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Forums - Nintendo - Dark Souls Producer says Wii U audience doesn't care about Dark Souls.

Well, I can't say I'm the part of the Wii U audience that will prove him wrong.

I find that particular series very uninteresting.



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curl-6 said:
As a Wii U owner, I certainly don't care for cheap deaths and tedious repetition.


Only if you suck at it really bad :)



curl-6 said:
think-man said:
curl-6 said:
As a Wii U owner, I certainly don't care for cheap deaths and tedious repetition.


Every death in the souls games is the players fault, if you're dying then your not good enough. the repetition is also only there if you suck, I've never found either game very hard.

I'm no stranger to difficulty. But Dark and Demon's Souls are just plain cheap. Removing what could be hours of progress on dying is unacceptable. Having to redo what you have already done is a textbook example of bad game design. It just isn't fun.

I'm not saying you have to like Dark Souls, everyone is entitled to have its own tastes.

Still I think you're conisdering DS too much like the generic jrpg and you didn't really get how the game is meant to be played.

DS is not about redoing tha same shit again and again until you do it right (of course if you play it this way it will get tedious), the game is about getting prepared and finding the best strategy according to your character and your skills as a player to beat dungeons and bosses. Diyng is almost never useless in DS because almost every time you can learn something, losing exps is not even that relevant during the 1st run (for example, I've managed to get to final boss on level 1). Some deaths may be chap but it's like 1 out of 10 times.

If, on the contrary, you didn't lose exps when you die you wouldn't be compelled to find different strategies and approaches, the game would just be about redoing the same stuff again and again until you build up your character enough to beat the game with ease.



curl-6 said:
think-man said:
curl-6 said:
As a Wii U owner, I certainly don't care for cheap deaths and tedious repetition.


Every death in the souls games is the players fault, if you're dying then your not good enough. the repetition is also only there if you suck, I've never found either game very hard.

I'm no stranger to difficulty. But Dark and Demon's Souls are just plain cheap. Removing what could be hours of progress on dying is unacceptable. Having to redo what you have already done is a textbook example of bad game design. It just isn't fun.

So what you're saying is the game is too hardcore for the casual Nintendo platforms?



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oniyide said:
DLC is NOT a major selling point for AC, if it were then the PS3 version would trounce the 360 version since it usually has exclusive stuff. I dont even think you follow that series. COD maybe, but i seriously doubt its stopping that MUCH people from buying it.

They didnt have any qualms about PS4/Xone cause they knew the audience woudl buy it...Wii U well they tried (some of them) and the sales for the game prove they were right. How were those games inferior? By not having DLC? its not like its free for the other versions. Funny is how some were bragging that the WIi U versions(especially of Blops2) were superior and all of a sudden when they sell like crap the excuses come. From all the reviews ive read they run about the same as the PS360 versions. I seriously doubt you played any of them. AC3>NSMBWiiU see how opinions work? They are not facts.

Quality is subjective. They kept at it for the reasons you've stated but i dont see the problem. Again quality is subjective, what is the difference between JD and Country dance? What is the difference between Zumba and Jillian Micheals workout? Using sales as a barometer for quality has and will always be wrong.

I should clarify - when I say "major selling point", I don't so much mean "it's why it sells", but "it's why people are choosing one version over another", as in "why would you buy the version that the developers openly said isn't supported for future content?" Gamers don't generally take dismissive attitudes well, and Wii U gamers are no exception. Especially when they were able to support in terms of future content with the previous game; so they can't claim lack of infrastructure, only lack of willingness.

And I never said that sales are a barometer for quality. What they are, though, is a way to get some insight into quality. Quality is just one of the factors in sales - another, for instance, is awareness (marketing being a major driver in this instance). And then there's appeal - I'm guessing that Zumba is something that more people know than "Jillian Michaels"; It is noteworthy that Jillian Michaels sold far better in America than Europe, whereas the numbers were much closer for Zumba. What I've said is that Metacritic doesn't indicate quality, and never has. That Super Mario 3D World is highest on Metacritic reflects the fact that some reviewers liked the game, not that the game is necessarily higher quality (although I do believe it is).

Nobody was "bragging" that "Blops2" was better on Wii U. Indeed, Blops2 didn't even get DLC. Some were saying it was the best version in their opinions. Indeed, Jim Sterling, who described it as the best console version, had this to say: "The game mostly looks on par with the Xbox 360 version, albeit with the removal of dynamic shadows and a slight roughness to the edges of distant NPCs."

