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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - FF 15 and KH3 makes more sense on Wii U than Xone

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
darkknightkryta said:

Shall I point out the obvious flaws in using a screenshot of compressed video footage of a pre alpha build game to judge a cartoon styled game on its graphics?

KH 1.5 and KH 2.5 are more relevant. And the changes in gameplay are what matters.

Irregardless, its completly baseless to assume that SE with develop KH 3 for the Wii U first based on said screenshots.

When it is a fact that PS has the largest KH Fanbase.

I've said it before and I'll say it again but this time in all caps and bold:

THE WII U AND XBOX ONE ARE ON EQUAL FOOTING WHEN IT COMES TO WHETHER OR NOT KH3 SHOULD BE PORTED TO SAID CONSOLE. THE ONLY SIGNIFICANT FACTORS ARE PORTING COSTS AND USERBASE.

Not only does, Xbox One have a porting advantage, but as long as it is expected to get a larger userbase than the Wii U, then its obvious to see why these decisions are being made.

How exactly is it a fact that PS has a larger kingdom hearts userbase? the same KH was never on both sony and nintendo platforms. but we do have numbers from the last few entries, and birth by sleep on psp is practically tied with 358/2 days and chain of memories on GBA. Also, dream drop distance is legging out to similar numbers.

If anything, those numbers mean Nintendo and Sony have an EQUAL amount of kingdom hearts fans.



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oniyide said:
darkknightkryta said:

I'll weigh in.  I honestly believed Square Enix was planning for Kingdom Hearts 3 on the Wii U.  From a technical standpoint, the game looks like trash.  I'll assume they were building the game around the Wii U and then progressively build on it as they develop the engine for the console.  They didn't want to announce the game without the PS4 and most likely waited.  Then things changed.  Nintendo's Wii U isn't exactly selling gangbusters and they most likely panicked and put the game on the Xbox One in hopes of getting that install base to buy the game.  Unbeknownst to them; the Xbox One is selling equally bad, but already made the announcement. That's my belief for Kingdom Hearts 3.  

Scenario 2: The game just looks bad cause they decided they're finally going to make the game and threw together something within a week for a trailer.

As far as FF 15 is concerned.  I honestly do no believe the Wii U can handle what they've shown, as is.  The kind of downgrade wouldn't be worth the headache.

problem is you are wrong. xone IS doing better than Wii U in the same time frame at a much higher price.

and the Xone is still set to stay behind wii u indefinetely and, most importantly, be less relevant in japan than the 360 was. Square would be crazy if they weren't at least considering those games, especially KH3, on wii u.



I think they chose the Xbox One because it would be a lot easier to port to it since it has a more PC-like hardware and at the same time they thought it was going to own North America (the biggest market), that isn't happening at all but that's what they thought. Probably they didn't even consider a WiiU version of their games after seeing the extremely low sales and that it would be more difficult and expensive to port to it and probably they found it not powerful enough to fulfill their visions (Nomura's team visions).



Zero999 said:

How exactly is it a fact that PS has a larger kingdom hearts userbase? the same KH was never on both sony and nintendo platforms. but we do have numbers from the last few entries, and birth by sleep on psp is practically tied with 358/2 days and chain of memories on GBA. Also, dream drop distance is legging out to similar numbers.

If anything, those numbers mean Nintendo and Sony have an EQUAL amount of kingdom hearts fans.

its a fact, because the numbered series are PlayStation exclusives. Every handheld after GBA with exception of Vita has access to at least 1 but no more than two kingdom hearts games. You can't count the handheld sales against home consoles. Com is also on PS2. PlayStation is the only the only console that Kingdom Hearts has been on.

Claiming Nintendo and Playstation have an equal amount of KH Fans is delusional, just because the games are on handheld, does not mean the fans buy the consoles.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

its a fact, because the numbered series are PlayStation exclusives. Every handheld after GBA with exception of Vita has access to at least 1 but no more than two kingdom hearts games. You can't count the handheld sales against home consoles. Com is also on PS2. PlayStation is the only the only console that Kingdom Hearts has been on.

Claiming Nintendo and Playstation have an equal amount of KH Fans is delusional, just because the games are on handheld, does not mean the fans buy the consoles.

gosh, stop it. you mention chain of memories being on ps2, well it did less than half of the GBA version. and if you think this whole decade of kingdom heart games selling equally between nintendo and sony handhelds is irrelevant, two can play this game: it will be 10+ years since KH2 on ps2 and ps4 won't ever be as sucessfull as ps2.

