By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Would Christianity be as successful without the Heaven reward?

Yes, I know I and many others would still be Christian regardless of the reward.  Christianity has wonderful guidelines to live by.  I never understood the hostility towards a peaceful religion.  My church and I have donated food, clothing, time and skill to building homes for others around the world in poor countries and other things because that is what Jesus taught.  There is nothing wrong with following His teachings, the world would be a better place if we all took care of each other more.   Sadly, at least in America, we think we are entitled to things that no other generation expected and only got or didn't by working hard to earn them.  It's all me me me, and people don't want to give up an hour a week in church, or do anything other than things that make them feel good regardless of who they impact.  

I don't expect to get into heaven and that is not my motivator, we do good things because it feels good and that is the right thing to do. 

Also why aren't there ever people questioning Islam on these threads?  Are people just more curious  or familiar with Christianity, or afraid to speak out or question Islam, I never see that here or on other threads on other sites.  Islam is growing while Christanity is shrinking, religion is going nowhere, just what religion most people believe in.  

 

I wish everyone Christian or not a Merry Christmas, I hope we can all spend time with our loved ones and enjoy all that God has given us.  



Around the Network
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
padib said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

A related question, to all Christians this time, would be: Would you still be a Christian even if God didn't offer you a seat in Heaven?

Simple answer, impossible. The reason is that eternal life heaven is exactly part of what being God means, it's part of the plan of salvation and Christ makes no sense otherwise. He would have died in vain.

I can go in greater detail, but a God like that would make no sense to me and I would reject him.


So a God that creates the Universe, makes way for your existence, knows exactly what is right and what is wrong and, potentially, answers your prayers would not be worth applying to unless you get an eternal reward in return?

Honestly, yes. As a christian I would say yes. To seek God and to try walk on the right path would mean lots of valuable time, energy, frustration and even suffering for ultimately nothing when you die at the age of 80.

I wouldn't care much about such a god.

Christianity is all about the afterlife.



Slimebeast said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:


So a God that creates the Universe, makes way for your existence, knows exactly what is right and what is wrong and, potentially, answers your prayers would not be worth applying to unless you get an eternal reward in return?

Honestly, yes. As a christian I would say yes. To seek God and to try walk on the right path would mean lots of valuable time, energy, frustration and even suffering for ultimately nothing when you die at the age of 80.

I wouldn't care much about such a god.

Christianity is all about the afterlife.


Interesting. Personally I wouldn't, for instance, consider helping the less fortunate populations wasted time and energy. Nor would I consider it a waste of time to seek guidance in the Bible if I agreed with its morals.

Also, the butterfly effect should make sure that your current lifestyle has great meaning even beyond your death. Though in a more selfless form.



MegaManX said:

Yes, I know I and many others would still be Christian regardless of the reward.  Christianity has wonderful guidelines to live by.  I never understood the hostility towards a peaceful religion.  My church and I have donated food, clothing, time and skill to building homes for others around the world in poor countries and other things because that is what Jesus taught.  There is nothing wrong with following His teachings, the world would be a better place if we all took care of each other more.   Sadly, at least in America, we think we are entitled to things that no other generation expected and only got or didn't by working hard to earn them.  It's all me me me, and people don't want to give up an hour a week in church, or do anything other than things that make them feel good regardless of who they impact.  

I don't expect to get into heaven and that is not my motivator, we do good things because it feels good and that is the right thing to do. 

Also why aren't there ever people questioning Islam on these threads?  Are people just more curious  or familiar with Christianity, or afraid to speak out or question Islam, I never see that here or on other threads on other sites.  Islam is growing while Christanity is shrinking, religion is going nowhere, just what religion most people believe in.  

 

I wish everyone Christian or not a Merry Christmas, I hope we can all spend time with our loved ones and enjoy all that God has given us.  

Christianity is the world's largest religion, so most people are familiar with it. And if VGC is US-centric, in terms of its userbase, then it's definitely the familiarity with Christianity that causes it to be discussed.

Why is Islam always the go-to? "Stop picking on Christianity! What about the Muslims?", as if that has any relevance or will deter discussion of things people know about. But if you must know, I, personally, questioned Islam in this thread. Just look up a few posts.

btw, the anectdotal "My church is nice. We did this, that, and the other" is not indicative of you having a "peaceful" religion any more so this pastor is indicative that you have a hateful religion (don't try and "not a true Christian" me, either. No True Scotsman). When it comes to religious beliefs, never extrapolate your experience in the bubble of your own church to mean everyone else does that or  that it's the "one true" way.



Any religion would be better without any of the extremist nutters



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

Around the Network

No. The tenets of Christianity cannot be verified - and so without fear of punishment (Hell) and hope of reward (Heaven) there is no motivation to believe or not. Without these grounding beliefs Christianity would be inconsequential and nobody would waste their time caring.



MegaManX said:

Yes, I know I and many others would still be Christian regardless of the reward.  Christianity has wonderful guidelines to live by.  I never understood the hostility towards a peaceful religion.  My church and I have donated food, clothing, time and skill to building homes for others around the world in poor countries and other things because that is what Jesus taught.  There is nothing wrong with following His teachings, the world would be a better place if we all took care of each other more.   Sadly, at least in America, we think we are entitled to things that no other generation expected and only got or didn't by working hard to earn them.  It's all me me me, and people don't want to give up an hour a week in church, or do anything other than things that make them feel good regardless of who they impact.  

