By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - Would Christianity be as successful without the Heaven reward?

Most likely. Christianity took off because of the time period it became "established" in. Not just because of the reward of Heaven, but also because of the other aspects of the religion as well. Like Jesus being a good leader to the people.



Around the Network
NobleTeam360 said:
BMaker11 said:

Just because something satisfies you doesn't make it true. Kids believe in Santa and it makes them happy that he brings them gifts for being good kids every year. But at the end of the day, Santa isn't real.

Also, it's a false dichotomy to say that if you don't believe in God, then you believe in nothing. God =/= everything, so the antithesis to believing in God isn't believing in nothing. You can beileve in peace, humanitarianism, altruism, love, friendship etc. without believing in God. "Belief in nothing" is a lie propogated by the religious to make the irreligious look like they don't care about a thing in the world, which is false. It also doesn't make sense because we, as the human species, don't even truly understand the concept of "nothing"

No shit. 

@ second bolded I never said that God = everything. 

Example of someone putting words in peoples mouths, when they never said that. 

actually, you did. Indirectly. You said "having something to believe in is more satisfying than having nothing to believe in". "Something to believe in" in this case, is God. And your alternative? "nothing to believe in". If it's either you believe in God or you believe in nothing, it stands to reason that you believe God = everything. And if God is only just "something" and not "everything", then why is the alternative to believing in him, "believing in nothing", when there are other things to believe in? 

Or is "having something to believe in" not a reference to God, in the context of what you said? I highly doubt that. "having something to believe in" (God) "is more satisfying than having nothing to believe in". If these are the opposite of each other, then what is the opposite of nothing? Everything. And the opposite of believing in nothing is believing in God, for you. Find a chip in my logic, then, that you didn't imply God = everything? Or did you just speak too loosely, parroting the false statement "atheists believe in nothing"?



BMaker11 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
BMaker11 said:

Just because something satisfies you doesn't make it true. Kids believe in Santa and it makes them happy that he brings them gifts for being good kids every year. But at the end of the day, Santa isn't real.

Also, it's a false dichotomy to say that if you don't believe in God, then you believe in nothing. God =/= everything, so the antithesis to believing in God isn't believing in nothing. You can beileve in peace, humanitarianism, altruism, love, friendship etc. without believing in God. "Belief in nothing" is a lie propogated by the religious to make the irreligious look like they don't care about a thing in the world, which is false. It also doesn't make sense because we, as the human species, don't even truly understand the concept of "nothing"

No shit. 

@ second bolded I never said that God = everything. 

Example of someone putting words in peoples mouths, when they never said that. 

actually, you did. Indirectly. You said "having something to believe in is more satisfying than having nothing to believe in". "Something to believe in" in this case, is God. And your alternative? "nothing to believe in". If it's either you believe in God or you believe in nothing, it stands to reason that you believe God = everything. And if God is only just "something" and not "everything", then why is the alternative to believing in him, "believing in nothing", when there are other things to believe in? 

Or is "having something to believe in" not a reference to God, in the context of what you said?

No I didn't, just becuase you say indirectly doesn't mean I said that. Again your trying to twist peoples words. 



MohammadBadir said:
JazzB1987 said:

But then Muslim Fanatism is also successful because they believe a billion sexy virgins are waiting for them.  I wonder if "you will have to have sex with alot of males if you dont go and explode somewhere" will work (you know ONLY punishment no reward)

wut?

I've been a muslim all my life and i've never heard of that.

I've heard of that. Its a reward of heaven. 



    

NNID: FrequentFlyer54

NobleTeam360 said:
BMaker11 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
BMaker11 said:

Just because something satisfies you doesn't make it true. Kids believe in Santa and it makes them happy that he brings them gifts for being good kids every year. But at the end of the day, Santa isn't real.

Also, it's a false dichotomy to say that if you don't believe in God, then you believe in nothing. God =/= everything, so the antithesis to believing in God isn't believing in nothing. You can beileve in peace, humanitarianism, altruism, love, friendship etc. without believing in God. "Belief in nothing" is a lie propogated by the religious to make the irreligious look like they don't care about a thing in the world, which is false. It also doesn't make sense because we, as the human species, don't even truly understand the concept of "nothing"

No shit. 

@ second bolded I never said that God = everything. 

Example of someone putting words in peoples mouths, when they never said that. 

actually, you did. Indirectly. You said "having something to believe in is more satisfying than having nothing to believe in". "Something to believe in" in this case, is God. And your alternative? "nothing to believe in". If it's either you believe in God or you believe in nothing, it stands to reason that you believe God = everything. And if God is only just "something" and not "everything", then why is the alternative to believing in him, "believing in nothing", when there are other things to believe in? 

Or is "having something to believe in" not a reference to God, in the context of what you said?

No I didn't, just becuase you say indirectly doesn't mean I said that. Again your trying to twist peoples words. 

I'd rather believe in God than believe in nothing is what you said. 

You're hiding behind the fact that you didn't outright post "God is everything", but the conclusion I made is valid and sound



Around the Network
BMaker11 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
BMaker11 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
BMaker11 said:

Just because something satisfies you doesn't make it true. Kids believe in Santa and it makes them happy that he brings them gifts for being good kids every year. But at the end of the day, Santa isn't real.

