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Forums - Sales Discussion - Predict: When will PS4 overtake WiiU? UPDATE: Overtaken February 22nd!

 

When will PS4 overtake WiiU?

Q1 2014 394 52.46%
 
Q2 2014 152 20.24%
 
Q3 2014 50 6.66%
 
October 2014 6 0.80%
 
November 2014 6 0.80%
 
December 2014 13 1.73%
 
2015 27 3.60%
 
2016 6 0.80%
 
2017 or Later 3 0.40%
 
Never 94 12.52%
 
Total:751
superhippy420 said:
1st Party Software Sales

360 - 144m.
Wii - 363 m.

Take out Wii Sports / Kinect Adventures

360 - 123 m.
Wii - 281 m.

Like I said in terms of 1st Party software Nintendo crushed their competitors. If it was'nt for COD,GTA, and FIFA the 360 and PS3 might not have even sold half as many consoles as they did. I'm not saying thats a bad thing really because a healthy video game market is good for all companys but the only company that is actually creating its own success is Nintendo. There is alot of truth to saying "Nintendo is all 1st Party / Sony,Microsoft are all 3rd Party" because thats pretty much how it is now.

Now do Gamecube vs Xbox.



 

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Wii U is just over 5m. PS4 is at 4m and currently sold out meaning they haven't met initial demand yet.

Wii U has not stated SSB4 or MK8 are launching in Q1 yet.

Thus, I'd have to say PS4's momentum will carry it past Wii U before Q1 ends as I don't expect Wii U to carry very significant numbers not what xmas has past.



superhippy420 said:
Mummelmann said:
superhippy420 said:
reggin_bolas said:
I have a question, if Nintendo lowered the cost of the Wii U to 1 dollar and it inevitably sold over 100 million copies. Would Nintendo technically win this gen (assuming it sold more than the competition)?

It seems like the only way to move those units is to heavily discount them like what happened in Belgium where they sold for 99 eu.


I did a little research and found that when that sale happened it was the day in Belgium equal to Black Friday in the US.  Each store got 30 consoles and they sold them all as fast as Target sells their $200 50 inch TV's.  It was still a huge drop though, but lucky for anyone who actually got one at that price.    As for your 1st statement, thats exactly why comparing console sales is pretty pointless.    The Wii sold 100 m. / 360 sold 80 m. / PS3 sold 80m.  Those numbers would make it seem like the race was pretty close, but if you look at software Nintendo absolutely destroyed the other 2 last gen.   The same goes for SNES v. Genesis.  The console sales were pretty even but in terms of software Nintendo and Sega were'nt even onthe same playing field.


It was a a close race, the 360 and PS3 are still moving and will both probably reach about 90 million or slightly more. As for software; saying that "Nintendo absolutely destroyed the other 2 last gen" is a gross exaggeration; Nintendo have moved about 865 million pieces of software, with over 340-350 million of it being 1st party, while the 360 has moved only about 34 million less software and the PS3 about 110 million less. If you extrapolate the user base to match the Wii, the 360 would have sold about 1.08 billion pieces of software and the PS3 over 940 million. And; again, the other two are still moving and their selling a whole lot more software so this ratio will be even more in their favor when is said and done.

In profits, there's no comparison to show anything besides a very clear victory for Nintendo but as far as sheer sales go in hardware and software; this really was a close race and it's still going.

"As for your 1st statement, thats exactly why comparing console sales is pretty pointless."

Then why spend any time on a console sales site to begin with?

Honestly I do think comparing hardware sales is pretty pointless, but only because these companys dont even make money on the hardware, maybe years later if they are lucky.   Sony could sell 100 million PS4's in the next year but if they don't sell any games then did it really matter.  PS2 sold the most consoles by far and Sony sold the most software by far too.  Last gen was just really weird since 3rd Party games were the ones to carry the 360/PS3 through most of the generation, which is why they have had really similar sales numbers.  PS4 is killing Xbone right now because of the price.  Both play COD/FIFA, so most people will just get the cheaper one.


