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Forums - Microsoft - So, how have you been enjoying The Power of the Cloud ?

deskpro2k3 on 03 January 2014
selnor1983 said:
Dark_Feanor said:
It´s not that easy to develop a distributed program, service or app.

It will take time.

People that are proficient with that are in the MMO market. But it´s sure those people will bring their expertise to games with larger scope like: The Elders Scrolls, Fallout, Crackdown, GTA, Dead Rising, Horde Mode...

Expect it when people are enjoying Gaikai on PS4, by the way.

Gaikai isnt remotely the same thing.

Gaikai is for storage. Or for example going to be used for downloading PS3 games for PS4.

Gaikai isnt the same as what Microsoft have built for Cloud Processing. Microsoft dont use the 3 servers allocated for Xbox One for Xbox Live service. They are purely for Cloud Processing.


Sony has filed a patent called "Suspending State of Cloud-based Legacy Applications," which allows one to add new content into an emulated game without having to rework the game's code.

The patent's abstract provides a detailed summary as to exactly what this might mean for the future of Sony's cloud-based platform. Warning: it is a bit of a mouthful.

A snapshot of an emulated game may be generated by a snapshot generator. At some point during the emulation of the emulated game, a snapshot generator delivers a suspension request to an emulator. Once the suspension request is received, the emulator will suspend the emulated title. The emulator generates a snapshot of the emulated game by recording the current state of all devices being emulated. The snapshot is then delivered to the snapshot generator. It is emphasized that this abstract is provided to comply with the rules requiring an abstract that will allow a searcher or other reader to quickly ascertain the subject matter of the technical disclosure. It is submitted with the understanding that it will not be used to interpret or limit the scope or meaning of the claims.

So what does this mean? Well for one, this could allow Sony to rework some of its older titles and deliver fresh, slightly tweaked experiences of its legacy library via Gaikai. That said, companies file patents all the time, many of which are never fully realized. As such, we'll just have to wait and see if this materializes into anything at all.

[Via NeoGAF]

 

 

TLDR:

Basically, this patents tech from Sony will add new content to emulated PlayStation games. The question is, will Gaikai use it? I think yes.



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ethomaz on 03 January 2014

Ryuu96 said:

Well Dead Rising is only 2 player Co-Op so doesn't really need Dedicated Servers, EA Owns their own and most games out are EA right now, Halo will use Dedicated servers, Peggle doesn't need dedicated, Cod uses it's own, Sunset Overdrive will be using the cloud and I assume dedicated servers along with Fable Legends

Found this also..... As for Killer Instinct, they use something called GGPO, which uses an input delay setup. Input delay (as seen in all the Halo campaigns) keeps things way more in sync, since the host/server will only send the next frame's data after the data for every player had been collected and simulated.

Using Dedicated for DR3 and Killer Instinct would be a waste of resources, there only two player online games and hardly need them, Ryse is also only two player co-op so again it would be a waste, I've played Ryse online aswell and not had lag once so again it doesn't need them Lol

Dedicated servers will only be used mainly on first party Ip games that are more than 2 player co-op, But again it's up to the developers, I'm guessing Crytek, Double Helix, Capcom know that it would be a waste to use dedicated on them, EA & Acitivion don't need free dedicated off Microsoft if they have there own

MS told me "dedicated servers for all multiplayer games"

PS. Everybody know that won't happen at all.



J_Allard on 03 January 2014
michael_stutzer said:

It will be used much more heavily when developers need processing power to maintain 720p resolution. The hardware can maintain 720p resolution with 20-30 fps (more than enough at the moment, nobody would notice it) framerate at the moment but in a few years they will feel the need to decrease the resolution. That is where the cloud processing enters the scene.

Yikes, does this mean in a few years PS4 games will be stuck in 720p? Oh noes, what will the PS4 brigade here do? Maybe this is why Sony got Gaikai.



selnor1983 on 03 January 2014
michael_stutzer said:

It will be used much more heavily when developers need processing power to maintain 720p resolution. The hardware can maintain 720p resolution with 20-30 fps (more than enough at the moment, nobody would notice it) framerate at the moment but in a few years they will feel the need to decrease the resolution. That is where the cloud processing enters the scene.

This is such a BS statement. Resolution problems as DEVELOPERS have already stated many times, were mainly due to very poor SDK tools on Xbox One comapred to PS4. Microsoft were behind in supplying the tools to developers. 2014 will bring an eveidence of graphically amazing games on Xbox One running 1080p no problem. Halo5 will be, Quantum Break will be among other first party graphical beast games.

