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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo needs more western studios and more original western IPs to appeal to the west.

Vinniegambini on 22 May 2014
spemanig said:
Vinniegambini said:
spemanig said:
padib said:
spemanig said:
Vinniegambini said:



...Is that a joke?

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/251476/ps4-vs-xbox-one-vs-wii-u-global-launch-sales-comparison/

The same argument could be said between 3DS vs Vita.

Again : Nintendo's concern should not be in creating Intellectual Properties specifically tailored for Western markets; instead, Nintendo should seek new partnerships with already established properties and develop new properties that have worldwide appeal - Mario & Company are great but Nintendo's arsenal, though arguably the largest in gaming, needs to be larger.


The Vita's failure is an entirely separate issue of trying to cater to a home console audience on a handheld. Those people can already play those Vita games better on the come console they most likely already own. They're catering to an audience that only practically exists in Japan, there come consoles aren't popular, so there isn't competition. (and even there it isn't doing so well because, again, home consoles and subsequently their type of games aren't popular over there)

So again: Their current properties are not enough. Most (console) western gamers want (console) games Nintendo just isn't providing. New people making the same (console) games won't do anything, just like a western studio making Sonic won't suddenly make Sonic Boom sell better in the west. They need new (console) IP that (console) western gamers want and aren't getting from the Wii U (console).

We're going to have to agree to disagree as I simply do not understand the point you are trying to make.

Nintendo's properties have a broad appeal; as such, Nintendo is able to sell their products in a number of countries and achieve a certain level of success.

Creating exclusive software solely for the Western markets limits Nintendo's possibilities to recoup their initial investment in the title. Would the launch of that title be successful in Japan? Would emerging countries such as China and India authorize Nintendo to release such a game in that marketplace? There is a risk.

The mature western IP is a crowded market with low-growth opportunities; Nintendo is much better off investing in new Intellectual Properties that have a broad appeal.



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Frogger on 22 May 2014
marioboy2004 said:
Never said:

They should buy ubisoft.

Of course when the wii was big was the time to buy new studios. They could have supported the wii properly throughout it's life and made a lot of money in the process due to it's install base. Then they'd have been prepared to supply all the games they needed for the wii u to do well regardless of third parties.

To be far they have expanded a lot. I don't think it's as much of a west vs east issue as some make out. They just need a steady supply of appealing games that sell well to the nintendo audience and attract new people to the system. They can't compete with an xbox when it comes to shoot em ups and shouldn't waste a ton of money trying, but if nintendo gamers have a casual interest in the odd shooter they can still play 2 cod games and a splinter cell on the wii u, along with range of other games... and a lot of platformers.


I've said this many times before; they indeed should buy ubisoft...

here's the pro's-

1.  Have access to western developers and western Intellectual prop

2.  Fill the void Rare left with a company that has done fairly well on Nintendo systems and has a similar philosophy to Nintendo

3.  Gives Nintendo a huge company to be that one-two punch to have a steady flow of games throughout the year.

4.  Have HD ready developers to assist Nintendo with their own franchis games

5.  Has IP that complement Nintendos family friendly image (Watch Dogs, Assasins Creed, Splinter Cell, Tom Clancy, Prince of Persia, Beyond Good and Evil, etc)

6.  This move will show Nintendo is not inclusive (as in Great Wall of China or the Berlin Wall) to only Japan developers and may bring even more western 3rd party support

 


Cons: They can't afford Ubisoft.



RubberWhistleHistle on 22 May 2014
spemanig said:
RubberWhistleHistle said:
DeadnBuried said:
NintendoPie said:
Your example of Sony was not a good one. Several of Nintendo's "Japanese" games have sold more than pretty much every single iteration you have listed. There seems to be a conundrum... for you.

Anyhow, I do agree that Nintendo needs to expand in general. They need to increase output of what they already have.

You say that, and yet here we are, the PS4 sold more in three months than the Wii U did in fifteen months. The Wii may have had some massive sellers, but before that? The GameCube and N64 both did pretty poorly compared to their competition, and the Wii U is on course to do as much as they did. The Wii was a fluke. People are interested in Nintendo's franchises, sure, but only under the right circumstances; a much, much lower price than the competition, and a flashy, unique marketing gimmick to make it cool. If Mario, Donkey Kong and Pikmin were enough to sell consoles with their "global appeal", Nintendo wouldn't be in the position they're in. 