Bolded: Not entirely in disagreement, I really don't have much interest on a personal level any more, it's more the study of the market that appeals to me. And the forums, of course.

Italic: Then again, the PS2 was pretty much carried on 3rd parties as well, as was the PS1. Nintendo are the only modern console manufacturer that relies so heavily upon 1st parties to move hardware. The fact that about 40% of their entire software total on the Wii was/is 1st party is what strikes me as weird, it's a dangerous game and they better hope that their attach rates keep staying right where they are or even go up.



veritaz said:
superhippy420 said:
veritaz said:
superhippy420 said:
reggin_bolas said:
I have a question, if Nintendo lowered the cost of the Wii U to 1 dollar and it inevitably sold over 100 million copies. Would Nintendo technically win this gen (assuming it sold more than the competition)?

It seems like the only way to move those units is to heavily discount them like what happened in Belgium where they sold for 99 eu.


I did a little research and found that when that sale happened it was the day in Belgium equal to Black Friday in the US.  Each store got 30 consoles and they sold them all as fast as Target sells their $200 50 inch TV's.  It was still a huge drop though, but lucky for anyone who actually got one at that price.    As for your 1st statement, thats exactly why comparing console sales is pretty pointless.    The Wii sold 100 m. / 360 sold 80 m. / PS3 sold 80m.  Those numbers would make it seem like the race was pretty close, but if you look at software Nintendo absolutely destroyed the other 2 last gen.   The same goes for SNES v. Genesis.  The console sales were pretty even but in terms of software Nintendo and Sega were'nt even onthe same playing field.


Am I missing something? It didn't sell that much more in software and it only gets smaller. The only reason it got that high was because of those huge sales from wii sports that like 90% was bundled with the console.


You can even take out 100m. games and say every console came with a game and Nintendos 1st party games still outsold 360's by 100m, and thats if I pretend that the 360 has had no pack in games over the years.

You just said at software, not first party in general. Yes it sold a lot of first party games but PS3 still had a ton of good first party and exclusive games in general compared to the WIi.

My bad, I did mean 1st party software.  And the PS3 did have alot of good 1st party games in terms of the games themselves but in terms of sales they had a ton of flops.    Resistance 3, MAG, Motorstorm Pacific Rift,Socom,Hot Shots Golf,R&C All for One,Modnation Racers, All the MLB Games, Playstation Battle Royale, Twisted Metal, and Little Big Planet Karting all failed to crack 1.5 million.  The only games to get over 4 million for Sony were Resistance 1, God of War 3, The Uncharteds,LBP1 and GT5.     I actually want Sony to start doing better 1st party software wise because this is exactly why Sega really went out of business.   The Genesis sold 30 million consoles but only 6 1st party games cracked 1 million while the SNES sold only 19 million more consoles but Nintendo had 20 games sell atleast 1 million, not to mention they had 10 sell atleast 3 million.  Sony + Nintendo should always be the core of gaming.



Mummelmann said:
superhippy420 said:
Mummelmann said:
superhippy420 said:
reggin_bolas said:
I have a question, if Nintendo lowered the cost of the Wii U to 1 dollar and it inevitably sold over 100 million copies. Would Nintendo technically win this gen (assuming it sold more than the competition)?

It seems like the only way to move those units is to heavily discount them like what happened in Belgium where they sold for 99 eu.


I did a little research and found that when that sale happened it was the day in Belgium equal to Black Friday in the US.  Each store got 30 consoles and they sold them all as fast as Target sells their $200 50 inch TV's.  It was still a huge drop though, but lucky for anyone who actually got one at that price.    As for your 1st statement, thats exactly why comparing console sales is pretty pointless.    The Wii sold 100 m. / 360 sold 80 m. / PS3 sold 80m.  Those numbers would make it seem like the race was pretty close, but if you look at software Nintendo absolutely destroyed the other 2 last gen.   The same goes for SNES v. Genesis.  The console sales were pretty even but in terms of software Nintendo and Sega were'nt even onthe same playing field.


