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Forums - Sales - Why Nintendo shouldn't suck up to third parties

OttoniBastos on 30 June 2014
Shadow1980 said:
#1: They're not biased against Nintendo, per se. Nintendo just doesn't make hardware that third parties like to develop for. Nintendo had inferior third-party support compared to the PS1 and PS2 because of their choice of format (first cartridges and then mini-DVDs), then they had inferior third-party support last generation and this generation because the hardware just isn't powerful enough and is centered around a gimmick. Because nearly all gamers have moved to non-Nintendo platforms to get their third-party fix, third parties also see Nintendo platforms as hardware designed to appeal mainly to Nintendo fans. There's no financial incentive for most to bother with a system that's only as powerful as systems that they're going to abandon in less than a year. If Nintendo made a conventional, sufficiently powerful system, third parties would start giving Nintendo their full support again.

#2. People buy Nintendo systems to play Nintendo games because of the lackluster third-party support. There's not much market for a system like the Wii U outside of fans of Nintendo games. History shows that lack of third-party support can severely limit sales. The Wii is the exception to the rule: it got lucky due to a combination of affordable price, brilliant marketing, and a gimmick that resonated well with non-gamers.

#3. The Xbox is tanking because A) PR debacles from last spring, B) a launch price of $500, which was the result of bundling an accessory that most didn't care for, and C) it's not a Sony console, which automatically puts it at a huge disadvantage in Europe.


Fixed*

Wii sold mainly for the smartphone shovelware crowd.People who hardly played videogames before and didn't have smartphone/tablet at that time(2006) to play with.That's why the "gimmick" resonated so well with the demographic.For gamers(with the exception,of course,of the hardcore nintendo fan) Wii was a secondary console that they would buy only after pick a PS3/360/PC. 



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Aielyn on 30 June 2014
OttoniBastos said:
¹So you found one game that is not cartoony and now you ignore all the other games(a lot of btw) that prove you wrong? Like other CODs for example!

²You're using US numbers only. Plus,Playstation 3 was never the strongest one with shooters(specially in USA).Plus²,even Iwata said that nintendo gamers don't want/buy third party games like COD: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/110426qa/04.html

"However, Wii is good in some areas but not in others, so especially for games like "Call of Duty," the Wii version sold pretty well, but the unit sales were very different from the versions of other platforms, and I assume that one of the reasons is the issue with the graphical representations which you mentioned before, and also, the consumers who like that kind of game will have other platforms at home as well, which led to this result."

Even Iwata agrees that nintendo consoles sell nintendo games(and nintendo's similars).

Where is your god now?

¹ You did notice that I listed more than just CoD, right?

² I'm using US numbers because they're the only ones that we can be consistent on. PS3 released about 4 months later in Europe, CoD isn't popular in Japan, and Xbox isn't nearly as popular in Europe as it is in America. So I figured that choosing the region that should, in theory, be worst for Wii with regards to this comparison would be reasonable.

Meanwhile, you quote Iwata talking about multiplatform games, and assert that this proves something about third party games. And he's talking specifically about the Wii, yet you assert he's talking about Nintendo consoles in general. But even if Iwata himself had said it, that doesn't make it true - it may surprise you to learn that nobody is infallible, and I don't hold anybody up to such high standards that I think they can do no wrong.

In short, not a single one of your counterarguments is holding up to scrutiny.



OttoniBastos on 30 June 2014
Aielyn said:
OttoniBastos said:
¹So you found one game that is not cartoony and now you ignore all the other games(a lot of btw) that prove you wrong? Like other CODs for example!

²You're using US numbers only. Plus,Playstation 3 was never the strongest one with shooters(specially in USA).Plus²,even Iwata said that nintendo gamers don't want/buy third party games like COD: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/110426qa/04.html

"However, Wii is good in some areas but not in others, so especially for games like "Call of Duty," the Wii version sold pretty well, but the unit sales were very different from the versions of other platforms, and I assume that one of the reasons is the issue with the graphical representations which you mentioned before, and also, the consumers who like that kind of game will have other platforms at home as well, which led to this result."

Even Iwata agrees that nintendo consoles sell nintendo games(and nintendo's similars).

Where is your god now?

¹ You did notice that I listed more than just CoD, right?

² I'm using US numbers because they're the only ones that we can be consistent on. PS3 released about 4 months later in Europe, CoD isn't popular in Japan, and Xbox isn't nearly as popular in Europe as it is in America. So I figured that choosing the region that should, in theory, be worst for Wii with regards to this comparison would be reasonable.

Meanwhile, you quote Iwata talking about multiplatform games, and assert that this proves something about third party games. And he's talking specifically about the Wii, yet you assert he's talking about Nintendo consoles in general. But even if Iwata himself had said it, that doesn't make it true - it may surprise you to learn that nobody is infallible, and I don't hold anybody up to such high standards that I think they can do no wrong.

In short, not a single one of your counterarguments is holding up to scrutiny.


Yeah because WiiU is soo different from Wii right?

Both are underpowered machines focused on "gimmicks" for casual audience.The only difference is that Wii succeed on hit that target.

Thus,the Iwata's quote applys for WiiU too.(it's even worse actually)

Call of duty ghost sold what on WiiU? even the recently launched PS4 and Xbox one moved more of that software. 

Besides, i don't need to prove anything to you or even try to counterargument because if N64,Gamecube and Wii third party sales/support can't prove this to you,then nobody(including me) can.



Galaki on 30 June 2014

I completely agree with #2.
I haven't played any first party on other consoles so I they are subpar.



