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Forums - General - Would Christianity be as successful without the Heaven reward?

Jon-Erich on 23 December 2013

No, it wouldn't. A much as people don't want to accept it, Satan has actually kept Christianity active for all these years. Fearing eternal damnation has gotten more of a reaction out of people than actually wanting to please God. However, I think it would be a far better religion without the Heaven reward. Like Buddhism, it would be about self-improvement and seeking some form of enlightenment rather than doing those things to simply appeal to a higher power.

That's also my problem with established religion. Somewhere along the way, that actual principles of the teachings of a particular faith have become less important and what's become more important is to maintain an establishment and sadly, that establishment is built on fear and greed.



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andrewclear on 23 December 2013

Well, Buddihism is successful without Heaven, so most likely, Christanity would be.

 

And, it seems a lot of people these days really want the Hell reward instead, so make of that what you will.



andrewclear on 23 December 2013
BMaker11 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Screamapillar said:
You can't have Christianity without heaven. It's not a possibility. The question itself is an impossibility, so there's no reason to ask it, because it can't be answered.

I agree, if there is no heaven then there is no God and if there is no God Christianity wouldn't exist, either that or if Christianity did exist it would be completely different than what we know today. 


It seems to me like both of you are trying to avoid the question. If this question is an impossibility, then so is asking what would have happened if Obama wasn't re-elected.

In any case, I'd be interested to hear your (well, and the others' who didn't respond) answers to my second question. If you'd care to share it.

I'd like to believe that I would still be a Christian regardless of a reward or punishment for my belief. Having something to believe in is much more satisfying than having nothing to believe in. 

Just because something satisfies you doesn't make it true. Kids believe in Santa and it makes them happy that he brings them gifts for being good kids every year. But at the end of the day, Santa isn't real.

Also, it's a false dichotomy to say that if you don't believe in God, then you believe in nothing. God =/= everything, so the antithesis to believing in God isn't believing in nothing. You can beileve in peace, humanitarianism, altruism, love, friendship etc. without believing in God. "Belief in nothing" is a lie propogated by the religious to make the irreligious look like they don't care about a thing in the world, which is false. It also doesn't make sense because we, as the human species, don't even truly understand the concept of "nothing"

Yeah, you can have Christanity without Heaven.  The actual foundation of Christanity is the belief in Christ, and a belief in forgiveness.



Moonhero on 23 December 2013

We all get to chill with JC in the end. It's all good, bros.



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IIIIITHE1IIIII on 23 December 2013
Slimebeast said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

Interesting. Personally I wouldn't, for instance, consider helping the less fortunate populations wasted time and energy. Nor would I consider it a waste of time to seek guidance in the Bible if I agreed with its morals.

Also, the butterfly effect should make sure that your current lifestyle has great meaning even beyond your death. Though in a more selfless form.

Relatively speaking helping others can have great meaning, but it has no (or little) inherent and ultimate value as I see it. It's not the end goal. I can't see it as a truly fullfilling purpose in life to work and suffer only for the benefit of the less fortunate. To me that's just a form of slavery. In the same way, in its essense, "guidance from the Bible" has no ultimate value.

I would never be able to motivate it like that - a creator creates a bunch of individiduals only to be born into slaves for their even less fortunate brethren and then they also got guidance from a divine book. Mean

Anyway, Christianity is far more than just helping the poor. I see it as a hope and motivation to be able to struggle though this hard life. Christianity is about the thirs for everlasting life. There's a selfish component to it. Christianity assumes every individual cares about himself at least to the extent that he wants to live forever.

Butterfly effect? lol seriously? The butterfly effect gives your life meaning?


May I ask how willingly devoting a great part of your life into helping the less fortunate has any connection to slavery? Without that connection I can't make much sense out of your comment.

I presented the butterfly effect as an alternative reward to entering heaven after living a good life. A positive butterfly effect, to be precise. Meaning that even though you won't be living anymore, you can die happy knowing that you have made life better for upcoming generations thanks to the way you decided to live your life (possibly as a result of following the Bible's advice). As I see it, any humble Christian should ask for no more.

Demanding an eternal reward for your efforts in life seems quite selfish and greedy to me. Nothing that you've done or withstood could possibly we worth an infinite reward in return. Let alone living your "tough" life full of hardships in a first world country.



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IIIIITHE1IIIII on 23 December 2013
padib said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

So a God that creates the Universe, makes way for your existence, knows exactly what is right and what is wrong and, potentially, answers your prayers would not be worth applying to unless you get an eternal reward in return?

Also, keep in mind that without risking going to hell there is no need for salvation. In this case Jesus didn't die for your sins, he solely died for what he believed/knew was the right way to live your life and how you should treat your neighbour.

The treasure in the eternal reward is life, which is God himself. We were do00omed, so eternal life is a huge gift after a death sacrifice of a holy God. That makes the whole think godlike.


Ah, ok.



ASStronaut on 23 December 2013

Islam and Christianity? They are both loathsome creations.



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superryo on 23 December 2013
SlayerRondo said:
Of course not. Why do you think they invented heaven and hell if not for recruiting purposes.

Now Mohammed really kicked things off with the offer of virgins in the afterlife.

I wonder where all those virgins come from?



NolSinkler on 23 December 2013
superryo said:
SlayerRondo said:
Of course not. Why do you think they invented heaven and hell if not for recruiting purposes.

Now Mohammed really kicked things off with the offer of virgins in the afterlife.

I wonder where all those virgins come from?


nuns and ugly chicks.



NobleTeam360 on 23 December 2013
BMaker11 said:
NobleTeam360 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Screamapillar said:
You can't have Christianity without heaven. It's not a possibility. The question itself is an impossibility, so there's no reason to ask it, because it can't be answered.

I agree, if there is no heaven then there is no God and if there is no God Christianity wouldn't exist, either that or if Christianity did exist it would be completely different than what we know today. 


It seems to me like both of you are trying to avoid the question. If this question is an impossibility, then so is asking what would have happened if Obama wasn't re-elected.

In any case, I'd be interested to hear your (well, and the others' who didn't respond) answers to my second question. If you'd care to share it.

I'd like to believe that I would still be a Christian regardless of a reward or punishment for my belief. Having something to believe in is much more satisfying than having nothing to believe in. 

Just because something satisfies you doesn't make it true. Kids believe in Santa and it makes them happy that he brings them gifts for being good kids every year. But at the end of the day, Santa isn't real.

Also, it's a false dichotomy to say that if you don't believe in God, then you believe in nothing. God =/= everything, so the antithesis to believing in God isn't believing in nothing. You can beileve in peace, humanitarianism, altruism, love, friendship etc. without believing in God. "Belief in nothing" is a lie propogated by the religious to make the irreligious look like they don't care about a thing in the world, which is false. It also doesn't make sense because we, as the human species, don't even truly understand the concept of "nothing"

No shit. 

@ second bolded I never said that God = everything. 

Example of someone putting words in peoples mouths, when they never said that.