Meanwhile, Uncharted sells a minimum of 5million units a pop, The Last of Us sold over 6 million, Gean Turismo typically sells a good 7 million without even breaking a sweat, typically far more, and every God of War game (aside from Ascension, being an unnecessary prequel) sold at least 4 million units too. Sure, not all of their franchises sell that much, but they're usually all profitable, having sold 2 million units. 

Nintendo definitely need to expand. That isn't even up for debate. I bought a PS4 at launch, and still have no interest in buying a Wii U, and you know why? I've owned every other Nintendo console, and eah one just gets a new iteration of the same few games, and it's really getting old. I can't get excited for more Mario, more Zelda, more Super Smash, more Mario Kart, more Donkey Kong, more Metroid, more Kirby, etc. I want deeper games, with new characters, new worlds, new stories, Nintendo offer none of those things. And until they do, I don't think I'll ever bother going back. 

well i bought a wii u at launch and still have no interest in buying a ps4. seriously, what is so great about ps4? i really just do not see it. im going to make a thread about it as soon as i have enough posts, but i really want to see what it is about the ps4 that people are happy about NOW. i am really curious.

anyways,

we are talking about games here. specifically western games and western studios. sony didnt sell that many ps4s because of the games they had at launch, i think we all know that. so that point really has nothing to do with whether or not nintendo's big sellers last generation compared to sony's are sustainable or enough to carry them through.

i dont know exactly what youre arguing here. nintendo is a profitable company. their games dont need to sell millions to turn a profit whereas sony's do. you say nintendo needs to stop making new iterations of the same few games, yet you mention smash bros for some reason. we are about to get our fourth version of the game (since 1999) whereas uncharted 4 is going to be around the corner (since 2007). that also goes for god of war. donkey kong just recently got revived, and while i do feel like tropical freeze was a copy past effort, dkcr was a very welcoming breath of fresh air. mario kart gets ONE game per platform, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. thats how it should be. it wold be criminal to release a console without mario kart. 


No. They aren't. They haven't been for three years now.

Here's the thing. Nintendo doesn't need your dollar. They need his dollar. You already have a Wii U. You're not the reason the Wii U is failing right now. He is. Nintendo needs to cater to him. They're already catering to you.

It's not about what games the PS4 has right now. It's about what games people expect to get over it's entire life cycle. Clearly, there are more people in the west who care about the next Uncharted/God of War/InFAmous than care about Mario/Zelda/Metroid. Nintendo needs to cater to them because right now, they aren't at all and it's costing them major sales. Nintendo's current IP out put isn't enough anymore. This whole Nintendo games save Nintendo consoles thing is a myth. Nintendo needs to play nice with the west if they want to thrive with the west. They need to make everyone look over and actually get jealous of their line up, because right now the only people interested are people who were already going to get a Wii U. Who they need right now are people still deciding whether to get PS4 or XBO. They need curveballs.

Nintendo needs its own Sunset Overdrives/The Order: 1886's/Destinies/Project C.A.R.S.'s/The Division's right now. They need games that they know people in the west will look at and automatically want, "fanboy" (I hate that stupid word) or not.

They don't need you anymore. You've done your part. They have you on lock. They already know how to please you. And me. They need to start pleasing DeadnBuried, because he'll never get a Wii U the way they're doing thing now, and the majority of the western market is exactly like him; que sales figures.

Vinniegambini said:
I disagree to a certain extent.

I sincerely believe that Retro Studios should have more autonomy. Furthermore, Retro should expand and become a 2-team developer where one would develop franchises tailored for the NOA and NOE markets. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nintendo's concern should not be in creating Intellectual Properties specifically tailored for Western markets; instead, Nintendo should seek new partnerships with already established properties and develop new properties that have worldwide appeal - Mario & Company are great but Nintendo's arsenal, though arguably the largest in gaming, needs to be larger.

