By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo needs more western studios and more original western IPs to appeal to the west.

spemanig said:
Drakrami said:
spemanig said:

That's one of Nintendo's biggest issues. They don't have any western IPs that appeal to the sort of person who will buy a PS4 or XBO aka westerners. Home consoles are now western consoles. The Japanese don't care about them anymore. I'm not saying Nintendo should slow down the Japanese games they're making, but they need to start appealing to audiences they don't have. Western audiences.

Nintendo has only two western dev studios. Both are american and only one is relevant. NST and Retro Studios. That's it. Not one european studio. That can't happen. Nintendo needs to realise that they can't thrive on their current IPs alone. They need to appeal to the west.

Just look at Sony:

Naughty Dog- Uncharted, Jak, Crash, TLOU
Santa Monica- God of War, PS All-Stars
Bend- Vita games
Sucker Punch- Infamous, Sly Cooper
Guerilla Games- Killzone
Media Molecule- LittleBigPlanet, Tear Away

Imagine if Nintendo had this many western first party studios working on this many western appealing games, all with the Nintendo flare many gamers love. Nintendo needs to capitalize on this market their missing. Just think about it:

Retro Studios - Raven Blade (Old abandoned GC WRPG)
Big Red Button - Some original action game because that's their specialty apparently
New Studio - New IP
New Studio - New IP

New Studio - New IP

New Studio - New IP

It would be just what they need on top of their current killer apps. They need games like God of War, Uncharted, and Infamous to appeal to the audience they lack. X, a JRPG, and Bayonetta, a niche japanese action game, aren't enough. They need games with wide appeal in the west.

------

Big Red Button
Edge of Reality
Turtle Rock Studios
Slightly Mad Studios
Crytek UK
Retro Studios


If Nintendo bought all these studios, for example, and had them each work freely on a completely new, western style game of their choice, that would give Nintendo plenty of games that catered to an audience that they severely need if they want to succeed anymore.

And that's not enough. They need to start way more Wonderful 101-like 2nd party collaborations, but with western studios to create new exclusive western Nintendo IPs on top of their own new western studio IPs and on top of their current onslaught of classic IPs. Nintendo needs to become truly self sustaining. They need to get to a point where they genuinely don't need 3rd parties anymore because they pump out so many games on a regular and consistent basis that cater to absolutely every type of gamer.


Are you new to Nintendo? Their company philosophyhas always been to make a lot of money (max profits). It means that they spend very little but try to drive big sales. Case in points, have you not realized Nintendo has always released underpowered consoles every gen?  When was the last time Nintendo took a risk and released a new franchise? (Sony released like how many new franchises last gen? Too many, i cant even count them all). AND when was the last time Nintendo spend millions to buy a 3rd party game developer?


I don't know how that changes anything. Nintendo still needs more western IPs and studios.

They know they need to change. They said they need to appeal more in the west. This is how.

They are late in this gen and may be not possible in future too due to mostly its going to be online based consoles due to future so they missed the oppurtunity for the last decade and trusted more on their mario and handheld.



GAMING is not about spending hours to pass/waste our time just for fun,

its a Feeling/Experience about a VIRTUAL WORLD we can never be in real, and realizing some of our dreams (also creating new ones).

So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.

PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.

Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.

Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.

Around the Network
padib said:
spemanig said:
padib said:

No, it's not. But this is:

The best of the category you suggest:

Pos Game Platform Year Genre Publisher North America Europe Japan Rest of World Global
1 Uncharted 2: Among Thieves PS3 2009 Action Sony Computer Entertainment 3.16 2.08 0.21 0.92 6.38

 

Versus the best of Nintendo:

