000 years ago) Meanwhile athiests mock the idea of God being as unrealistic as Santa Claus.

I don't see why either side considers evolution to be an idea in opposition to God. Maybe the idea of all life stemming from it, sure. But the idea that organisms can evolve? If someone made a Robot that could grow and modify itself to continually adjust, enabling it to survive in environments it previously couldn't, and perform tasks it wasn't programmed to do... Noone would think it was proof that the robot evolved on its own. It'd be evidence that whoever made it was... pretty darn good at making robots. We have so many man made disasters (i.e. Chernobyl, gulf oil spill) and suddenly, previously unknown bacteria pops up, and cleans up these hazards in a fraction of the anticipated time. Whenever people damage it, the earth immediately begins repairing itself. Many people perceive that as fortunate evolution. Rather than proof of an amazing design.

In the end, most people end up believing what they want to believe, and people want black and white answers. 



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justgames7604 said:
o_O.Q said:
KylieDog said:


And before that?

that means that nothing happened prior, that there was no start and will be no end


see youre already wrong, time is finite it has a start. It is tangible and can be persuaded and slowed with gravity.

there is no contradiction there



You do realize that we have evidence of the Big-Bang right?

Anyways, on to my wall of text:

When all matter "dissolves" into radiation (yes, such a thing will happen eventually, that is a fact), that means everything moves at the speed of light because radiation is light. When everything moves at the speed of light there is no such thing as time because of general and special relativity (relativity has been proven!). And without time there's no such thing as distance, meaning that without distance everything is in one infinetly small place. It's not the same as a black hole besides perhaps the singularity, but we don't know much about the physics of black holes. Back to the point, When there's no such thing as distance, when everything is in the same infinetly small spot, that means that all energy, all matter in the universe is just there, that infinetly small spot is the "seed" of the big bang. The big bang it self then happens instantly and after forever (yes, both at the same time, because time doesn't exist before matter exists.). Understanding what actually triggers/triggered the Big Bang is really hard/impossible, but there are hundreds or thousands of physicists working on figuring that out.

Note that this is just one of multiple theories, but it's the one that I've personally found as the best on this matter. (I have no qualification to decide the "trueness" of theories though).



The big bang theory came from those seeking an answer to the universal question, where do we come from?

The fact that many modern (atheist) scientist debunk the whole theory is usually forgotten. I am no expert on the matter but when I studied it from a personal perspective the arguments they put up against it made more sense.
To each their own opinion.

After teaching millions of people at institutes this theory it is not an easy task to suddenly rubbish it.

I will be surprised if this theory survives another 50 years.

Time will tell one way or the other.






Dont be so afraid to answer what we dont know with a: "We dont know".

The compulsive need for an answer however implausable is a need your brain has to tidy up things inside. Its difficult for us to imagine the infine for example, because of that. The tendency to go for the simpler explanation is also another vice our brains go for, for this same reason. The brain prefers the path of least resistance.

You may choose to believe in a God, but that answer is merely a placeholder and not the real answer, because we simply dont know yet. If we all rejected that fact, we would never discover the truth.



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justgames7604 said:
Isnt the bigbang just an expanse of matter? Seems reasonable as atoms are just 99% wasted space caused by the repulsion of electrons. I believe if you removed all that wasted space earth woukd fit into a tea cup. Black holes, from my understanding is just a mass of gravity, it can be caused by collapsing stars and what not. And time can also be affected by gravity to the point it flows slower in in places of extreme gravity.

This is not my field though, i study biochemistry. Physics is so vast and complex, i think this kind of topic needs higher forms of education to really get into it. People dont need 6+ years of research and learning to become a physicist for no reason.

It is also the reason atheists tend to be very well educated because the more you learn the less you can attribute to God(s).

To be accurate, athiests tend to have more secular education, but it's not as simple as "the more you learn, the less you attribute to God." That is on par with claiming that the more you learn, the less you need food (because more educated people are far less likely to be farmers.)  Those who focus on education are less likely to believe in God, but they are a lot less likely to have invested significant time considering him a viable option, and learning about that. While I do think that education can cause many beliefs to be contradicted, it doesn't change the validity of the source of those beliefs. (I.e. person X believes things about God which go both against science, and aren't supported by the Bible. When these beliefs are showed to be factually false(i.e. 6 thousand year old earth), he loses his faith, never realizing the scientific facts don't actually contradict what is actually in the Bible - just his faulty interpretation)

There's also the factorthat being educated makes you feel more equipped to make decisions on things which you have no knowledge about. "I am well educated, I don't believe in all that stuff." There was a period when doctors, in general, felt that it was insulting if someone suggested they need to wash their hands. They were very educated gentlemen, and their hands were clean enough. Ignaz Semmelweis drastically reduced infant mortality rates, simply by washing his hands, before deliverying babies... but his peers didn't want to hear it. 



Sometimes the world seems so huge and full of miracles in even the tiniest things that you get this overwhelming feeling of never being able to comprehend the world you're living in.
For some people this may lead to accept the concept of a god.
Probably because all of this stunning world around yourself seems impossible to be originating from random events without any guidance of a `higher` power.
For me this power is nature itself, which we try to understand better by researching it. Even though we probably never will understand it to the deepest origin.
And science is nothing that explains nature but merely describes it. We can learn about gravity, qed, qcd and so on. And those studies help to describe the world and create tools for us. But it doesn't explain why there is gravity and so on to begin with.
To make it short i don't know where our universe originates from but it's fun to philosophy about it.
But religious beliefs, whether your following the Bible Quran or whatever, seem very silly to me. They are just stories written down by other human beings who couldn't know themselves. Those books are not more likely to be true than any other story.
Of course one might argue that the books have been written by humans who received the word from god himself, but why would you trust in that?
Looking at human societies and how every growing empire tried to bind as much power as possible and will lie for their advantages, how can one possibly trust that those messages from god have been passed down over countless generations without ever being manipulated by those who could find advantage in doing so, like every king ever who claimed he's the rightful king under the name of god?
I can't see no possible reason of why a god should exist.
Of course i can't know that for sure, but then again it seems just very unlikely, so why should i belief in something just because i can't disprove it?



some random action in other universe.



@the OP

... the best way to disprove another's theory, one which lies contrary to your own, is to prove yours conclusively, without question or ambiguity.
since that isn't a possibility for you, or anyone who believes as you do, your question of 'where did the big bang come from?' is purely combative and intentionally so, as you have nothing to substantiate your own, differing opinion.
the largest and most unavoidable distinction between those two schools of thought; the big bang and evolution vs creationism, is that only one of them has consistently moved forward with any type of explanation as to why we are here, while the other has relied on the same proof and support for millennia, that of simple belief.

you can believe in anything you like, but the reality of that belief, it's truth, has to reside in something more than just the belief itself, otherwise it's just an idea; and that is perfectly realized in the 'idea' of a god.

no one has the answers right now, on either side of the argument, but I am more comfortable with the explanations of an evolving science that strives to understand rather than accepting an explanation that has been conveniently subscribed for me, one that doesn't ask me to prove anything.. just accept and believe.

you're fully aware that, at present, no one can explain where the big bang came from, and you should honestly be ashamed of the childish nature and underlying insecurity of your own beliefs that force you to ask the question in the first place.
in other words, you should question why you asked.. and while you're at it, you should question some other things too.



Still move beliveable then some random dude in the sky.. not to mention that we are all decendants from incest..



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And shepherds we shall be,

For Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee And teeming with souls shall it ever be. In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti. -----The Boondock Saints