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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo needs more western studios and more original western IPs to appeal to the west.

padib said:

spemanig said:

And my point stands that your point is flat. Nintendo doesn't have "a few years of market drought." They've had two whole decades of steady decline, only to be tempererily spiked by an intelligently orchestrated fad, and now the decline is back on schedule. I'm not critisizing their games. I love their games. I've owned almost every Nintendo console and I've play games from every system. I'm no stranger to their mass appeal, but mass appeal doesn't mean universal appeal and now that overstretched appeal is being outdone by more focused and direct western targeting appeal. They need to get with the program.

Let me give you a hint, the first game in the category you listed, in the top selling games of all time, is Uncharted 2 at rank #117  with 6.38m units.

In the meantime, the first gamecube game (obviously by Nintendo) ranks at #99 with 7m sold, that was Smash. This is Nintendo's rock bottom.

For the N64, the first ranks at #41, that's Super Mario 64 with roughly 12m units, when Nintendo was deserted by 3rd parties and plagued with the image of being 2nd best.

To point out, these were at a time when the total home console sales did not exceed 200m units (gen 6) and even 150m (gen 5). We are now in an industry that sells nearly 265m home console units (gen 7).

So, quick newsflash, Uncharted won't save Nintendo anytime soon. I'm not saying it doesn't have any value, ask Rol I personally suggested Uncharted many times for Nintendo, but the truth is that there are priorities for the company. First they need to nail their main course, only then can they wish to conquer uncharted territory.

No pun intended.

Makes sense. While I love Uncharted, Sony needs to start trying to get back in the good graces of Nintendo for leaving them hanging for so long.  They need to spearhead an initiative to get more Japanese RPG's on the console. If Sony can sell at least 20 million consoles in Japan this gen the battle with Microsoft will already be over. 



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Kaizar said:

Dillon's Rolling Western

Pushmo

Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword

Ketzal's Corridors

Kid Icarus: Uprising

Steel Diver

Denpa Men

Youkai Watch

Golden Sun 4

Tomadochi Life

Crashmo

Dillon's Rolling Western: The Last Ranger

and many others.

 

If you include 2nd Party games:

Bayonetta 2

Lego City Undercover

The Wonderful 101

And more.

 

And then 3rd party exclusives:

ZombiU

Kingdom Hearts 3D

Several Resident Evil games

Bravely Default

Bravely Second

Monster Hunter 3

Monster Hunter 4

Several Final Fantasy games

King of Pirates

Rodea the Sky Soldier

And soo much more.

 

And Nintendo is making more new IPs that will appeal to western gamers.

I don't see the reason to complain, espeicially with how long the competition also takes to pump out any new IPs that will really stand out for getting sales.


Absolutely none of those games appeals to a western audience. They appeal to a Nintendo audience.



spemanig said:
Kaizar said:

Dillon's Rolling Western

Pushmo

Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword

Ketzal's Corridors

Kid Icarus: Uprising

Steel Diver

Denpa Men

Youkai Watch

Golden Sun 4

Tomadochi Life

Crashmo

Dillon's Rolling Western: The Last Ranger

and many others.

 

If you include 2nd Party games:

Bayonetta 2

Lego City Undercover

The Wonderful 101

And more.

 

And then 3rd party exclusives:

ZombiU

Kingdom Hearts 3D

Several Resident Evil games

Bravely Default

Bravely Second

Monster Hunter 3

Monster Hunter 4

Several Final Fantasy games

King of Pirates

Rodea the Sky Soldier

And soo much more.

 

And Nintendo is making more new IPs that will appeal to western gamers.

I don't see the reason to complain, espeicially with how long the competition also takes to pump out any new IPs that will really stand out for getting sales.


Absolutely none of those games appeals to a western audience. They appeal to a Nintendo audience.


Monster Hunter and Bayonetta appeal to an audience outside of Nintendo as well. Nintendo has never had a Bayonetta until now. The problem with Bayonetta is that it didnt profit. Platinum Games isn't exactly a household name in the west. Kingdom Hearts is more associated to Sony even today than Nintendo.

Its a risk even putting Bayonetta on a Nintendo console when the fanbase isnt even large enough and not even Mario 3D world cannot even save it. These are dark times and before Nintendo takes a risk on a game like that they should really use the heavy hitters to make the Wii U more appealing.



padib said:

spemanig said:

And my point stands that your point is flat. Nintendo doesn't have "a few years of market drought." They've had two whole decades of steady decline, only to be tempererily spiked by an intelligently orchestrated fad, and now the decline is back on schedule. I'm not critisizing their games. I love their games. I've owned almost every Nintendo console and I've play games from every system. I'm no stranger to their mass appeal, but mass appeal doesn't mean universal appeal and now that overstretched appeal is being outdone by more focused and direct western targeting appeal. They need to get with the program.

Let me give you a hint, the first game in the category you listed, in the top selling games of all time, is Uncharted 2 at rank #117  with 6.38m units.