Pos Game Platform Year Genre Publisher North America Europe Japan Rest of World Global
1 Wii Sports Wii 2006 Sports Nintendo 41.09 28.72 3.77 8.40 81.97
2 Mario Kart Wii Wii 2008 Racing Nintendo 15.13 12.41 3.73 3.20 34.48
3 Wii Sports Resort Wii 2009 Sports Nintendo 15.43 10.75 3.26 2.90 32.34
4 Wii Play Wii 2006 Misc Nintendo 13.90 9.14 2.93 2.84 28.80
5 New Super Mario Bros. Wii Wii 2009 Platform Nintendo 13.92 6.62 4.69 2.16 27.39
6 Wii Fit Wii 2007 Sports Nintendo 8.92 8.03 3.60 2.14 22.69
7 Wii Fit Plus Wii 2009 Sports Nintendo 8.92 8.27 2.53 1.75 21.48
8 Super Smash Bros. Brawl Wii 2008 Fighting Nintendo 6.24 2.37 2.58 0.95 12.14
9 Super Mario Galaxy Wii 2007 Platform Nintendo 5.92 3.23 1.20 0.72 11.07

 

It's no contest.


I'm not even going to get into why that list is full of hot air.

Kind of like your arguments I guess?

No, Nintendo software has sold much better than Sony software since the beginning of time. Your suggestions lack basis.

@Soundwave. Games like Mario Kart have always sold well, regardless of that bubble bursting. Nintendo sold games during the time of the Game boy, it's been almost 20 years since the first pokemon game.

Here are the 15 top-selling games of all time:

PosGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Wii Sports Wii 2006 Sports Nintendo 41.09 28.72 3.77 8.40 81.97
2 Super Mario Bros. NES 1985 Platform Nintendo 29.08 3.58 6.81 0.77 40.24
3 Mario Kart Wii Wii 2008 Racing Nintendo 15.13 12.41 3.73 3.20 34.48
4 Wii Sports Resort Wii 2009 Sports Nintendo 15.43 10.75 3.26 2.90 32.34
5 Pokémon Red / Green / Blue Version GB 1996 Role-Playing Nintendo 11.27 8.89 10.22 1.00 31.37
6 Tetris GB 1989 Puzzle Nintendo 23.20 2.26 4.22 0.58 30.26
7 New Super Mario Bros. DS 2006 Platform Nintendo 11.13 8.96 6.49 2.86 29.44
8 Wii Play Wii 2006 Misc Nintendo 13.90 9.14 2.93 2.84 28.80
9 Duck Hunt NES 1984 Shooter Nintendo 26.93 0.63 0.28 0.47 28.31
10 New Super Mario Bros. Wii Wii 2009 Platform Nintendo 13.92 6.62 4.69 2.16 27.39
11 Nintendogs DS 2005 Simulation Nintendo 9.04 10.88 1.93 2.74 24.59
12 Pokémon Gold / Silver Version GB 1999 Role-Playing Nintendo 9.00 6.18 7.20 0.71 23.10
13 Mario Kart DS DS 2005 Racing Nintendo 9.57 7.31 4.12 1.88 22.88
14 Wii Fit Wii 2007 Sports Nintendo 8.92 8.03 3.60 2.14 22.69
15 Wii Fit Plus Wii 2009 Sports Nintendo 8.92 8.27 2.53 1.75 21.48

Thank you boys, but your Kratos is in another Castle.


Those numbers mean absolutely nothing to the Wii U's current situation. How much have the Wii U successors to any of those games sold by comparison. Nothing. They've sold like shit by comparison, especially in the west, because those games were inflated by hardware far more desirable than software. That's not the case with Nintendo anymore and the Wii U's sales prove it while Killzone and InFAmous, two of Sony's notably weaker franchises, are outselling literally every big Nintendo game that isn't Mario, especially in the West. Titanfall, a new IP, is curbstomping Zelda. Forza sold better than Pikmin 3 and DKCTF combined. The only reason Wii Party U is relevant right now is because 2/3 of it's sales came from bundle... In Japan.

Your denial pains me.



Nintendo needs western third party. That is their problem. They dont need western first party. Look at what western first party did for Sony in Japan. As far as sales are concerned being alienated by western tastes has caused the Japanese primarily to only look to Nintendo for specific games.

Nintendo needs to open their mind to third party and get back to the business of being competitive instead of being as ignorant as they always were. If they cant work with them they will continue to have these issues.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
Nintendo needs western third party. That is their problem. They dont need western first party. Look at what western first party did for Sony in Japan. As far as sales are concerned being alienated by western tastes has caused the Japanese primarily to only look to Nintendo for specific games.

