By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Would Christianity be as successful without the Heaven reward?

IIIIITHE1IIIII on 22 December 2013
mysticwolf said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:


In other words, loving your enemy and offering shelter for the poor would not be preferable if it was not for the eternal reward, and the word of God isn't good enough on its own?

 

Sounds like God applies to your greed more than anything, if Heaven has such a big role in Christianity's spreading.

I think one of the reasons Christianity is so appealing is because it gives people this incentive; Heaven. You know, what's in it for me if I believe in this Jesus guy? Oh, I get eternal life in Heaven, well that sounds pretty good. It appeals to our selfish nature. 

Heaven wasn't meant to be used as a means to control people, but that's what it's come to. 

I'm saying if there wasn't Heaven it wouldn't be the same religion, I do not think it would be as appealing in general. In a sense, Heaven can be used as an incentive for morality. If you do or do not do things because you are afraid of going to Hell, that is the wrong reason. 

Let's be clear that I did not say that my religion is dependent upon me going to Heaven. I was merely answering the original question. But I think Christians would behave differently if they did not think Heaven existed. The idea of Heaven appeals to our greedy feelings. Having this list of criteria you must meet in order to go into Heaven seems to me misleading and wrong, because it can make people's moral actions derived from fear of going to Hell, which is the wrong reason to behave morally. Doing the right thing in order to get into Heaven is also the wrong reason for doing the right thing. What we should be doing is the right thing regardless of whether or not Heaven exists, but I fear that the majority of people do not do that.


Great post.

As I see it, all true Christians should not care for the reward that is heaven. True Christians should follow God's word regardless if there is a reward waiting for them, knowing that what they are doing is the right thing.

However, again, as I see it, a true God should also be aware of this and not make the reward available in the first place. If applying to people's greed is necessary for the religion to spread, and for God's Word to be followed and taken seriously, then his Word is, in fact, not appealing.

 

God should not need to bribe humanity in order for Christianity to spread and become appealing, being my point.



Around the Network
HigHurtenflurst on 22 December 2013

I'm sure the idea behind heaven and hell are a motivator to many in sticking with the doctrine and practicing the religion. People fear what they can't understand, and death is one of the biggest mysteries in terms of what happens to your conciousness. So no it (and other religions) would not be as successful without the carrot and the stick, in particular I think there would not be much conversion (forced or not).

Ignoring most of religion and focsing on theism though, I don't think it makes a differnce to those with a true faith in God/Gods... As someone else mentioned the basis of religion is to find an answer (to the question of life, the universe, and everything) or at least question the origins and future of life.



NobleTeam360 on 22 December 2013
Screamapillar said:
You can't have Christianity without heaven. It's not a possibility. The question itself is an impossibility, so there's no reason to ask it, because it can't be answered.

I agree, if there is no heaven then there is no God and if there is no God Christianity wouldn't exist, either that or if Christianity did exist it would be completely different than what we know today. 



IIIIITHE1IIIII on 22 December 2013
NobleTeam360 said:
Screamapillar said:
You can't have Christianity without heaven. It's not a possibility. The question itself is an impossibility, so there's no reason to ask it, because it can't be answered.

I agree, if there is no heaven then there is no God and if there is no God Christianity wouldn't exist, either that or if Christianity did exist it would be completely different than what we know today. 


It seems to me like both of you are trying to avoid the question. If this question is an impossibility, then so is asking what would have happened if Obama wasn't re-elected.

In any case, I'd be interested to hear your (well, and the others' who didn't respond) answers to my second question. If you'd care to share it.



NobleTeam360 on 22 December 2013
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Screamapillar said:
You can't have Christianity without heaven. It's not a possibility. The question itself is an impossibility, so there's no reason to ask it, because it can't be answered.

I agree, if there is no heaven then there is no God and if there is no God Christianity wouldn't exist, either that or if Christianity did exist it would be completely different than what we know today. 


It seems to me like both of you are trying to avoid the question. If this question is an impossibility, then so is asking what would have happened if Obama wasn't re-elected.

In any case, I'd be interested to hear your (well, and the others' who didn't respond) answers to my second question. If you'd care to share it.

I'd like to believe that I would still be a Christian regardless of a reward or punishment for my belief. Having something to believe in is much more satisfying than having nothing to believe in. 



Around the Network
Dark_Lord_2008 on 22 December 2013

Religions are man made belief systems that have been created to manipulate and control people. There is no such thing as God or Heaven. It is insane that countless wars have been fought defending illogical religious belief systems. When we die, we simply no longer exist.



IIIIITHE1IIIII on 22 December 2013
Dark_Lord_2008 said:
Religions are man made belief systems that have been created to manipulate and control people. There is no such thing as God or Heaven. It is insane that countless wars have been fought defending illogical religious belief systems. When we die, we simply no longer exist.


Well, this is purely off-topic.



NobleTeam360 on 22 December 2013
Dark_Lord_2008 said:
Religions are man made belief systems that have been created to manipulate and control people. There is no such thing as God or Heaven. It is insane that countless wars have been fought defending illogical religious belief systems. When we die, we simply no longer exist.

How do you know that we no longer exist when we die? 



sundin13 on 22 December 2013
DamnTastic said:
Let's turn this around.
Would it be as successful if there was no punishment of eternal damnation in hell?
More care for the punishment than for the reward


I think this is a much more important question. My religion doesn't believe in the idea of hell and I think hell is a backwards system that goes against what the bible teaches and what it asks of its believers. This doesn't weaken the religion as much as it sorts out the people who believe for the wrong reasons.



Slimebeast on 23 December 2013

Of course not.

The reward with eternal life in heaven is fundamental for the human who hates death and thirsts for eternal life.

The Apostle Paul acknowledges this in Korinthians 15:17-19:

"And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is mere delusion, and you are still in your sins. And further, those who have died in Christ have perished! If we who are in Christ have hope only in this life and that is all, then we are of all people most miserable and to be pitied."