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Forums - Politics - Where did the Big Bang Come from?

Cleary397 said:
MTZehvor said:
VanceIX said:
Mystro-Sama said:

Most Atheists i've spoken to dropped the smartass attitude after that question. Not to mention that they can't seem to answer the question of how an existence without consciousness can create an existence with consciousness.

But in that case, who created the conciousness that created the conciouss existence? 

There wouldn't need to be anyone; if a being exists outside of the universe, it is not bound by the laws that exist within this universe, such as time (and, by extension, the need to have a beginning). 

If a being exists outside the universe?!?!?!?!

You cannot make that assertion without any evidence or reasoning behind it. 

Multiverse is possibly a thing, you know. As for the laws in the other universes, I don't know what they permit in regard to our universe.



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KylieDog said:
o_O.Q said:
KylieDog said:
Mystro-Sama said:

Most Atheists i've spoken to dropped the smartass attitude after that question. Not to mention that they can't seem to answer the question of how an existence without consciousness can create an existence with consciousness.

What made God?

And what made what made God?

And what made that?

I assume most Atheists shut up because it is a stupid set of questions and the answer would be lost on the people asking.


what caused the universe was an entity that exists without an initial cause or what some people call god


And before that?

There wouldn't need to be anything before that. Time is a law of our universe, therefore, anything existing outside of our universe (such as God, or whatever else might be out there) would not need to have a beginning or end.



Norris2k said:

You think you talk about God, but you make quite a confusion between very different concepts, such as God, Monotheist God, religion, religious authority, and superstition.

First,
- God is a concept of something/someone beyond humanity. You are absolutely not talking about that.
- The monotheist God is the idea of an omnipotent, omniscient God that exists before anything. You are not really talking about that.

An then, there is:
- The religion, which is a common belief and concept for a perticular God. It includes the Bible and its strange or illogical stories. There is no way denying the logic of the Bible would lead to deny God or the monotheist God.
- The religious authority, which is a human organization that as such tends to be in search for growth, control, power, but also... makes mistake. That included making the priest, Church and Bible the single source of reference. Which lead to make the science a competitor as a reference, but also a risk for the power balance so far in favor of the religion. Which lead at some point of time to the flat earth belief protection, which is not a constant in Christian religion (see wikipedia), not even a statement of its Bible, and not a word of God (if any).
- The Bible which the religious authory and religion is partly based on. Man-made, translated multiple times, different possible interpretations, part symbolic, part truth, it would very wrong to make the validity or morality of it a decision point about God.
- And last but not least, superstition. The idea that a cross will prevent a disease. And it's plain stupidity, for quite a lot of them it was spread by religious authorities, but it's not related to the existence or not of God, a monotheist God, the pertinence of the Bible, etc.

So, educated people believe less in God, but their education has an impact on what is the less directly related to God. Myself I think I can say I'm educated, and I'm atheist, but the explanation of why would be a lot more complex than "religion is full of crap".

God made humans in his image, and closer to God than anything else so i absolutely am talking about God. I have read nearly all of the bible during my 13 years of schooling. I am talking about the biblical God as he is presented in the bible, you cant change the meaning of God or the way he is presented in the bible based on your own beliefs. I am talking about the biblical God, just because you label and interpret it a different way doesnt mean others do. I know many dozens of preists and nuns that have taught me through out my entire life that will tell you that you are straight up wrong as well as the arch bishop of adelaide that i spoke to recently on this at my last school vist on a religion course which was mandatory at a catholic school.

You have a different view point on this matter and what constitutes 'God' but others of faith will tell you that you are wrong, figureheads that study this for their entire life will as well as various 'holymen'. Excuse me for taking a more extreme and radical view point that is held by many, not inculing yourself, but you cant telll me that i am not talking about God just because you don't have the same view point of God that is taught by (and to) millions upon millions of people. 

Also i dont think you get to site which parts of the bible are symbolic or true, the pope and popes of the past as well as many denominations will tell you it is all true and that you should take its word as fact, Jesus tells us it is the word of God. And the translations mostly agree with the original writings. Picking and chosing from the bible is pretty pathetic, you don't believe it is the word of God? God is supposed to be all powerful surely he/she/it can handle the simple writing of a book and make it perfect. Surely he can convey his silly little message to the people without it getting confused in translation, is he not God? 