It was a a close race, the 360 and PS3 are still moving and will both probably reach about 90 million or slightly more. As for software; saying that "Nintendo absolutely destroyed the other 2 last gen" is a gross exaggeration; Nintendo have moved about 865 million pieces of software, with over 340-350 million of it being 1st party, while the 360 has moved only about 34 million less software and the PS3 about 110 million less. If you extrapolate the user base to match the Wii, the 360 would have sold about 1.08 billion pieces of software and the PS3 over 940 million. And; again, the other two are still moving and their selling a whole lot more software so this ratio will be even more in their favor when is said and done.

In profits, there's no comparison to show anything besides a very clear victory for Nintendo but as far as sheer sales go in hardware and software; this really was a close race and it's still going.

"As for your 1st statement, thats exactly why comparing console sales is pretty pointless."

Then why spend any time on a console sales site to begin with?

Honestly I do think comparing hardware sales is pretty pointless, but only because these companys dont even make money on the hardware, maybe years later if they are lucky.   Sony could sell 100 million PS4's in the next year but if they don't sell any games then did it really matter.  PS2 sold the most consoles by far and Sony sold the most software by far too.  Last gen was just really weird since 3rd Party games were the ones to carry the 360/PS3 through most of the generation, which is why they have had really similar sales numbers.  PS4 is killing Xbone right now because of the price.  Both play COD/FIFA, so most people will just get the cheaper one.


Bolded: Not entirely in disagreement, I really don't have much interest on a personal level any more, it's more the study of the market that appeals to me. And the forums, of course.

Italic: Then again, the PS2 was pretty much carried on 3rd parties as well, as was the PS1. Nintendo are the only modern console manufacturer that relies so heavily upon 1st parties to move hardware. The fact that about 40% of their entire software total on the Wii was/is 1st party is what strikes me as weird, it's a dangerous game and they better hope that their attach rates keep satying right where they are or even go up.

The key for Nintendo though and has been forever is that all of that 1st Party software is money that comes right back to them.  I'm not really sure how much Sony/Microsoft gets from 3rd Party developers in terms of a cut but the Gamecube pretty much proved that Nintendo can completly flop in terms of hardware but since all the top games are theirs, they will still turn a profit.  I cant really say the same for Sony.    The Vita is pretty much dead because no one wanted Sonys software and there was no GTA to carry the console for them.   I think its much more dangerous to rely on other companies to carry your console then to be able to develop all of your own games.



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superhippy420 said:

The key for Nintendo though and has been forever is that all of that 1st Party software is money that comes right back to them.  I'm not really sure how much Sony/Microsoft gets from 3rd Party developers in terms of a cut but the Gamecube pretty much proved that Nintendo can completly flop in terms of hardware but since all the top games are theirs, they will still turn a profit.  I cant really say the same for Sony.    The Vita is pretty much dead because no one wanted Sonys software and there was no GTA to carry the console for them.   I think its much more dangerous to rely on other companies to carry your console then to be able to develop all of your own games.


Are you sperating GC from handhelds ? Nin was profitable but how much of it was due to gameboy.



superhippy420 said:
veritaz said:
superhippy420 said:
veritaz said:
superhippy420 said:
reggin_bolas said:
I have a question, if Nintendo lowered the cost of the Wii U to 1 dollar and it inevitably sold over 100 million copies. Would Nintendo technically win this gen (assuming it sold more than the competition)?

It seems like the only way to move those units is to heavily discount them like what happened in Belgium where they sold for 99 eu.


I did a little research and found that when that sale happened it was the day in Belgium equal to Black Friday in the US.  Each store got 30 consoles and they sold them all as fast as Target sells their $200 50 inch TV's.  It was still a huge drop though, but lucky for anyone who actually got one at that price.    As for your 1st statement, thats exactly why comparing console sales is pretty pointless.    The Wii sold 100 m. / 360 sold 80 m. / PS3 sold 80m.  Those numbers would make it seem like the race was pretty close, but if you look at software Nintendo absolutely destroyed the other 2 last gen.   The same goes for SNES v. Genesis.  The console sales were pretty even but in terms of software Nintendo and Sega were'nt even onthe same playing field.