Nintendo needs to open their mind to third party and get back to the business of being competitive instead of being as ignorant as they always were. If they cant work with them they will continue to have these issues.


That's not true at all. The Japanese are moving away from consoles, not from Sony. Even then, Sony makes primerily western games now which is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying Nintend needs to add western IP.

And no, Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party. 3rd party games will never sell on a Nintendo console until they have exclusive IP that will lure in that same audience. It's the reason why literally every single western 3rd party game has positively flopped on the Wii U. There's no audience. Nintendo needs to force that audience on to their consoles by giving them amazing games of that style they want, that they literally can't and will never get anywhere else but on Nintendo. That's what Sony does with Uncharted, TLoU, God of War, Killzone, InFamous, Little Big Planet, Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper, Heavenly Sword, and Resistance. That's what Microsoft does with Halo, Gears of War, Fable, Forza, Crackdown, Viva Piniata, Quantum Break, and Perfect Dark along with exclusive deals with games like Bioshock, Sunset Overdrive, Titanfall, Call of Duty, and Mass Effect. Compared to that, Nintendo doesn't compete. In the west.

padib said:
spemanig said:

Those numbers mean absolutely nothing to the Wii U's current situation. How much have the Wii U successors to any of those games sold by comparison. Nothing. They've sold like shit by comparison, especially in the west, because those games were inflated by hardware far more desirable than software. That's not the case with Nintendo anymore and the Wii U's sales prove it while Killzone and InFAmous, two of Sony's notably weaker franchises, are outselling literally every big Nintendo game that isn't Mario, especially in the West. Titanfall, a new IP, is curbstomping Zelda. Forza sold better than Pikmin 3 and DKCTF combined. The only reason Wii Party U is relevant right now is because 2/3 of it's sales came from bundle... In Japan.

Your denial pains me.

My point is that the Nintendo software DNA exists since 1981 (Donkey Kong), and a few years of market drought will never change their strength of mass appeal.

Suggesting Uncharted-type games to substitute borders on insanity.

And my point stands that your point is flat. Nintendo doesn't have "a few years of market drought." They've had two whole decades of steady decline, only to be tempererily spiked by an intelligently orchestrated fad, and now the decline is back on schedule. I'm not critisizing their games. I love their games. I've owned almost every Nintendo console and I've play games from every system. I'm no stranger to their mass appeal, but mass appeal doesn't mean universal appeal and now that overstretched appeal is being outdone by more focused and direct western targeting appeal. They need to get with the program.



spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Nintendo needs western third party. That is their problem. They dont need western first party. Look at what western first party did for Sony in Japan. As far as sales are concerned being alienated by western tastes has caused the Japanese primarily to only look to Nintendo for specific games.

Nintendo needs to open their mind to third party and get back to the business of being competitive instead of being as ignorant as they always were. If they cant work with them they will continue to have these issues.


That's not true at all. The Japanese are moving away from consoles, not from Sony. Even then, Sony makes primerily western games now which is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying Nintend needs to add western IP.

And no, Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party. 3rd party games will never sell on a Nintendo console until they have exclusive IP that will lure in that same audience. It's the reason why literally every single western 3rd party game has positively flopped on the Wii U. There's no audience. Nintendo needs to force that audience on to their consoles by giving them amazing games of that style they want, that they literally can't and will never get anywhere else but on Nintendo. That's what Sony does with Uncharted, TLoU, God of War, Killzone, InFamous, Little Big Planet, Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper, Heavenly Sword, and Resistance. That's what Microsoft does with Halo, Gears of War, Fable, Forza, Crackdown, Viva Piniata, Quantum Break, and Perfect Dark along with exclusive deals with games like Bioshock, Sunset Overdrive, Titanfall, Call of Duty, and Mass Effect. Compared to that, Nintendo doesn't compete. In the west. 