If you start picking apart the bible and saying it is symbolic here and there, then that just takes away from its validity and I will just dismiss the whole thing. Also superstition comes from somewhere, and alot comes from the bible, all evil is taught to be the work of Satan. If you have read the bible alot of things are taught as the work of Satan, needing the hand of God to heal you. Things like satan and demons affect your mind and make you mad and other things like satan causes all evil, including murders etc. 



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Norris2k said:

You think you talk about God, but you make quite a confusion between very different concepts, such as God, Monotheist God, religion, religious authority, and superstition.

First,
- God is a concept of something/someone beyond humanity. You are absolutely not talking about that.
- The monotheist God is the idea of an omnipotent, omniscient God that exists before anything. You are not really talking about that.

An then, there is:
- The religion, which is a common belief and concept for a perticular God. It includes the Bible and its strange or illogical stories. There is no way denying the logic of the Bible would lead to deny God or the monotheist God.
- The religious authority, which is a human organization that as such tends to be in search for growth, control, power, but also... makes mistake. That included making the priest, Church and Bible the single source of reference. Which lead to make the science a competitor as a reference, but also a risk for the power balance so far in favor of the religion. Which lead at some point of time to the flat earth belief protection, which is not a constant in Christian religion (see wikipedia), not even a statement of its Bible, and not a word of God (if any).
- The Bible which the religious authory and religion is partly based on. Man-made, translated multiple times, different possible interpretations, part symbolic, part truth, it would very wrong to make the validity or morality of it a decision point about God.
- And last but not least, superstition. The idea that a cross will prevent a disease. And it's plain stupidity, for quite a lot of them it was spread by religious authorities, but it's not related to the existence or not of God, a monotheist God, the pertinence of the Bible, etc.

So, educated people believe less in God, but their education has an impact on what is the less directly related to God. Myself I think I can say I'm educated, and I'm atheist, but the explanation of why would be a lot more complex than "religion is full of crap".

Took the words out of my mouth. I would like to add that the Bible was actually poorly written and written by multiple people. There so many contradictions within that book that it's not even funny.

The concept of a god began way before Christianity even began. Because humans weren't as technologically advanced and observant as we are now, they couldn't really explain certain phenomena that were happening in the world such as rain. As a result, they concocted a bunch of ideas as to how these phenomena happen which included the idea of a god. Christianity even didn't exist until about 4000 years after the first human civilization, the Sumerians.

So overall, religion and the concept of a god or gods are all manmade. There could be a god outside the universe, but we don't know at all. Rather, is it even worth knowing? Each religion's idea of the omnipotent deity such as the Christian god, Yahweh, Allah, Zeus, Odin, Vishnu, whatever are totally wrong from the "actual god". A lot of people have done really heinous things to other people and get away with it. Where was God to punish these people? Exactly, these concepts of god are false because our observations directly disprove them. The "actual god" could just be some blob for all we know, but what good is there to knowing about that when that knowledge is inapplicable?



A little more than 6 thousand years ago God Almighty made everything. All other theories are lies and deception. A million ways to lie, only one way to tell the truth. Also, carbon dating is bogus and fossiles take not millions of years to form, they can form in years.

Fossiles of dinossaurs formed during the Big Flood. Some dinos (babyes) where in the ark, but they died after cause the post-flood Earth could not sustain them in some way or another. Carnivorous dinos were probably abominations created by the fallen angels and the nephilin (the giant abominations born of union of fallen angels and women).

Genesis tell that all flesh were corrupted in Earth, which can mean abominations and monsters everywhere (the mega fauna also, but it was probably because of how awesome Earth was, in resource, oxigen and stuff), meaning carnivorous beasts and hybrid monsters. The flood probably killed all these abominations.

I actually think evil used dinos to spread lies and deception overtime, you can see dinos used to justify blasphemies and heresies against the Almighty everywhere.

The lie of a billions of years old Earth is a strong way to make people think that life is meaningless, while this is really a one chance deal with big consequences in the long run. The strenght of evil is that you do not have to believe in it for it to win. If you just don´t care you´re doing the devil´s will.

Reason for the lies: Fallen angels and demons hate mankind, they will do everything they can to make us turn away from God. We can believe whatever, as long as we turn away from the Father.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

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It's a simple answer if you ask me; Either God made it, or it didn't happen.

It isn't logical for someone to say that something can explode out of literally nothing. That's the same thing as saying 0 + 0 = 1.



Soriku said:
Nintentacle said:
It's a simple answer if you ask me; Either God made it, or it didn't happen.