Processing on the cloud in 5 years time will hopefully give way more headroom than just some extra frames. By the end of the generation I expect Xbox One first party games to look significantly better due to Cloud Processing evolving with better connections and less lag.



FrancisNobleman on 03 January 2014
selnor1983 said:
Bajablo said:
selnor1983 said:

Unlike any other system, the ability to have every single game brought out use Cloud processing for things like Drivatar AI, Physics calculations, AI battles, Fixed lighting etc.


... you realy think they are going to be so stupid to do real-time calculations in the cloud?.. you must have belived in all that marketing right?
Never gonna happen, think what would happen to your game if you had lag etc. even in a singleplayer situation.. no-one would code that stupid. AI, sure.. that works, if you have connection -> calculate. other -> use X behaviour that is hard-coded


Its being done already. 3 games releasing this year are using fixed lighting solutions in the cloud as well as physics calculations that are not directly affecting the player input controls. Titanfall does quite a few realtime calculations on the cloud. As its an online only game anyay it will benefit greatly.


What will happen to those who barely have a steady enough connection to play multiplayer ? Will the game glitch, or just tell the person the internet is not fast enough to calculate AI battles, therefore you can't play the game ? Or maybe the game will just work normally, like it will on PC and X360 ?

 

I think you should lookt at the later, and Cloud will be used for saves and avatar ghosts, etc.



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Bajablo on 03 January 2014
selnor1983 said:
Bajablo said:
selnor1983 said:

Unlike any other system, the ability to have every single game brought out use Cloud processing for things like Drivatar AI, Physics calculations, AI battles, Fixed lighting etc.


... you realy think they are going to be so stupid to do real-time calculations in the cloud?.. you must have belived in all that marketing right?
Never gonna happen, think what would happen to your game if you had lag etc. even in a singleplayer situation.. no-one would code that stupid. AI, sure.. that works, if you have connection -> calculate. other -> use X behaviour that is hard-coded


Titanfall does quite a few realtime calculations on the cloud. As its an online only game anyay it will benefit greatly.
Titanfall is running its MAP physics in the cloud, IE structures that are linked to the map layout. Thats becouse the whole map data is on the server-end.
The content on the map can move and the servers do that workload for you, thats what marketing people call 'cloud processing'.
The console gets info on what to render and where it is from the server, the same way you send data on what you did and where you think you are on the map, you get responses on where you actually are on the map according to the server
(rubberbanding is when it dosn't match up and you 'put' yourself where the server tells you are standing)

The physics for players and particles are handled by the console itself, and all the rendering of the enviroment. Under no circumstance is the cloud able to do these things, without the problem with latency & player sync, would be catastrophic for a game.


But why cant a company build something for people like e who CAN take and make use of Cloud Processing for things in todays climate?
IT HAS EXISTED FOR FRIGGIN' FOREVER, IT IS CALLED A SERVER (a cloud is a group of servers acting as 1 towards the end-user)

The processing I mentioned will not effect gameplay. They are currently processing things that Fixed ( not dynamic ) etc. It still frees up resources of the Xbox One hardware. But by 2017 Cloud Processing will take a big leap imo. And thats when Xbox One will shine mightily.
The thing you can do with it is make dynamic maps, that much i can give you.
BF4 is a good example of that, that is 'cloud processing' but they dont bother to use that word becouse they know what it friggin' means to start with.
Those things you can do, but it won't magicly transform your console into something it isn't.

/rant...
God i hate the use of 'cloud computing', atleast in gaming.. since alot of people don't have any idea what it is and listen to marketing bull
But yeah, the same things exist in Enterprise computing situations, some CEO heard some marketing friend talk about 'cloud' and got sold
'we want this becouse he said so and it sounded cool', knowing nothing about what the hell it realy is.

yeah, i'm a bitter IT consultant.. sue me.. ;)



3DS FC# 4553-9947-9017 NNID: Bajablo

Torn-City - MMO text based RPG, join me! :)

Bajablo on 03 January 2014
ethomaz said:

Ryuu96 said:

Well Dead Rising is only 2 player Co-Op so doesn't really need Dedicated Servers, EA Owns their own and most games out are EA right now, Halo will use Dedicated servers, Peggle doesn't need dedicated, Cod uses it's own, Sunset Overdrive will be using the cloud and I assume dedicated servers along with Fable Legends

Found this also..... As for Killer Instinct, they use something called GGPO, which uses an input delay setup. Input delay (as seen in all the Halo campaigns) keeps things way more in sync, since the host/server will only send the next frame's data after the data for every player had been collected and simulated.