Simply put, there was nothing in Blops2 to justify people moving over to it over the other versions. Thus, fans didn't buy a Wii U for the game.

When you put out a product on even slightly superior hardware (and the Wii U hardware is superior to the 360 and PS3, that part is without any reasonable doubt from any person capable of reasonable thought) that is even slightly worse in performance (and Jim Sterling's description fits that), and don't actually leverage the unique features of the hardware, and then fail to support the game with future content that all the other versions get, that's an inferior port. Note that I don't blame Treyarch for this - I have no doubt whatsoever that the issues were due to Activision's higher-ups refusing to allow them to spend the necessary time and energy on it.

The issue, by the way, with lack of DLC support isn't that people don't get to buy DLC - it's that the developers, or the publishers, are treating the owners of the Wii U like nuisances rather than customers; when you fail to treat your customers with respect, you can't be surprised when they choose not to be customers. And it's an inferior product as a result of lack of DLC because it means that you miss out on things that the other versions get, even if they have to pay to get it.



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Rafux said:
Mnementh said:
Rafux said:
Wii can't even handle Dark Soul's start screen.

That would be probably true for a 2D-game. But 3D has taken over the game-industry, because 3D-games scale a lot better. There are a lot of options you can change to change the needed computing power: change the render-resolution, reduce the number of polygons, add or remove effects, reduce the resolution of textures, change the viewing-depth and so on. All of that can be done mostly automatic or with low manpower. That's why we see COD, Assassins Creed, Watchdogs and others on PS3, X360, WiiU, XO and PS4. So why no Wii or WiiU-version of Dark Souls? The simple answer is: the team most likely had no devkit and no Know-How in developing for Nintendo-consoles and the expected sales were to low for them to get both.


Scale or not it would be such a different experience on the original Wii that is not worth the trouble just look at Dead Rising Wii which had like 6 zombies per room.

I only countered your claim, that it would've been impossible. Possible yes. Visually downgraded: sure. Gameplay intact: possible. Makes sense in the market: probably not, and that's why it didn't happened.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
JazzB1987 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
JazzB1987 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
JazzB1987 said:


For me it would be PC or Wiiu not PS4 or X1 because in terms of gameplay PS4 and X1 dont really offer that much  Wiiu with its gamepad does.

And since neither X1 or PS4 seem to have mod support  WiiU (for the gamepad) and PC (for the modability) are no brainers.

Graphics is not important. And as you said games are ment to be played (not looked at) and you can play EVERY SINGLE GAME so much better on PC because of the freedom the platform offers you. Its just that people dont get it because of marketing and well maybe ignorance?

Well the guy is technically wrong because the devs decide what people are going to buy.  If there would be a FIFA with 1 single team on PS4 and X1  and the complete game will only be available on WiiU for the next 3 years then the Fifa fanbase would move to WiiU. Like the jRPG fanbase moved from N64 to PS1. Or like half of the "mainstream fanbase" moved from PS2 to 360. But instead of working to make Wiiu a platform thats worth developing for  they just go  NAAH IM TO LAZY FUCK THAT.

Devs made an effort to make the Playstation brand huge. They did so with the xbox brand.  They have no interest in bulding a new userbase because its easier to just be lazy  and thats why we have that N64 GC Wii WiiU problem with third parties.     Making a game and then giving up does not work. COD3 on Wii sold great almost identical to the 360 version even tho the 360 came out a year earlier. Then the biggest COD game ever  skipped Wii (MW1) and activision fucked up. Bringing a reflex edition to Wii 1 year to late put the nail into the COD userbase on Nintendo platforms. 

I am more inclined to believe you would buy the next gen HD twins versions of any multiplat game over the WIi U still because you wrote this: 

"I buy every multiplatform game on PC  why would I limit myself to inferior stuff?   (sure owning Dark Souls on PC is everything but better than the console version but thats like the first game ever xD."

The HD twins versions would be much closer to the PC version than the Wii U version. You said it yourself "why would I limit myself to inferior stuff?"

Luckily enough for your logic the PS3 and 360 versions of multiplats would be inferior but theres still a problem. For some reason they perform on par with the 360 and PS3 which are still by standards last gen tech. So really, it comes down to community if you like screwing with people in those games.

As for Dark Souls 2 the Wii Version would look better the community would be extremely small compared to other places.

P.S.