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SubiyaCryolite on 30 June 2014

"Nintendo makes the best games", I hear that line all the time around here (no where else I might add). Here's the highest rated games of all time, http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all. I see a lot of games that aren't made by Nintendo up there. Where does this statement come from? Does it carry any real weight, I don't think it does. Gamers have options and currently most consumers aren't choosing the WiiU so really Nintendos games aren't the gold standard as some would like to believe.
I don't understand why some Nintendo fans have this "Nintendo quality" boner as if other games break down every 5 seconds or are trash or something. People pick on titles like Battlefield 4 and UFC for proof of 3rd party "incompetence" while every other non buggy game gets ignored by the quality police. Maybe some people just have higher "standards", or perhaps they're just being pretentious. Who knows.



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

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SubiyaCryolite on 30 June 2014

Part of me wants Nintendo to totally abandon 3rd parties so that their next system can fail even harder so that I can see what conspiracy theory some fans will come up with next. Unless the hardware sells itself (like the Wii) this approach is suicide.



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

Euphoria14 on 30 June 2014
Mr Khan said:
forest-spirit said:
Euphoria14 said:

It is obvious to anyone with common sense that Nintendo IS NOT the best developer in the world. Their online is subpar (They even choose AGAINST in game chat for a team-based competitive shooter!!) and I doubt they could even create a game on the same level as Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Minecraft or even Destiny.

Until they prove that they can then there is no way to begin claiming them to be the best. The notion is just silly.


Common sense? According to whom is it common sense and what is it based on? Also, using that common sense, who is the best developer in the world. Their online has been subpar yes, but online is but one element and is not featured in every single game so it would be silly to use that as some kind of deciding factor. Discrediting developers for subpar gameplay, uninspired level design, boring art style, poor visuals or releasing products with significant bugs would be just as valid.

It seems like you're using your own opninion and preferences to define this level that Nintendo needs to surpass. For many Nintendo has already made games that surpass those (or those games never beat Nintendo's offerings to begin with). Now, it's perfectly fine for you to believe that Nintendo is incapable of reaching that "level" but that doesn't mean that everyone has to share that belief. And thus there's nothing silly about regarding Nintendo as the greatest, unless people claim it to be fact or "common sense".

Good response.

You would see, if you continued to read, that this is my point. No dev is universally "the best". For everything you might think they do best someone else will cite something they cannot do that another dev does and does well.



iPhone = Great gaming device. Don't agree? Who cares, because you're wrong.

Currently playing:

Final Fantasy VI (iOS), Final Fantasy: Record Keeper (iOS) & Dragon Quest V (iOS)     

    

Got a retro room? Post it here!

Euphoria14 on 30 June 2014
mii-gamer said:
Euphoria14 said:
mii-gamer said:


Easy! Highest rated games of all time, highest software sales of all time, most consistent, most diverse, a name and franchises synonymous with modern gaming. Where is your argument? Skyrim? An opinion, based on your personal thoughts? ok then! The data is on my side, how unfortunate for you

Good for you.

People not buying a WiiU proves me right.

Poor argument!

Hardware sales is a terrible measure of a game developers pedigree. I sincerely hope you are not serious with that point.

Anyway I'll see you tmrrwz

Good morning.

Leaving for work so I will make this short.

 

My only point last night was to say Nintendo is not the be all end all of developers and if they cannot do it all then what makes them the best? Skyrim was only used as an example since it is a title Nintendo cannot create, especially doing so without any bugs. They are the best in specific categories of games, just like many others, which would make them "one of the best".

I do not believe there to be a "best of the best".

 

 

 

I also apologize if some of my posts seem a bit "off". I am personally shocked at how much I posted last night. It all came after family was over for a weekend BBQ and I was really drunk.

I am proud of my typing.



iPhone = Great gaming device. Don't agree? Who cares, because you're wrong.

Currently playing:

Final Fantasy VI (iOS), Final Fantasy: Record Keeper (iOS) & Dragon Quest V (iOS)     

    

Got a retro room? Post it here!

hentai_11 on 30 June 2014
SubiyaCryolite said:
"Nintendo makes the best games", I hear that line all the time around here (no where else I might add). Here's the highest rated games of all time, http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all. I see a lot of games that aren't made by Nintendo up there. Where does this statement come from? Does it carry any real weight, I don't think it does. Gamers have options and currently most consumers aren't choosing the WiiU so really Nintendos games aren't the gold standard as some would like to believe.
I don't understand why some Nintendo fans have this "Nintendo quality" boner as if other games break down every 5 seconds or are trash or something. People pick on titles like Battlefield 4 and UFC for proof of 3rd party "incompetence" while every other non buggy game gets ignored by the quality police. Maybe some people just have higher "standards", or perhaps they're just being pretentious. Who knows.


Your metacritic link sadly doesn't show the publisher or developer. Would be intresting to count which name appears the most. But I have another link for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacritic

Especially interesting are the two tables which show the top ten of all times (stand january 2014) including the publisher and the best game per year. The name Nintendo appears more often than any other publisher. And thats one of the reason, why I think that Nintendo makes the best games.



Play4Fun on 30 June 2014
Euphoria14 said:

Good response.

You would see, if you continued to read, that this is my point. No dev is universally "the best". For everything you might think they do best someone else will cite something they cannot do that another dev does and does well.


'Best' -    " of the most excellent or desirable type or quality."   "most skillful, talented, or successful"  "better than all others in quality or value"  

Using certain objective standards, it can be argued that Nintendo is one of the best, if not the best developers around. Subjectively, it will widely vary on preference of course.

People have been calling all kinds of devs the best since gaming forums have been a thing, now suddenly here you come with some made up criteria, telling people they can't call anyone the best. All devs make games. Whichever one they think make the best games is who people will call the best.