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Forums - Nintendo - So Mario Kart 8 Isn't Going To Give The Wii U Even 1 Month At 100k+ In The US?

Soundwave said:

Nintendo's launch trajectory for the Wii U was pretty blatantly obvious

Nintendo Land = Wii Sports (the game that shows off the usage of the controller through various family friendly mini-games)

NSMB = Zelda: TP (the big Nintendo sequel to one of their core Nintendo IP, in this case 2D Mario has generally always been a bigger seller than Zelda)

Zombi U = Red Steel (the Western third party launch shooter to show that you can play teh hardcore games on Ninty too).


Yes, and...?



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KLXVER said:
Soundwave said:

Nintendo's launch trajectory for the Wii U was pretty blatantly obvious

Nintendo Land = Wii Sports (the game that shows off the usage of the controller through various family friendly mini-games)

NSMB = Zelda: TP (the big Nintendo sequel to one of their core Nintendo IP, in this case 2D Mario has generally always been a bigger seller than Zelda)

Zombi U = Red Steel (the Western third party launch shooter to show that you can play teh hardcore games on Ninty too).


Yes, and...?

Obviously they were trying to replicate the Wii launch to some degree, obviously it didn't take the second time around (sort of predictably). 

That said, I don't neccessarily think it's fair to sh*t on Nintendo Land or something ... it's a pretty good game, even quite a bit fun for casuals ... it's just in today's day and age it's nothing special. And the whole mini-game concept for a console is played out, it got co-opted but iOS/Android basically taking the "mini-game" concept and turning it into a freebie industry of 10000 different games where 1 of them occassionally becomes a new social fad. 

I think sometimes console "warriors" get the wrong idea that some how effort should equal success. But really that's not how the game business (or even life) always work. Just because you try hard or you even deliver good games is no gaurutee of success. This is not as much of a merit based business as people would like to think it is. It's just easier to think of it that way (ie: the system with the best games wins!) because it's a comfortable safety blanket of an idea. 



Soundwave said:
KLXVER said:
Soundwave said:

Nintendo's launch trajectory for the Wii U was pretty blatantly obvious

Nintendo Land = Wii Sports (the game that shows off the usage of the controller through various family friendly mini-games)

NSMB = Zelda: TP (the big Nintendo sequel to one of their core Nintendo IP, in this case 2D Mario has generally always been a bigger seller than Zelda)

Zombi U = Red Steel (the Western third party launch shooter to show that you can play teh hardcore games on Ninty too).


Yes, and...?

Obviously they were trying to replicate the Wii launch to some degree, obviously it didn't take the second time around (sort of predictably). 

That said, I don't neccessarily think it's fair to sh*t on Nintendo Land or something ... it's a pretty good game, even quite a bit fun for casuals ... it's just in today's day and age it's nothing special. And the whole mini-game concept for a console is played out, it got co-opted but iOS/Android basically taking the "mini-game" concept and turning it into a freebie industry.


Well Nintendo Land was a good introduction to the Gamepad(never tried it, but you can see it uses the different features of the gamepad)

NSMBU was probably easy to make and the previous one sold 25 million copies

ZombiU was Ubisofts attempt at cashing in on the launch of a new console(just like they did with Red Steel)

 

Pretty good strategy from both companies if you ask me...



RolStoppable said:
KLXVER said:
RolStoppable said:

So sincerely disagreeing? Okay.

A new Nintendo console's fate rests on the shoulders of an Ubisoft game, a collaboration with Warner Bros. and a first party funded Platinum Games title. After all the aformentioned games failed to do anything of note (what a shock!), Nintendo rolls out a title that will heavily rely on usergenerated content; let's add that one to the list of failures that include Mario Paint, the Mario Artist series (64DD, Japan-only), Wii Music and WarioWare: Do It Yourself.

It's really no surprise that the Wii U is tanking.

The Gamepad has several features. Why does every game have to use every single feature for it to be relevant? Most games use 1 or more unique features of the Gamepad to enhance the gaming experience. Just like every other controller.

What? Your response has hardly anything to do with what we were talking about.


Guess I read it wrong then...



RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

I'd go even further and say trying to replicate or continue the Wii especially in 2012 in any way was a mistake. 

Nintendo was never going to repeat the success of the first Wii, the thing is in a lot of ways what Nintendo never really understood is that a lot of people don't want anything more complex than Wii Sports. 

And that iPhone/Android serves their needs far better. Nintendo had a nice window of oppurtunity from 2006-2009 but that was about it. These people don't want to play a Zelda game, I have a cousin who is pretty much a textbook definition of a casual player, and she asked me to list her some good games to buy for her new Wii and I suggested Mario Galaxy as the best game on the system. 