What you can't deny is that KH is as big on nintendo as it is on sony. MS is an incognit, but probably bellow both.



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you keep mentioning handhelds as if they have any bearing on whether or not a franchise goes to the console.
GBA+DS+3DS+PSP =/= Wii U
It does not, its that simple.
The Main Series of the game are only on PlayStation platforms, you cannot have the full experience without a PlayStation Console, even 3DS only has recaps of the previous games.
The only subset of the Nintendo Fan base that has any familiarity with Kingdom Hearts is the Handheld market, which faces barely any competition from Sony anyway.
If you are going to count the handheld fanbase for the Nintendo, then its equally valid to count that fanbase for playstation and xbox because they are separate markets.

Thus you are arguing a Moot Point.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Zero999 said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:

its a fact, because the numbered series are PlayStation exclusives. Every handheld after GBA with exception of Vita has access to at least 1 but no more than two kingdom hearts games. You can't count the handheld sales against home consoles. Com is also on PS2. PlayStation is the only the only console that Kingdom Hearts has been on.

Claiming Nintendo and Playstation have an equal amount of KH Fans is delusional, just because the games are on handheld, does not mean the fans buy the consoles.

gosh, stop it. you mention chain of memories being on ps2, well it did less than half of the GBA version. and if you think this whole decade of kingdom heart games selling equally between nintendo and sony handhelds is irrelevant, two can play this game: it will be 10+ years since KH2 on ps2 and ps4 won't ever be as sucessfull as ps2.

What you can't deny is that KH is as big on nintendo as it is on sony. MS is an incognit, but probably bellow both.

The DS had the spinoffs and just one main entry. The 3DS also had one main entry. PlayStation KH's have all been main entries.

I only got the DS and 3DS ones because I was a fan of Kingdom Hearts on the PS2 . The fanbase started with the PS2. If the main entries are on PS consoles, it makes sense that more of the fanbase will own a PS console rather than a Nintendo console. As such, you cannot say that Nintendo and PlayStation have the same number of fans.



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Zero999 said:
darkknightkryta said:
Zero999 said:

KH3 was barely in development when they announced and there's nothing undoable on those FF 15 trailers. why do people keep thinking that the experience will change if the game is a little less pretty and lower resolution?

I know Kingdom Hearts 3 was barely in development, but what they shown honestly looks like a PS3 game, if not worse.  So either what they threw together was with the Wii U in mind, or it was a rush job.  Though Final Fantasy 15 looks far more impressive and the PS4 version couldn't have been in development long when they made the trailer for it so I doubt they couldn't have made a better looking Kingdom Hearts 3 trailer..

I never said Final Fantasy 15 isn't doable on the Wii U.  I said it wasn't worth the headache.  Especially trying to cram 5 gigs of ram data into 1.

the bolded part shows how limited your way of thinking is, that is not how things work (and theoretical optimized work on wii u has more RAM bandwidth than ps4, thanks to edRAM). basically, a wii u version of whatever runs on ps4 would get 720p with stable framerate and a few downgrades here and there. It's a huge exaggeration when anyone describes porting games to wii u as an herculean job.

1.  We don't exactly know what the edram's bandwidth is, but it's very possible (And most likely) that it's slower than the PS4s ram.

2. The system ram in the Wii U is actually slower than the PS3/360s ram.  This is part of the reason why those 360/ps3 multiplats have been running worse and are a mixed bag when it comes to graphics (Looking worse and better).

3.  You have no idea what needs to be done to art assets to fit a certain ram requirements.  You either change all the textures at once, and have a very ugly game that you won't buy, since you know, the devs didn't try.  Or they go through all their assets and judge whether the asset should be degraded or not, which is a very time consuming processes, thus, not worth the porting costs. This is even assuming the Wii U was as powerful as the PS4.  That's not the case so now you have other issues to contend with.  Do you reduce the polygon counts in the scene by half to keep the framerate playable?  This then requires a team of artists to change every model in the game (Including landscapes) to make it playable extra time rewriting game code.  What you're asking is roughly 6 months to a year to do for mediocre results which would be shunned anyways.

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
darkknightkryta said:

Shall I point out the obvious flaws in using a screenshot of compressed video footage of a pre alpha build game to judge a cartoon styled game on its graphics?

KH 1.5 and KH 2.5 are more relevant. And the changes in gameplay are what matters.