The Japanese will still buy consoles if they appeal to them. The Wii U has yet to have anything and Sony keeps looking at the west for profit instead of realizing Japan is there. Microsoft...well..they have no shot. I was alluding to the fact earlier than japan is turning to Nintendo . When I say Nintendo I am primarily focusing on the DS. Why might you ask? The DS has not changed from classic Nintendo sensibilities and harkens back to the days when Nintendo had proper support from all parties.

All Nintendo needs is third party and they could have the west in their hands. Third party is much more important than you think and play a large role in why Microsoft and Sony have success in the first place. Nintendos first party sales on popular consoles put both brands to shame, so first party is NOT the problem. 

Nintendo couldn't get to 40 million with the N64...even with great second party from western developer Rare. GoldenEye, Killer Instinct, Conker, Banjo Kazooie and more did not change a thing. 

Sony still trouned them to death with what kids?

Try to figure out what caused Nintendos sales to drop from SNES levels to N64 levels. Look it up and get back to me.



Around the Network
S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Nintendo needs western third party. That is their problem. They dont need western first party. Look at what western first party did for Sony in Japan. As far as sales are concerned being alienated by western tastes has caused the Japanese primarily to only look to Nintendo for specific games.

Nintendo needs to open their mind to third party and get back to the business of being competitive instead of being as ignorant as they always were. If they cant work with them they will continue to have these issues.


That's not true at all. The Japanese are moving away from consoles, not from Sony. Even then, Sony makes primerily western games now which is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying Nintend needs to add western IP.

And no, Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party. 3rd party games will never sell on a Nintendo console until they have exclusive IP that will lure in that same audience. It's the reason why literally every single western 3rd party game has positively flopped on the Wii U. There's no audience. Nintendo needs to force that audience on to their consoles by giving them amazing games of that style they want, that they literally can't and will never get anywhere else but on Nintendo. That's what Sony does with Uncharted, TLoU, God of War, Killzone, InFamous, Little Big Planet, Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper, Heavenly Sword, and Resistance. That's what Microsoft does with Halo, Gears of War, Fable, Forza, Crackdown, Viva Piniata, Quantum Break, and Perfect Dark along with exclusive deals with games like Bioshock, Sunset Overdrive, Titanfall, Call of Duty, and Mass Effect. Compared to that, Nintendo doesn't compete. In the west. 


The Japanese will still buy consoles if they appeal to them. The Wii U has yet to have anything and Sony keeps looking at the west for profit instead of realizing Japan is there. Microsoft...well..they have no shot. I was alluding to the fact earlier than japan is turning to Nintendo . When I say Nintendo I am primarily focusing on the DS. Why might you ask? The DS has not changed from classic Nintendo sensibilities and harkens back to the days when Nintendo had proper support from all parties.

All Nintendo needs is third party and they could have the west in their hands. Third party is much more important than you think and play a large role in why Microsoft and Sony have success in the first place. Nintendos first party sales on popular consoles put both brands to shame, so first party is NOT the problem. 

Nintendo couldn't get to 40 million with the N64...even with great second party from western developer Rare. GoldenEye, Killer Instinct, Conker, Banjo Kazooie and more did not change a thing. 

Sony still trouned them to death with what kids?

Try to figure out what caused Nintendos sales to drop from SNES levels to N64 levels. Look it up and get back to me.

Sony's sales were inflated by the CD player as just like the Wii was with it's motion controls.

Western IPs weren't Nintendo's problem back then. It was an era where games like Crash and Spyro could still generate mass profit. It's not like that anymore. Times have changed and so has the gaming market. The Japanese want handhelds and the west want western appealing games. Nintendo needs that in the form of exclusives. The 360 fell off once it stopped providing exclusives. Nintendo's Wii U is like that except it didn't already lure 80m in the beginning with exclusives that appealed to the west.

Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party. They need new first party western exclusive IPs.



spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Nintendo needs western third party. That is their problem. They dont need western first party. Look at what western first party did for Sony in Japan. As far as sales are concerned being alienated by western tastes has caused the Japanese primarily to only look to Nintendo for specific games.