I remember the look on her face like a week later, lol, she was so frustrated with the game and couldn't even make it past like the first couple of levels and was upset that I had suggested it. I think we wrongly assume that the Wii broke down all barriers ... not really. Wii Sports did, but the thing is many Wii gamers wouldn't be able to play a game like Skyward Sword or Metroid Prime or even Mario Galaxy, it doesn't matter what controller you give them either (short of maybe brain control).

They want games with extremely stripped down play mechanics (ie: in tennis you don't even need to worry about moving your player). Nintendo's hope that they could get this crowd to graduate to different games was ill-founded. It was like assuming the person who likes Transformers movies may eventually become a fan of art house films for example ... and maybe that might even happen once in a blue moon, but the odds are that audience simply likes what they like and want nothing different. 

And in that scenario, Nintendo was always doomed against Apple, because they can't beat Apple for simple/easy to play games on volume, price, or hardware sexiness. 

The bolded cracks me up.

You need to look at games from another angle. These "casual" gamers don't want to put up with bullshit. I wrote a thread about Super Mario Galaxy's failure, but Google search doesn't retrieve it; anyway, the point is that SMG's start is really, really, really bad. The same goes for Skyward Sword, so I wouldn't blame anyone for putting the game down before motion controls come into play. Nevertheless, Nintendo got those people to graduate to other games. Mario Kart Wii and New Super Mario Bros. Wii sold really well; pretty much a mirror image of the DS success where MK and NSMB also greatly benefited from the influx of new gamers.

So Nintendo's problem isn't that said audience doesn't want anything other than Wii Sports, it's that Nintendo's developers don't want to make such games. And by that I don't just mean timely sequels, but also new IPs that are made in the same spirit. Where's the story in MK and NSMB? It doesn't exist. People's time isn't wasted with bullshit, so they like those games more than the titles you consider masterpieces.

MK and NSMB also have higher game purity than 3D Mario and modern Zelda; by that I mean that winning/losing (the very core concept of a game) is clearer defined and happens on a more frequent basis. The same obviously holds true for Wii Sports. Meanwhile, you can spend minutes walking around in 3D Mario and modern Zelda without anything of real interest happening; and that equates to boring.

My cousin who bought the Wii doesn't even like Mario Kart by the way. "Too hard". Even Wii Sports Resort was pushing it (she prefers the original Wii Sports by far). She likes the Wii in the same way Charades or Twister is fun ... it's fun to have your friends get up and look foolish infront of others. That's the "party" appeal of it. Shockingly she got tired of the Wii after about 2 years (I guess this is Nintendo's fault too). 

What's wrong with Nintendo not wanting to make games like Wii Sports (with stripped down mechanics) forever? That's not Nintendo, anymore than asking Wes Anderson or even Steven Spielberg to make nothing but Micheal Bay style movies because that's what a portion dumb general movie going public wants (robots and some tits and ass and explosions, minimal to no story, lots of special effects). 

Nintendo Land isn't any more complex than Mario Kart, so why isn't that successful? It's not like the Wii U doesn't have a crapton of mini-game style titles either. Casual gaming fads are not based on merit or quality ... is Flappy Bird really a better game than some of the Wii Fit U mini-games? Nope. What's so special about Candy Crush Saga? This is just the epitome of throwing a bunch of crap at a wall and having some of it stick. 

Nintendo was always going to lose this audience unless they completely sold out their prinicipals as who they are and gave into what that audience wants -- simple to play, stripped down, mini-games for $1 (or better yet free). And tons of them, with little to no regard for actual quality. "Quality" is actually bad because it can make the games unneccessarily complex/hard. That's what that audience wants now and Nintendo cannot oblige that without destroying what makes them Nintendo in the first place. 

I'd rather Nintendo fail being themselves than sell out trying to be something they aren't. If the mass public doesn't want to buy an entire console just for Nintendo franchises anymore, than so be it, Nintendo will find some other ways to make money, and at least Nintendo can say they went down being themselves, not some shadow or joke of a company pretending to desperately chase every fad. 



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Depends on what you mean by underperform though...

NSMBU has sold over 4 million. Thats about 65% of the install base.
MK8 has sold over 2 million in a month. Thats about 33% of the install base.

Dont see any PS4 or XB1 games hitting that percentage.



RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

And what's wrong with Nintendo not wanting to make games like Wii Sports (with stripped down mechanics) forever? That's not Nintendo, anymore than asking Wes Anderson or even Steven Spielberg to make nothing but Micheal Bay style movies because that's what a portion dumb general movie going public wants (robots and some tits and ass and explosions, minimal to no story, lots of special effects). 

Nintendo Land isn't any more complex than Mario Kart, so why isn't that successful? It's not like the Wii U doesn't have a crapton of mini-game style titles either. Casual gaming fads are not based on merit or quality ... is Flappy Bird really a better game than some of the Wii Fit U mini-games? Nope. What's so special about Candy Crush Saga? This is just the epitome of throwing a bunch of crap at a wall and having some of it stick. 