I don't expect to get into heaven and that is not my motivator, we do good things because it feels good and that is the right thing to do. 

Also why aren't there ever people questioning Islam on these threads?  Are people just more curious  or familiar with Christianity, or afraid to speak out or question Islam, I never see that here or on other threads on other sites.  Islam is growing while Christanity is shrinking, religion is going nowhere, just what religion most people believe in.  

 

I wish everyone Christian or not a Merry Christmas, I hope we can all spend time with our loved ones and enjoy all that God has given us.  


Oh!  Actually, Christianity is a rapidly growing religion worldwide, just not in the West.  But I forgive you for spreading misinformation (is that the same as lying?) - the problem is that I can't speak for anybody else.

Who cares about Islam?  Nobody takes it that seriously in the West.



I'd like to make your sentence more fair:

Would Christinaty be as successful being the only single religion that doesn't offer any kind of eternity reward ?

The reward of eternity is in fact the standard for religion, from Egypt and Greece to current religions, even sometime in indirect/distinct form (reincarnation in buddhism or hinduism thats leads to nirvana). In fact most of them offer something pretty similar to heaven, call it Valhalla, Jannah, Nirvana.

And as far as I know for most famous religions, all of them offer extreme and infinite punishement for breaking some rules. All of them answer for fears and interrogations about life after death, not just yours, but for your family, friend or love.

And it's not by accident. Because that's not just a trick of one or a few religions, like a convenient way to make people believe in one perticular religion, that's more deeply one of the most important points of a religion, and in fact for a God to be.

It's really beyond imagination to think what should or should not do and think  God, but I still can't imagine Him existing, sharing is existence in the form of a religion and to just let everyone of us rot forgotten after death, including beloved, believing and honnest ones.

So that's pretty clear Christianity would not be successful, but not just because of bad settings in the reward system, but for not making any sense (and be the only one not to).

I don't believe myself nor in God nor in Heaven, but let be fair to say Heaven is not just about success, and not a main reason for Christianity success as other relgion offers just as much or even more on this point.



NobleTeam360 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Screamapillar said:
You can't have Christianity without heaven. It's not a possibility. The question itself is an impossibility, so there's no reason to ask it, because it can't be answered.

I agree, if there is no heaven then there is no God and if there is no God Christianity wouldn't exist, either that or if Christianity did exist it would be completely different than what we know today. 


It seems to me like both of you are trying to avoid the question. If this question is an impossibility, then so is asking what would have happened if Obama wasn't re-elected.

In any case, I'd be interested to hear your (well, and the others' who didn't respond) answers to my second question. If you'd care to share it.

I'd like to believe that I would still be a Christian regardless of a reward or punishment for my belief. Having something to believe in is much more satisfying than having nothing to believe in. 

Just because something satisfies you doesn't make it true. Kids believe in Santa and it makes them happy that he brings them gifts for being good kids every year. But at the end of the day, Santa isn't real.

Also, it's a false dichotomy to say that if you don't believe in God, then you believe in nothing. God =/= everything, so the antithesis to believing in God isn't believing in nothing. You can beileve in peace, humanitarianism, altruism, love, friendship etc. without believing in God. "Belief in nothing" is a lie propogated by the religious to make the irreligious look like they don't care about a thing in the world, which is false. It also doesn't make sense because we, as the human species, don't even truly understand the concept of "nothing"



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Slimebeast said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:


So a God that creates the Universe, makes way for your existence, knows exactly what is right and what is wrong and, potentially, answers your prayers would not be worth applying to unless you get an eternal reward in return?

Honestly, yes. As a christian I would say yes. To seek God and to try walk on the right path would mean lots of valuable time, energy, frustration and even suffering for ultimately nothing when you die at the age of 80.

I wouldn't care much about such a god.

Christianity is all about the afterlife.


Interesting. Personally I wouldn't, for instance, consider helping the less fortunate populations wasted time and energy. Nor would I consider it a waste of time to seek guidance in the Bible if I agreed with its morals.

Also, the butterfly effect should make sure that your current lifestyle has great meaning even beyond your death. Though in a more selfless form.

Relatively speaking helping others can have great meaning, but it has no (or little) inherent and ultimate value as I see it. It's not the end goal. I can't see it as a truly fullfilling purpose in life to work and suffer only for the benefit of the less fortunate. To me that's just a form of slavery. In the same way, in its essense, "guidance from the Bible" has no ultimate value.

I would never be able to motivate it like that - a creator creates a bunch of individiduals only to be born into slaves for their even less fortunate brethren and then they also got guidance from a divine book. Mean

Anyway, Christianity is far more than just helping the poor. I see it as a hope and motivation to be able to struggle though this hard life. Christianity is about the thirs for everlasting life. There's a selfish component to it. Christianity assumes every individual cares about himself at least to the extent that he wants to live forever.

Butterfly effect? lol seriously? The butterfly effect gives your life meaning?