Nintendo needs to open their mind to third party and get back to the business of being competitive instead of being as ignorant as they always were. If they cant work with them they will continue to have these issues.


That's not true at all. The Japanese are moving away from consoles, not from Sony. Even then, Sony makes primerily western games now which is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying Nintend needs to add western IP.

And no, Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party. 3rd party games will never sell on a Nintendo console until they have exclusive IP that will lure in that same audience. It's the reason why literally every single western 3rd party game has positively flopped on the Wii U. There's no audience. Nintendo needs to force that audience on to their consoles by giving them amazing games of that style they want, that they literally can't and will never get anywhere else but on Nintendo. That's what Sony does with Uncharted, TLoU, God of War, Killzone, InFamous, Little Big Planet, Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper, Heavenly Sword, and Resistance. That's what Microsoft does with Halo, Gears of War, Fable, Forza, Crackdown, Viva Piniata, Quantum Break, and Perfect Dark along with exclusive deals with games like Bioshock, Sunset Overdrive, Titanfall, Call of Duty, and Mass Effect. Compared to that, Nintendo doesn't compete. In the west. 


The Japanese will still buy consoles if they appeal to them. The Wii U has yet to have anything and Sony keeps looking at the west for profit instead of realizing Japan is there. Microsoft...well..they have no shot. I was alluding to the fact earlier than japan is turning to Nintendo . When I say Nintendo I am primarily focusing on the DS. Why might you ask? The DS has not changed from classic Nintendo sensibilities and harkens back to the days when Nintendo had proper support from all parties.

All Nintendo needs is third party and they could have the west in their hands. Third party is much more important than you think and play a large role in why Microsoft and Sony have success in the first place. Nintendos first party sales on popular consoles put both brands to shame, so first party is NOT the problem. 

Nintendo couldn't get to 40 million with the N64...even with great second party from western developer Rare. GoldenEye, Killer Instinct, Conker, Banjo Kazooie and more did not change a thing. 

Sony still trouned them to death with what kids?

Try to figure out what caused Nintendos sales to drop from SNES levels to N64 levels. Look it up and get back to me.

Sony's sales were inflated by the CD player as just like the Wii was with it's motion controls.

Western IPs weren't Nintendo's problem back then. It was an era where games like Crash and Spyro could still generate mass profit. It's not like that anymore. Times have changed and so has the gaming market. The Japanese want handhelds and the west want western appealing games. Nintendo needs that in the form of exclusives. The 360 fell off once it stopped providing exclusives. Nintendo's Wii U is like that except it didn't already lure 80m in the beginning with exclusives that appealed to the west.

Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party. They need new first party western exclusive IPs.

Your logic brings them to the N64 predicament. If quality exclusive games from the west not proving a damn thing to help them says anything look no further than the N64. 

The problem is third party. Without third party Sony and Microsoft would've lost 60-70% of their fanbase. When Nintendo had proper third party in the 80's and 90's they sold in the high ninties to sixty million consoles. Without third party, they couldnt even reach anywhere near those desired numbers. Look at the sales once the third parties made a mass exodus from Nintendo and Sega to Sony. 

Look at the sales. I don't need to say anything else because the sales speak for themselves. This is exactly why Nintendo pandered back to third party with the Wii U but were too late to fix anything about the Wii U because the hardware wasnt up to par with third party demands. Everyone needs to work with third parties these days since Nintendo cant just dominate companies and have third parties following their lead. Nintendo ran third party with an iron fist until Sony came and they found someone else to work with who wouldnt treat them like crap.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Nintendo needs western third party. That is their problem. They dont need western first party. Look at what western first party did for Sony in Japan. As far as sales are concerned being alienated by western tastes has caused the Japanese primarily to only look to Nintendo for specific games.

Nintendo needs to open their mind to third party and get back to the business of being competitive instead of being as ignorant as they always were. If they cant work with them they will continue to have these issues.


That's not true at all. The Japanese are moving away from consoles, not from Sony. Even then, Sony makes primerily western games now which is not what I'm suggesting. I'm saying Nintend needs to add western IP.