My cousin who bought the Wii doesn't even like Mario Kart by the way. "Too hard". 

Nintendo was always going to lose this audience unless they completely sold out their prinicipals as who they are and gave into what that audience wants -- simple to play, stripped down, mini-games for $1 (or better yet free). That's what that audience wants now and Nintendo cannot oblige that without destroying what makes them Nintendo in the first place. 

What's wrong with that is that there will always be a downmarket for video games (people aren't born as gamers, people don't have time for games that are timesinks), so there will always be demand for straightforward games. If Nintendo were to retreat to the upmarket entirely (like you seem to want), they would have to put higher profit margins on their systems and games; that wouldn't fly though, so it's not an option.

Nintendo Land is on the Wii U, that's already one big reason why it's not successful. When will you understand that every single Wii U game will underperform? Come on, this very thread right here is about you starting to realize this pattern. Pick any type of game or any IP, everything underperforms.

What is Nintendo, good question. They are not a company that became popular because of the Nintendo 64 games they made. Or simply put:

Super Mario Bros. is a greater achievement than Super Mario 64. The Legend of Zelda is a greater achievement than Ocarina of Time.

The former is what the audience wants to play, the latter is what Nintendo wants to make. There is a disconnect between the audience and the company. Who has more power? Money is power.


And if that downmarket is perfectly happy playing $1/free Flappy Crap? Then what? 

There's nothing wrong with them liking that, anymore than the kid that wants to just watch Transformers and nothing else ... but I think honestly if you can't even enjoy a 3D Mario game, like the most recent 3D Mario World, which is pretty damn streamlined design wise -- then maybe (gasp!) Nintendo isn't for you. 

Maybe you're better off with Flappy Bird. A lot of these people don't even want to play a game for more than 10 mintutes at a time maybe three times a week, good luck convincing them to buy any kind of seperate console now that they don't need to (since their phone or tablet does that just fine). 

At what point do you just admit you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole? Nintendo isn't about cheap disposable gaming. That's what that audience wants. 

Nintendo can't win with that audience unless they sell out and destroy the basic prinicpals that makes the company great in the first place. Nintendo games were never cheap, dumbed down disposable gaming ... they are generally easy to pick up and play, but very deep and often very challenging games with great design mechanics. But this also always required some level of skill, patience, and general love of gaming to really get into. Been that way since Donkey Kong in 1982, which is hard, unforgiving freaking game. Far moreso than the likes of Pac-Man. 

If someone can't appreciate that, then Nintendo simply isn't the company for them. And by the way -- Super Mario Bros, Super Mario 64, Zelda: OoT, are all *great* video games and tremendous achievements that will forever live on and be remembered decades from now, whereas Candy Crush won't. Nintendo has nothing to be ashamed about if they're being themselves. F*ck an audience that only likes you if you basically have to rip apart everything about the company that makes you tick in the first place, it's like a girlfriend that "loves you" but wants you to change everything about you, that's not love. 



Donkey Kong was 81. Just saying:)



RolStoppable said:
KLXVER said:
Depends on what you mean by underperform though...

NSMBU has sold over 4 million. Thats about 65% of the install base.
MK8 has sold over 2 million in a month. Thats about 33% of the install base.

Dont see any PS4 or XB1 games hitting that percentage.

If a sequel, selling significantly worse than its predecessor.
If a new IP, selling at levels that are nothing to write home about.

Additionally, when it comes to first party software, it's also supposed to move hardware. In both fiscal years of Wii U availability, Nintendo failed to meet their forecasts by big margins. This year their projections are very low (3.6m), but even that is going to be a challenge despite Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros. for Wii U.

 

Mario Kart 8 has been out for a little over a month on a console that has sold about 6.5 million units. Are you really comparing that to MKWii thats been out for 6 years on a console with 100 million units sold?

 

Also MKWii is still selling. Nintendo wont have 10 million sales of a game in the first week. They have long legs though.



RolStoppable said:

Nobody in their right mind would buy a console to watch Youtube videos, regardless of the iPad's existence. The Wii U is a dud because there were never any games to back up the Gamepad; and there never will be, because the idea itself is so dumb.

As for bundling Wiimotes with the Wii U, that doesn't change the console's image: Wii U is the console with the Gamepad. Remove the Gamepad and things become even worse, because then the question is why the console was made in the first place.


Nope, it doesn't in the slightest, but if it can get the price of the actual system down to one which people who might be interested in playing successors to games they enjoyed on the Wii would play, it could well be their best shot.

It'd also bring the price down to the point where people can get by the fact that it's not going to have FIFA, GTA etc on it and buy it as a secondary console to play the exclusives.



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