Irregardless, its completly baseless to assume that SE with develop KH 3 for the Wii U first based on said screenshots.

When it is a fact that PS has the largest KH Fanbase.

I've said it before and I'll say it again but this time in all caps and bold:

THE WII U AND XBOX ONE ARE ON EQUAL FOOTING WHEN IT COMES TO WHETHER OR NOT KH3 SHOULD BE PORTED TO SAID CONSOLE. THE ONLY SIGNIFICANT FACTORS ARE PORTING COSTS AND USERBASE.

Not only does, Xbox One have a porting advantage, but as long as it is expected to get a larger userbase than the Wii U, then its obvious to see why these decisions are being made.

Except you can see perfectly well how the models are near identicle.  Can't hide the square polygons in Sora's outfits.  But that's besides the point; Outlawran was saying Kingdom Hearts 3 looks too good to be running in real time when the truth of the matter is that it barely looks better than a PS2 game at this point.  Though I'm not saying the porting costs to the Xbox One doesn't make more sense than porting to the Wii U; I'm saying what they've shown off is very capable on the Wii U as is vs Final Fantasy 15 which would need a huge overhaul.



darkknightkryta said:
Zero999 said:

the bolded part shows how limited your way of thinking is, that is not how things work (and theoretical optimized work on wii u has more RAM bandwidth than ps4, thanks to edRAM). basically, a wii u version of whatever runs on ps4 would get 720p with stable framerate and a few downgrades here and there. It's a huge exaggeration when anyone describes porting games to wii u as an herculean job.

1.  We don't exactly know what the edram's bandwidth is, but it's very possible (And most likely) that it's slower than the PS4s ram.

2. The system ram in the Wii U is actually slower than the PS3/360s ram.  This is part of the reason why those 360/ps3 multiplats have been running worse and are a mixed bag when it comes to graphics (Looking worse and better).

3.  You have no idea what needs to be done to art assets to fit a certain ram requirements.  You either change all the textures at once, and have a very ugly game that you won't buy, since you know, the devs didn't try.  Or they go through all their assets and judge whether the asset should be degraded or not, which is a very time consuming processes, thus, not worth the porting costs. This is even assuming the Wii U was as powerful as the PS4.  That's not the case so now you have other issues to contend with.  Do you reduce the polygon counts in the scene by half to keep the framerate playable?  This then requires a team of artists to change every model in the game (Including landscapes) to make it playable extra time rewriting game code.  What you're asking is roughly 6 months to a year to do for mediocre results which would be shunned anyways.

Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
darkknightkryta said:

Shall I point out the obvious flaws in using a screenshot of compressed video footage of a pre alpha build game to judge a cartoon styled game on its graphics?

KH 1.5 and KH 2.5 are more relevant. And the changes in gameplay are what matters.

Irregardless, its completly baseless to assume that SE with develop KH 3 for the Wii U first based on said screenshots.

When it is a fact that PS has the largest KH Fanbase.

I've said it before and I'll say it again but this time in all caps and bold:

THE WII U AND XBOX ONE ARE ON EQUAL FOOTING WHEN IT COMES TO WHETHER OR NOT KH3 SHOULD BE PORTED TO SAID CONSOLE. THE ONLY SIGNIFICANT FACTORS ARE PORTING COSTS AND USERBASE.

Not only does, Xbox One have a porting advantage, but as long as it is expected to get a larger userbase than the Wii U, then its obvious to see why these decisions are being made.

Except you can see perfectly well how the models are near identicle.  Can't hide the square polygons in Sora's outfits.  But that's besides the point; Outlawran was saying Kingdom Hearts 3 looks too good to be running in real time when the truth of the matter is that it barely looks better than a PS2 game at this point.  Though I'm not saying the porting costs to the Xbox One doesn't make more sense than porting to the Wii U; I'm saying what they've shown off is very capable on the Wii U as is vs Final Fantasy 15 which would need a huge overhaul.

ps360 ports didn't ran that well because of diffecence in architetures, wii u is more gpu focused and the gpu is supposed to do some stuff the cpu usually did.

But the final point is always the same, it's not as simple as 5gb of ram vs 1gb, the true difference is much smaller than that. and the wii u runs any effect that is capable on other systems, it's only a matter of companies doing what they always do and port the game. it wouldn't take any "huge overhaul" to run FF15 (wich wasn't even that amazing on the non cgi footage).



Maybe, but can the Wii U run the games is the real question.