And no, Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party. 3rd party games will never sell on a Nintendo console until they have exclusive IP that will lure in that same audience. It's the reason why literally every single western 3rd party game has positively flopped on the Wii U. There's no audience. Nintendo needs to force that audience on to their consoles by giving them amazing games of that style they want, that they literally can't and will never get anywhere else but on Nintendo. That's what Sony does with Uncharted, TLoU, God of War, Killzone, InFamous, Little Big Planet, Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, Sly Cooper, Heavenly Sword, and Resistance. That's what Microsoft does with Halo, Gears of War, Fable, Forza, Crackdown, Viva Piniata, Quantum Break, and Perfect Dark along with exclusive deals with games like Bioshock, Sunset Overdrive, Titanfall, Call of Duty, and Mass Effect. Compared to that, Nintendo doesn't compete. In the west. 


The Japanese will still buy consoles if they appeal to them. The Wii U has yet to have anything and Sony keeps looking at the west for profit instead of realizing Japan is there. Microsoft...well..they have no shot. I was alluding to the fact earlier than japan is turning to Nintendo . When I say Nintendo I am primarily focusing on the DS. Why might you ask? The DS has not changed from classic Nintendo sensibilities and harkens back to the days when Nintendo had proper support from all parties.

All Nintendo needs is third party and they could have the west in their hands. Third party is much more important than you think and play a large role in why Microsoft and Sony have success in the first place. Nintendos first party sales on popular consoles put both brands to shame, so first party is NOT the problem. 

Nintendo couldn't get to 40 million with the N64...even with great second party from western developer Rare. GoldenEye, Killer Instinct, Conker, Banjo Kazooie and more did not change a thing. 

Sony still trouned them to death with what kids?

Try to figure out what caused Nintendos sales to drop from SNES levels to N64 levels. Look it up and get back to me.

Sony's sales were inflated by the CD player as just like the Wii was with it's motion controls.

Western IPs weren't Nintendo's problem back then. It was an era where games like Crash and Spyro could still generate mass profit. It's not like that anymore. Times have changed and so has the gaming market. The Japanese want handhelds and the west want western appealing games. Nintendo needs that in the form of exclusives. The 360 fell off once it stopped providing exclusives. Nintendo's Wii U is like that except it didn't already lure 80m in the beginning with exclusives that appealed to the west.

Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party. They need new first party western exclusive IPs.

Your logic brings them to the N64 predicament. If quality exclusive games from the west not proving a damn thing to help them says anything look no further than the N64. 

The problem is third party. Without third party Sony and Microsoft would've lost 60-70% of their fanbase.


"Western IPs weren't Nintendo's problem back then."

No it doesn't.



Dillon's Rolling Western

Pushmo

Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword

Ketzal's Corridors

Kid Icarus: Uprising

Steel Diver

Denpa Men

Youkai Watch

Golden Sun 4

Tomadochi Life

Crashmo

Dillon's Rolling Western: The Last Ranger

and many others.

 

If you include 2nd Party games:

Bayonetta 2

Lego City Undercover

The Wonderful 101

And more.

 

And then 3rd party exclusives:

ZombiU

Kingdom Hearts 3D

Several Resident Evil games

Bravely Default

Bravely Second

Monster Hunter 3

Monster Hunter 4

Several Final Fantasy games

King of Pirates

Rodea the Sky Soldier

And soo much more.

 

And Nintendo is making more new IPs that will appeal to western gamers.

I don't see the reason to complain, espeicially with how long the competition also takes to pump out any new IPs that will really stand out for getting sales.



spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:

Your logic brings them to the N64 predicament. If quality exclusive games from the west not proving a damn thing to help them says anything look no further than the N64. 

The problem is third party. Without third party Sony and Microsoft would've lost 60-70% of their fanbase.


"Western IPs weren't Nintendo's problem back then."

No it doesn't.


No it doesn't what? What does that mean? Nintendo didnt have to worry about western IP's in the NES/SNES era because even though they couldn't stand Nintendos ignorant guts they couldn't profit without them. They were stuck until another company would help them get away from Nintendo until Nintendo would work with them and straighten up.