Their current properties are not enough. Most western gamers want games Nintendo just isn't providing. New people making the same games won't do anything, just like a western studio making Sonic won't suddenly make Sonic Boom sell better in the west. They need new IP that western gamers want and aren't getting from the Wii U.

i want the wii u to cater as many people as possible. i am a fan of variety. i am not a fan, however, of making games that are movies and not games, and games full of unlockables you have to pay for. it almost doesnt matter what games nintendo comes out with as long as they stick to that. catering to the west i feel would be catering to all those things, and you know what? thats bullshit.

but the main point that i think addresses all this (i think we are straying from the point a little bit here) is that nintendo doesnt necessarily need to change the kinds of games they make. i mean, i do think they need to branch out more and try to make their lineup as varied as possible, but i think they need the main thing here is marketing. the marketing needs to be better. i guarantee that there are a ton of people out there who would want a wii u but dont even know it. i met one person myself at somebodys house who had a wii u, but had it in his closet and didnt use it for over half a year because he didnt know about some of the software on it and basically gave in to this "ps4 and x1 are next gen and wii u isnt" bullshit. basically, i am just saying that there are a lot of people out there that this device could be marketed to, and nintendo kind of dropped the ball on that. (again, this point has nothing to do with games).



Frogger on 22 May 2014
Vinniegambini said:
spemanig said:
Vinniegambini said:
spemanig said:
padib said:
spemanig said:
Vinniegambini said:

 

 
 

We're going to have to agree to disagree as I simply do not understand the point you are trying to make.

Nintendo's properties have a broad appeal; as such, Nintendo is able to sell their products in a number of countries and achieve a certain level of success.

Creating exclusive software solely for the Western markets limits Nintendo's possibilities to recoup their initial investment in the title. Would the launch of that title be successful in Japan? Would emerging countries such as China and India authorize Nintendo to release such a game in that marketplace? There is a risk.

The mature western IP is a crowded market with low-growth opportunities; Nintendo is much better off investing in new Intellectual Properties that have a broad appeal.


They absolutely would not be successful in Japan. That doesn't matter, because Japan isn't buying consoles anymore. They wouldn't be creating exclusing soley for western audience because they'd still have their western IPs. I think they should create new IPs for those markets too if their current ones don't sell well/aren't authurized there. The same way we don't get some games localized, they wouldn't get games that wouldn't sell there localized. There is not greater than average risk.

The mature western IP is selling and not to Nintendo. They have enough broad appeal IPs. No broad IP will be broad enough to get a Halo fan to buy a Wii U, but a new IP like Destiny might. They need that. And that isn't me saying they need to copy popular games. That's me saying western developers know what western gamers want and Nintendo needs those western developers to make western IPs to get those western gamers they don't have.



Frogger on 22 May 2014
RubberWhistleHistle said:
spemanig said:
RubberWhistleHistle said:
DeadnBuried said:
NintendoPie said:

i want the wii u to cater as many people as possible. i am a fan of variety. i am not a fan, however, of making games that are movies and not games, and games full of unlockables you have to pay for. it almost doesnt matter what games nintendo comes out with as long as they stick to that. catering to the west i feel would be catering to all those things, and you know what? thats bullshit.

but the main point that i think addresses all this (i think we are straying from the point a little bit here) is that nintendo doesnt necessarily need to change the kinds of games they make. i mean, i do think they need to branch out more and try to make their lineup as varied as possible, but i think they need the main thing here is marketing. the marketing needs to be better. i guarantee that there are a ton of people out there who would want a wii u but dont even know it. i met one person myself at somebodys house who had a wii u, but had it in his closet and didnt use it for over half a year because he didnt know about some of the software on it and basically gave in to this "ps4 and x1 are next gen and wii u isnt" bullshit. basically, i am just saying that there are a lot of people out there that this device could be marketed to, and nintendo kind of dropped the ball on that. (again, this point has nothing to do with games).


I don't like movie games either. I think TLoU is the most overrated mediocrity to ever stain the 7th generation. Guess what, that doesn't matter because 6m+ western gamers think it's a gift from god and most of them won't get a Wii U because they won't get an experience like that here. This isn't a wish list. Games like that sell, and people like it.

As for the DLC ripoff model, I agree. But that's not a reason people buy games, so DLC wouldn't be an issue. They wouldn't lose western sales because their shooter didn't have paid for DLC.

I never said they need to change their line up. I said they need to add to it. Their marketing is an issue, but no amount of marketing can get someone to buy a product they don't want, and there are too many people, in the west, who just won't want what the Wii U is offering. Their are a lot of different reasons, but the type of games you make can't be allowed to be one of them. If it is, you get sales like the Wii U.

Power is a small issue. Third party games is a bigger issue. Not having exclusives that appeal to the two most important (and honestly the only relevant) markets for home console in the industry, America and Europe, is a monumentally fatal issue.