It isn't logical for someone to say that something can explode out of literally nothing. That's the same thing as saying 0 + 0 = 1.

But it's perfectly fine for a god to come out of literally nothing. Because reasons.

It's a little different though.

I believe that God is an eternal being, with no exact origin. He doesn't come out of nothing, because he has no origin, and has always existed.

(Most) Atheist believe that the Universe, and by default time, have an origin, and this origin is an explosion, where absoultetly nothing caused it.

Now, I'll tell you the one and only (Important) difference in the case that you missed it; Christians believe God doesn't have a start, and most atheist believe that the Universe has a start. So, what I'm trying to say is that you can't make the same comparison because it isn't the exact same thing, where God replaces the Big Bang.

 

But, if you didn't understand that, I'll try to say it in a different way: You questioning how God can exist doesn't justify the Universe coming to be out of absolutely nothing (Or, something that doesn't exist creating itself). You can't say the same thing I said about the Universe (That something that doesn't exist can't create itself) because I don't believe that God was created. He just always existed.



Soriku said:
Nintentacle said:

It's a little different though.

I believe that God is an eternal being, with no exact origin. He doesn't come out of nothing, because he has no origin, and has always existed.

(Most) Atheist believe that the Universe, and by default time, have an origin, and this origin is an explosion, where absoultetly nothing caused it.

Now, I'll tell you the one and only (Important) difference in the case that you missed it; Christians believe God doesn't have a start, and most atheist believe that the Universe has a start. So, what I'm trying to say is that you can't make the same comparison because it isn't the exact same thing, where God replaces the Big Bang.

 

But, if you didn't understand that, I'll try to say it in a different way: You questioning how God can exist doesn't justify the Universe coming to be out of absolutely nothing (Or, something that doesn't exist creating itself). You can't say the same thing I said about the Universe (That something that doesn't exist can't create itself) because I don't believe that God was created. He just always existed.


The universe as we know it had a start. If there is a 'before' a Big Bang, then it has the same properties as the idea of god that you posited.

Your idea of god is very vague. But then you added the Christian label. What gives the Christian god more validity than any other gods that can be said to have "always existed"? Faith is not a good answer by the way.

Besides, you can't say for sure that your god didn't have an origin.

I meant to add "And some other Gods" instead of just the Christian/Jewish one, but I forgot. Either way, you can say he doesn't have an origin. I'd be similar to time, like I've said before.



Soriku said:
Nintentacle said:
It's a simple answer if you ask me; Either God made it, or it didn't happen.

It isn't logical for someone to say that something can explode out of literally nothing. That's the same thing as saying 0 + 0 = 1.


But it's perfectly fine for a god to come out of literally nothing. Because reasons.


What is the diference man? it is all faith, we have faith in God, and you in science.

We believe that in the beginning God created.

You believe that in the beginning the big explosion happened.

You believe because of fossiles and carbon dating.

We believe because of miracles and the visitation of the holy spirit when we pray.

The only diference is that we admit we live by faith, you do not.

But in the end, you hold on to your faith in God not existing as hard as we hol in our faith in God.

It is not about evidence, it is faith. If I write a thousand of miracles and signs that God made in my life, you would not change your mind.

If you show me a thousand of fossiles, rocks and missing links, you would not change mine.

By the way, God created time and everything. If you do not understand, good, that shows how awesome he is and how little and weak we are. It is a proof of His glory, and not of His non-existence.

And, also, the only reason you don´t have proof of His existence is because you have been running away from him all your life. If you wanted, He would show Himself in ways that you would not be able to deny.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

Think of a video game or a simulation, before it was coded there was nothing and after some hard work, this thing finally starts up...black screen, but there s already some physic at work and in the first almost infinite fraction of seconds, everything in this universe is created (a few cpu/gpu cycles). This is the dark age.

After some fine tuning, this procedural universe begins to form galaxies, and through multiple generations of stars, heavier elements...eventually life appears. That should be entertaining for its creator.

The universe is just a glorified no man's sky simulation. Hence why a lot of scientists believe it's holographic and encoded in 2D like a gpu would rasterize a 3D world in pixels.

We already do the same thing.. how would look like the procedural worlds we create in like, a hundred years ? a lot like new universes, with so complicated IA in it, the individuals will ask themselves the same questions than we presently asking.

But but.. what made the creator of this stuff ? Shut up and make your own universe.