Am I missing something? It didn't sell that much more in software and it only gets smaller. The only reason it got that high was because of those huge sales from wii sports that like 90% was bundled with the console.


You can even take out 100m. games and say every console came with a game and Nintendos 1st party games still outsold 360's by 100m, and thats if I pretend that the 360 has had no pack in games over the years.

You just said at software, not first party in general. Yes it sold a lot of first party games but PS3 still had a ton of good first party and exclusive games in general compared to the WIi.

My bad, I did mean 1st party software.  And the PS3 did have alot of good 1st party games in terms of the games themselves but in terms of sales they had a ton of flops.    Resistance 3, MAG, Motorstorm Pacific Rift,Socom,Hot Shots Golf,R&C All for One,Modnation Racers, All the MLB Games, Playstation Battle Royale, Twisted Metal, and Little Big Planet Karting all failed to crack 1.5 million.  The only games to get over 4 million for Sony were Resistance 1, God of War 3, The Uncharteds,LBP1 and GT5.     I actually want Sony to start doing better 1st party software wise because this is exactly why Sega really went out of business.   The Genesis sold 30 million consoles but only 6 1st party games cracked 1 million while the SNES sold only 19 million more consoles but Nintendo had 20 games sell atleast 1 million, not to mention they had 10 sell atleast 3 million.  Sony + Nintendo should always be the core of gaming.

Yeah, they made great games but most of them didn't get the sales they deserve. Looks like The Last of Us is easily gonna pass 4 million though. Probably already has if vgchartz has it undertracked like God of War 3. Edit: I think you are also forgetting that even if a game doesn't sell a ton it doesn't mean the game isn't profitable for them. The MLB games for example, they don't sell a crap ton but they still make em constantly so they obviously make them money. Heavy Rain isn't first party but it still made a ton of profits for them.



Marchish maybe.

PS4 sales are going to drop more slowly than Wii U sales, but supply constraints, particularly as Sony prepares to launch in another region, may keep PS4 from making up too much ground. PS4 may be able to gain something like 500K during January depending on supply, Nintendo's marketing, and whether or not they decide to advertise stuff like Wii Fit or (better yet) make a bundle for it. So I guess it'll be about a 700K difference by then.

February is Japan's launch. It will probably do about 700K there, but the question is how this will effect supply in other regions. On the Wii U side of things, DKCR will push some units but won't be a system seller. Wii U should still be doing well in Japan, and the Wii U might have a big supply advantage in the States, plus the Wii U will have DK plus maybe some lingering Wii Fit U sales if Nintendo decides marketing is a good idea. PS4 will have few major titles (Drive Club?) and launch buzz will be dying down. EU is obviously an auto win for Sony unless Nintendo pulls off some magic. So, another 3-400K chipped away maybe, leaving Nintendo with a 300K or so lead.

What happens in March will determine if and when PS4 will pass the Wii U. If Nintendo can get MK8 out by then it can slow the progress significantly. Honestly, the demo seemed basically complete with the exception of different tracks and battle modes, so I think MK8 could be out on March 21st. Sony has Infamous and Ground Zeroes, but Titanfall may help the XBone and hurt the PS4. Infamous will be, at best, as big as DK. With Mario Kart, Nintendo can at slow the rate of PS4 progress to about 200K and might be able to actually gain as much as 100K.

After that, it's anyone's guess. We don't really know what either company has planned. It's safe to say Nintendo will have more titles as launch years do tend to be slow. Smash Bros in Q2 would be huge for Nintendo, and can keep them ahead through E3, but I would guess Smash will be August at the earliest. A Wii Sports physical release seems likely, and Bayonetta seems ripe for a may release where its competition won't be too fierce.

Of course, Nintendo's announced games will, at best, keep Nintendo treading water. If the currently announced games are all that there are, Nintendo will be overcome by September, and that's an incredibly optimistic prediction. Nintendo simply needs to find their next casual hit, and if they can't do that, the Wii U will be a niche console for Nintendo fans.



Q2 2014 sometime in early April.



First week of March 2014.