Using Dedicated for DR3 and Killer Instinct would be a waste of resources, there only two player online games and hardly need them, Ryse is also only two player co-op so again it would be a waste, I've played Ryse online aswell and not had lag once so again it doesn't need them Lol

Dedicated servers will only be used mainly on first party Ip games that are more than 2 player co-op, But again it's up to the developers, I'm guessing Crytek, Double Helix, Capcom know that it would be a waste to use dedicated on them, EA & Acitivion don't need free dedicated off Microsoft if they have there own

MS told me "dedicated servers for all multiplayer games"

PS. Everybody know that won't happen at all.

PS. some persons arn't that smart so they realize that it is bullshit...
as the 'i will have 3 cloud servers dedicated to my console' what a joke..

Damn i'm bitter today.. think i need some beer



3DS FC# 4553-9947-9017 NNID: Bajablo

Torn-City - MMO text based RPG, join me! :)

ethomaz on 03 January 2014

selnor1983 said:

This is such a BS statement. Resolution problems as DEVELOPERS have already stated many times, were mainly due to very poor SDK tools on Xbox One comapred to PS4. Microsoft were behind in supplying the tools to developers. 2014 will bring an eveidence of graphically amazing games on Xbox One running 1080p no problem. Halo5 will be, Quantum Break will be among other first party graphical beast games.

Processing on the cloud in 5 years time will hopefully give way more headroom than just some extra frames. By the end of the generation I expect Xbox One first party games to look significantly better due to Cloud Processing evolving with better connections and less lag.

The same GPU found in Xbone clocked at +1000Mhz.

"The R7-260 is a fun, almost entry-level product that is going to allow you to game at 1280x720 to say 1600x1200. If you stick to these resolutions then you may apply good image quality settings. At an MSRP of 79 EURO + VAT (or $109 USD) however it is a fair deal. You'll be looking at perf in-between say a Radeon HD 7770 and Radeon HD 7790. It also would be a really excellent HTPC card quite honestly. The small PCB footprint and cooler would even allow Mini-ITX setups. Then again at 75 Degrees C it does run a bit hot for such a setup. Overall though, a fun little card but don't expect to game properly at 1080P."

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/radeon_r7_260_review_benchmarks,14.html

Blame SDK, Developers, etc... and not the weak hardware lol.



selnor1983 on 03 January 2014
deskpro2k3 said:
selnor1983 said:
Dark_Feanor said:
It´s not that easy to develop a distributed program, service or app.

It will take time.

People that are proficient with that are in the MMO market. But it´s sure those people will bring their expertise to games with larger scope like: The Elders Scrolls, Fallout, Crackdown, GTA, Dead Rising, Horde Mode...

Expect it when people are enjoying Gaikai on PS4, by the way.

Gaikai isnt remotely the same thing.

Gaikai is for storage. Or for example going to be used for downloading PS3 games for PS4.

Gaikai isnt the same as what Microsoft have built for Cloud Processing. Microsoft dont use the 3 servers allocated for Xbox One for Xbox Live service. They are purely for Cloud Processing.


Sony has filed a patent called "Suspending State of Cloud-based Legacy Applications," which allows one to add new content into an emulated game without having to rework the game's code.

The patent's abstract provides a detailed summary as to exactly what this might mean for the future of Sony's cloud-based platform. Warning: it is a bit of a mouthful.

A snapshot of an emulated game may be generated by a snapshot generator. At some point during the emulation of the emulated game, a snapshot generator delivers a suspension request to an emulator. Once the suspension request is received, the emulator will suspend the emulated title. The emulator generates a snapshot of the emulated game by recording the current state of all devices being emulated. The snapshot is then delivered to the snapshot generator. It is emphasized that this abstract is provided to comply with the rules requiring an abstract that will allow a searcher or other reader to quickly ascertain the subject matter of the technical disclosure. It is submitted with the understanding that it will not be used to interpret or limit the scope or meaning of the claims.

So what does this mean? Well for one, this could allow Sony to rework some of its older titles and deliver fresh, slightly tweaked experiences of its legacy library via Gaikai. That said, companies file patents all the time, many of which are never fully realized. As such, we'll just have to wait and see if this materializes into anything at all.

[Via NeoGAF]

 

 

TLDR:

Basically, this patents tech from Sony will add new content to emulated PlayStation games. The question is, will Gaikai use it? I think yes.

So not Cloud Processing then. This is much more like Ouya. Streaming the game to PS4. So PS4 is not processing anything at all. Streaming it as a video file. This is exactly what Gaikai is. A steaming service. Its not a processing server.



daredevil.shark on 03 January 2014

Everyone is talking about things that doesnt exist now. Even if it does its minimal. I will see when its implemented. Till then how much we talk about cloud or other stuff are meaningless. Because seeing is believing.