In the meantime, the first gamecube game (obviously by Nintendo) ranks at #99 with 7m sold, that was Smash. This is Nintendo's rock bottom.

For the N64, the first ranks at #41, that's Super Mario 64 with roughly 12m units, when Nintendo was deserted by 3rd parties and plagued with the image of being 2nd best.

To point out, these were at a time when the total home console sales did not exceed 200m units (gen 6) and even 150m (gen 5). We are now in an industry that sells nearly 265m home console units (gen 7).

So, quick newsflash, Uncharted won't save Nintendo anytime soon. I'm not saying it doesn't have any value, ask Rol I personally suggested Uncharted many times for Nintendo, but the truth is that there are priorities for the company. First they need to nail their main course, only then can they wish to conquer uncharted territory.

No pun intended.


I chuckled, lol.

It doesn't matter, because most of the people buying Uncharted 2 aren't buying any of those Nintendo games, while most people buying Smash for the gamecube is buying every other Nintendo game you listed. There's an audience Nintendo isn't getting. I'm not saying Nintendo's IPs don't sell, I'm saying they don't sell to an increasingly larger market of gamers who would rather buy the console where they won't miss Uncharted than the one that won't miss Smash Bros.

The N64 only sold 30mil. The GCN only sold 20mil. The Wii U is on track to sell less.  Those sale numbers mean nothing if they aren't driving enough hardware. The Nintendo brand is sinking. Meanwhile Playstation brand is staying afloat because of the moderate sales of those western IPs. Western IPs that bring western  gamers who won't but the Wii U because they'll miss out on western games. Getting back what has become the vast magority of gamers isn't uncharted territory. We've been settled in for over a decade, but Nintendo is still only servicing the slowly dwindling reservation.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:
Kaizar said:

Dillon's Rolling Western

Pushmo

Sakura Samurai: Art of the Sword

Ketzal's Corridors

Kid Icarus: Uprising

Steel Diver

Denpa Men

Youkai Watch

Golden Sun 4

Tomadochi Life

Crashmo

Dillon's Rolling Western: The Last Ranger

and many others.

 

If you include 2nd Party games:

Bayonetta 2

Lego City Undercover

The Wonderful 101

And more.

 

And then 3rd party exclusives:

ZombiU

Kingdom Hearts 3D

Several Resident Evil games

Bravely Default

Bravely Second

Monster Hunter 3

Monster Hunter 4

Several Final Fantasy games

King of Pirates

Rodea the Sky Soldier

And soo much more.

 

And Nintendo is making more new IPs that will appeal to western gamers.

I don't see the reason to complain, espeicially with how long the competition also takes to pump out any new IPs that will really stand out for getting sales.


Absolutely none of those games appeals to a western audience. They appeal to a Nintendo audience.


Monster Hunter and Bayonetta appeal to an audience outside of Nintendo as well. Nintendo has never had a Bayonetta until now. The problem with Bayonetta is that it didnt profit. Platinum Games isn't exactly a household name in the west. Kingdom Hearts is more associated to Sony even today than Nintendo.

Its a risk even putting Bayonetta on a Nintendo console when the fanbase isnt even large enough and not even Mario 3D world cannot even save it. These are dark times and before Nintendo takes a risk on a game like that they should really use the heavy hitters to make the Wii U more appealing.


The problem with Bayonetta is that it's just one game. And it's not western. It's niche because it doesn't cater to a western audience. And good on it, but that means nothing when it comes to making the Wii U a must have console for the majority of gamers.

They need western heavy hitters, and a lot of them. If Nintendo announced two to three huge AAA western style IPs by a western developement team as new Nintendo first party IPs, it would cause a shit storm, because now there's games most western gamers will want on a system they thought they didn't. If last E3, Sunset Overdrive, Destiny, and a new Iron Man game that looked as pomising as the Arkham series were all announced to be coming out this year ans next exclusively for the Wii U, the Wii U would be doing exponencially better, because it would have games that most of the dominantly western gaming market is craving for. Nintendo needs that.



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spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:


Monster Hunter and Bayonetta appeal to an audience outside of Nintendo as well. Nintendo has never had a Bayonetta until now. The problem with Bayonetta is that it didnt profit. Platinum Games isn't exactly a household name in the west. Kingdom Hearts is more associated to Sony even today than Nintendo.

Its a risk even putting Bayonetta on a Nintendo console when the fanbase isnt even large enough and not even Mario 3D world cannot even save it. These are dark times and before Nintendo takes a risk on a game like that they should really use the heavy hitters to make the Wii U more appealing.


The problem with Bayonetta is that it's just one game. And it's not western. It's niche because it doesn't cater to a western audience. And good on it, but that means nothing when it comes to making the Wii U a must have console for the majority of gamers.