Also, it's a false dichotomy to say that if you don't believe in God, then you believe in nothing. God =/= everything, so the antithesis to believing in God isn't believing in nothing. You can beileve in peace, humanitarianism, altruism, love, friendship etc. without believing in God. "Belief in nothing" is a lie propogated by the religious to make the irreligious look like they don't care about a thing in the world, which is false. It also doesn't make sense because we, as the human species, don't even truly understand the concept of "nothing"

No shit. 

@ second bolded I never said that God = everything. 

Example of someone putting words in peoples mouths, when they never said that. 

actually, you did. Indirectly. You said "having something to believe in is more satisfying than having nothing to believe in". "Something to believe in" in this case, is God. And your alternative? "nothing to believe in". If it's either you believe in God or you believe in nothing, it stands to reason that you believe God = everything. And if God is only just "something" and not "everything", then why is the alternative to believing in him, "believing in nothing", when there are other things to believe in? 

Or is "having something to believe in" not a reference to God, in the context of what you said?

No I didn't, just becuase you say indirectly doesn't mean I said that. Again your trying to twist peoples words. 

I'd rather believe in God than believe in nothing is what you said. 

You're hiding behind the fact that you didn't outright post "God is everything", but the conclusion I made is valid and sound

Never said that sorry to say your word twisting isn't going to work. I don't think God is everything. 



hmm. I don't know, but if your belief in God is strong, I think that would do



NobleTeam360 said:

Never said that sorry to say your word twisting isn't going to work. I don't think God is everything. 


If not, then why is it that a lack of believing in God is "believing in nothing"? You'd rather have something to believe in and believe in nothing right? Could God be replaced with something else to believe in, in your worldview? If so, why stick to being Christian without the reward of Heaven? If he can't be replaced, and a lack of believing in him is "believing in nothing", the opposite of that is belief in God/everything. 

You started this by saying you'd rather believe in something (God) than believe in nothing. You could have said "I'd rather believe in God than something else" but no, you said believing in something is more satisfying than believing in nothing. This is not twisting words, you're just hiding behind your misspoken statement. There were implications based on what you said.

Just like in the Forza 3 vs GT6 thread that's up right now. The OP says "Overall Forza 3 has better textures, performance, better people animations and better damage." Would I be "twisting his words" if I implied from this statement that he thinks GT6s graphics are worse than Forza 3s? I mean, he didn't outright say it, but all points lead to believe that OP has that opinion. I did the same thing with what you said. You've just realized that your simple statement had more weight than you thought, or want to own up to, so you're saying I'm "twisting your words" to get out of it



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Slimebeast said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Interesting. Personally I wouldn't, for instance, consider helping the less fortunate populations wasted time and energy. Nor would I consider it a waste of time to seek guidance in the Bible if I agreed with its morals.

Also, the butterfly effect should make sure that your current lifestyle has great meaning even beyond your death. Though in a more selfless form.

Relatively speaking helping others can have great meaning, but it has no (or little) inherent and ultimate value as I see it. It's not the end goal. I can't see it as a truly fullfilling purpose in life to work and suffer only for the benefit of the less fortunate. To me that's just a form of slavery. In the same way, in its essense, "guidance from the Bible" has no ultimate value.

I would never be able to motivate it like that - a creator creates a bunch of individiduals only to be born into slaves for their even less fortunate brethren and then they also got guidance from a divine book. Mean

Anyway, Christianity is far more than just helping the poor. I see it as a hope and motivation to be able to struggle though this hard life. Christianity is about the thirs for everlasting life. There's a selfish component to it. Christianity assumes every individual cares about himself at least to the extent that he wants to live forever.

Butterfly effect? lol seriously? The butterfly effect gives your life meaning?


May I ask how willingly devoting a great part of your life into helping the less fortunate has any connection to slavery? Without that connection I can't make much sense out of your comment.

I presented the butterfly effect as an alternative reward to entering heaven after living a good life. A positive butterfly effect, to be precise. Meaning that even though you won't be living anymore, you can die happy knowing that you have made life better for upcoming generations thanks to the way you decided to live your life (possibly as a result of following the Bible's advice). As I see it, any humble Christian should ask for no more.

Demanding an eternal reward for your efforts in life seems quite selfish and greedy to me. Nothing that you've done or withstood could possibly we worth an infinite reward in return. Let alone living your "tough" life full of hardships in a first world country.


Sadly in our Western world the movitation for helping the less fortunate stems from the politically correct people in power who brainwash people and create strong excpetations , social pressure and obligations for ordinary citicens to behave as "humane" as possible in trying to life up to the Western World golden standard of altruism.That's nothing but slavery.

 



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
MoHasanie said:
You should also mention the hell punishment. Obviously everybody wouldn't follow a religion if there was no reward and/ or punishment.

And Heaven/Hell is not the only reward/punishment that religion has to offer. Is it?


Well, those are the only two end games for the Abrahamic religions because it can't get any worse than eternal damnation and it can't get any better than eternal bliss.