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Soundwave on 22 May 2014

Well a few things ... Nintendo probably will be able to support their own console largely on their own simply by streamlining their handheld/console division behind one iOS like shop which then allows the same game to be played on various devices.

And that will also reduce the need for two Mario Karts, two 3D Marios, two 2D Marios, two Animal Crossings, multiple Zeldas, now two Smash Bros, etc. etc. each generation, freeing up those dev teams to work on new/original content and ideas. They can make the one Mario game, and then go work on something else.

That said, lets face it, there is NO Japanese console audience anymore. If Nintendo has an interest in continuing to make games for play on the home television, they have to start accounting for Western tastes moreso.

Some one above mentioned maybe they should cut a deal ... I think perhaps they should look at a large scale deal with Disney/Marvel to make games set in the Marvel Universe. For one, no character property is bigger in the West (at least North America) right now. Iron Man, Avengers, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc., if Nintendo could set up a deal whereby they got several games (exclusive) from Disney in this vein or could even use their own studios like Retro to make these games, it would probably help them a lot.

And I think Marvel straddles that line between family friendly, yet still being cool/relevant to "dudebros". Kids love it, but so do teenagers and grown adults. Marvel is the true epitome of having characters that *really* appeal to everyone (sorry Mickey, take a seat).

Kinda similar to the Star Wars deal Nintendo used to have in the 1990s with Lucasfilm (which ironically is now owned by Disney too), I think Nintendo should look at a collaboration there.



Frogger on 22 May 2014
Soundwave said:
Well a few things ... Nintendo probably will be able to support their own console largely on their own simply by streamlining their handheld/console division behind one iOS like shop which then allows the same game to be played on various devices.

And that will also reduce the need for two Mario Karts, two 3D Marios, two 2D Marios, two Animal Crossings, multiple Zeldas, now two Smash Bros, etc. etc. each generation, freeing up those dev teams to work on new/original content and ideas. They can make the one Mario game, and then go work on something else.

That said, lets face it, there is NO Japanese console audience anymore. If Nintendo has an interest in continuing to make games for play on the home television, they have to start accounting for Western tastes moreso.

Some one above mentioned maybe they should cut a deal ... I think perhaps they should look at a large scale deal with Disney/Marvel to make games set in the Marvel Universe. For one, no character property is bigger in the West (at least North America) right now. Iron Man, Avengers, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc., if Nintendo could set up a deal whereby they got several games (exclusive) from Disney in this vein or could even use their own studios like Retro to make these games, it would probably help them a lot.

And I think Marvel straddles that line between family friendly, yet still being cool/relevant to "dudebros". Kids love it, but so do teenagers and grown adults. Marvel is the true epitome of having characters that *really* appeal to everyone (sorry Mickey, take a seat).

Kinda similar to the Star Wars deal Nintendo used to have in the 1990s with Lucasfilm (which ironically is now owned by Disney too), I think Nintendo should look at a collaboration there.


I absultly agree with what I underlined. Handhelds only in Japan. Both in the west. That's just how things are now.

I LOVE the Disney/Marvel partnership idea!!! They could make an Iron Man game with the same prestige as the Batman Arkham games if they can get a good enough developer to do it. (and have the good sense not to try and copy it or anything else) I don't think disney owns the rights to the Spider Man games, though. Same with Captain America; they could do so much if they handled it delicately. It would also be similar to the Goldeneye deal. Bravo! Excellent example of a fantastic way for Nintendo to appeal to western gamers.

But on top of new first party studios making new western IPs.



DevilRising on 22 May 2014

And by "more western IPs", I'm just going to assume you mean "games with grim, bad ass male heroes who shoot things with guns".



Ucell on 22 May 2014
DevilRising said:
And by "more western IPs", I'm just going to assume you mean "games with grim, bad ass male heroes who shoot things with guns".

I don't think Kratos shoots things. Besides variety is better than having plumbers and chimpanzees jumping up and down in a cartoon world.



Frogger on 22 May 2014
Ucell said:
DevilRising said:
And by "more western IPs", I'm just going to assume you mean "games with grim, bad ass male heroes who shoot things with guns".

I don't think Kratos shoots things. Besides variety is better than having plumbers and chimpanzees jumping up and down in a cartoon world.


Or Sly. Or Jak. InFAmous uses super powers. Drake isn't "grim." Sackboy isn't bad ass, etc.