They need western heavy hitters, and a lot of them. If Nintendo announced two to three huge AAA western style IPs by a western developement team as new Nintendo first party IPs, it would cause a shit storm, because now there's games most western gamers will want on a system they thought they didn't. If last E3, Sunset Overdrive, Destiny, and a new Iron Man game that looked as pomising as the Arkham series were all announced to be coming out this year ans next exclusively for the Wii U, the Wii U would be doing exponencially better, because it would have games that most of the dominantly western gaming market is craving for. Nintendo needs that.


I assure you, the majority of bayonettas sales come from the west. The problem with the game is that Platinum Games titles are extremely niche. Put the game on Nintendo console and you decrease the chances of survival even greater. Nintendo has paid for two Platinum Games titles and one has already failed to properly impress.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:
Kaizar said:


The problem with Bayonetta is that it's just one game. And it's not western. It's niche because it doesn't cater to a western audience. And good on it, but that means nothing when it comes to making the Wii U a must have console for the majority of gamers.

They need western heavy hitters, and a lot of them. If Nintendo announced two to three huge AAA western style IPs by a western developement team as new Nintendo first party IPs, it would cause a shit storm, because now there's games most western gamers will want on a system they thought they didn't. If last E3, Sunset Overdrive, Destiny, and a new Iron Man game that looked as pomising as the Arkham series were all announced to be coming out this year ans next exclusively for the Wii U, the Wii U would be doing exponencially better, because it would have games that most of the dominantly western gaming market is craving for. Nintendo needs that.


I assure you, the majority of bayonettas sales come from the west. The problem with the game is that Platinum Games titles are extremely niche. Put the game on Nintendo console and you decrease the chances of survival even greater. Nintendo has paid for two Platinum Games titles and one has already failed to properly impress.


Just because most of it's sales are from the west doesn't mean it appeals to the west; that just means it really doesn't appeal to the Japanese. The reason their titles as niche is because they don't appeal to the west, where the vast majority of gamers are. It's the same think with JRPGs. Persona get's a lot of it's sales from the west, but that doesn't make it a popular western game.

W101 didn't fail to impress. Almost everyone who played it loved it. But all of those people would have bought a Wii U if it it came without it. It would have don't far worse on other consoles. At least with Bayonetta 2, there's a tiny audience who are willing to buy an entire console filled with games they don't want to play it. Imagine that on a grander scale with something like The Division as an exclusive Wii U first party IP. That wouldn't fail to properly impress.



spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:


Just because most of it's sales are from the west doesn't mean it appeals to the west; that just means it really doesn't appeal to the Japanese. The reason their titles as niche is because they don't appeal to the west, where the vast majority of gamers are. It's the same think with JRPGs. Persona get's a lot of it's sales from the west, but that doesn't make it a popular western game.

W101 didn't fail to impress. Almost everyone who played it loved it. But all of those people would have bought a Wii U if it it came without it. It would have don't far worse on other consoles. At least with Bayonetta 2, there's a tiny audience who are willing to buy an entire console filled with games they don't want to play it. Imagine that on a grander scale with something like The Division as an exclusive Wii U first party IP. That wouldn't fail to properly impress.


 You're grasping at straws. You just said the game appeals to Nintendo gamers out of a list of games.

This is all I have left to say..

osGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Bayonetta PS3 2009 Action Sega 0.41 0.36 0.21 0.15 1.13
2 Bayonetta X360 2009 Action Sega 0.49 0.23 0.09 0.08 0.89
3 Bayonetta 2 WiiU 2014 Action PlatinumGames 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Total0.900.600.300.232.02

 

It DOES appeal to the west. The problem with the game is that the sales were not up to stuff for Segas taste.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
spemanig said:


Just because most of it's sales are from the west doesn't mean it appeals to the west; that just means it really doesn't appeal to the Japanese. The reason their titles as niche is because they don't appeal to the west, where the vast majority of gamers are. It's the same think with JRPGs. Persona get's a lot of it's sales from the west, but that doesn't make it a popular western game.

W101 didn't fail to impress. Almost everyone who played it loved it. But all of those people would have bought a Wii U if it it came without it. It would have don't far worse on other consoles. At least with Bayonetta 2, there's a tiny audience who are willing to buy an entire console filled with games they don't want to play it. Imagine that on a grander scale with something like The Division as an exclusive Wii U first party IP. That wouldn't fail to properly impress.


 You're grasping at straws. You just said the game appeals to Nintendo gamers out of a list of games.

This is all I have left to say..

osGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Bayonetta PS3 2009 Action Sega 0.41 0.36 0.21 0.15 1.13
2 Bayonetta X360 2009 Action Sega 0.49 0.23 0.09 0.08 0.89
3 Bayonetta 2 WiiU 2014 Action PlatinumGames 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00
Total0.900.600.300.232.02

 

It DOES appeal to the west. The problem with the game is that the sales were not up to stuff for Segas taste.


Those sales aren't up to snuff with anyone's tastes, dude. That's not appealing to the west. That's appealing to a niche.



Bayonetta 2 will most likely go the way that Infamous Second Son did. Which is pretty good.