You have to admit that 1M+ Plus sales for COD on a 100 million selling platform is pathetic though. ;p


"you said yourself "why would I limit myself to inferior stuff?"
With inferior stuff I talk about gameplay and "bang for your buck" not visuals.  I dont care about having medium or ultra settings. in terms of visuals  the most important thing next to art style  is framerate and then to some extend resolution because frames directly affect the gameplay and the resolution gives better overall vision (even stuff like Ratchet&Clank Tools of Destruction's 960x704 is good enough) Its not important if the ball is a cube or well a ball as long as people can understand what is being shown because as soon as you stop playing the actual image your eyes saw gets replaced with a flawed memory. ( playing with cube soccer balls even has a posiive effect it trains your imagination xD)

Hell I still prefer
International Super Star Soccer 64    over even Fifa14
VS
(the visuals are sufficient. Shadows are a emulator bug)



" PS3 and 360 versions of multiplats would be inferior but theres still a problem. For some reason they perform on par with the 360 and PS3 which are still by standards last gen tech. "

What do you mean by PS360 versions sell on par with PS360 versions?

"You have to admit that 1M+ Plus sales for COD on a 100 million selling platform is pathetic though. ;p"

Well it seems pathetic but not when you think about why it just sells 1m units. 

  • Wii versions dont get mentioned in commercials. (COD is a mainstream game. Mainstream =  commercial victims)
  • Wii customers are verbally attacked (sounds harsh but I mean stuff like  "they dont buy it anyways") and the games dont come so they simply get used to living without the other stuff.
  • Then ports that could be better get low priority treatment. Well my money is worth the same as other peoples money you dont offer a good product I dont buy it. The COD is FullHD lie just to find out it is sub 720p did not help. (I skipped it because of that. The resolution is good enough but they lied and as a matter of principle I did not support that. Like I dont suppoert EA at all)
  • Then devs dont understand that 100m Wii owners are not Wii-only owners. Alot of them dont even buy NIntendo games they just bought Wii Sports. Alot of them play on PC like I do. Alot of them also bought a 360 or PS3(or prior to that a PS2 because the games dont show up on Nintendo platforms. I did but only for exclusives)
    And especially in the case of COD. The userbase moved on to other systems because there was no COD Modern Warfare on Wii. Prior to that it sold extremely good.
    1 Call of Duty 3 X360 2006 Shooter Activision 1.46 0.89 0.02 0.27 2.63
    2 Call of Duty 3 Wii N/A Shooter Activision 1.15 0.83 0.00 0.22 2.20
    3 Call of Duty 3 PS3 2006 Shooter Activision 0.56 0.59 0.03 0.24 1.42
    notice how the PS3 version sold just 1.42 even tho the PS1 and PS2 were the allegedly "hardcore" consoles?

The franchise fucked up because the next installement was not available. Every COD fan that waited moved on to another system and then word of mouth and commercials did the rest it became a sensation and there you have it. Only Activision is at fault here.

I see 2 possible reasons
A)
Devs/publishers have a problem they became lazy and used to games selling on their own without working for it. They forgot that you actually had to establish a franchise on a system. They especially forgot that the NIntendo fanbase is the most sceptical one because of all the past bullshit that happened. You cant just go and make a COD game or Dark Souls and expect it to sell on its own. And everytime there is a chance for a fanbase to grow the small new fanbase gets crushed by the next installment not showing up or by crippled ports and missing modes etc.

or

B) Devs actually want their games to come to WiiU but that cant happen because of stupid greedy shareholder assholes.
Most companies that get listed in whatever stock exchange are doomed. They drop their philosophy because shareholders constantly go "ME WANTZ SHORT TERM PROFIT $$$$$" For them SHORT TERM PROFIT is more important than LONG TERM PROFIT.
Just look at Nintendo how the stupid shareholders constantly want stupid things. Nintendo understands it  Microsoft understands it "INVEST TIME AND MONEY and make the XBOX brand huge." It worked out damn well.

I mean GTA 5 on WiiUwould be a no brainer. Rockstar has $$$$$$$$$$$ and porting is not that expensive. Adding cool stuff like  control your car radio and GPS (every ingame car manufacturer has its own dashboard/radio/GPS design etc on the gamepad.) Or every smartphone having its own operating system on the Wiiu gamepad would be cool.
And noone can tell me that GTA5 would not make profit on WiiU.  Even if its just $1 it would be 1 f***** dollar and the brand would have established itself (which is worth more than than money alone) so the successor can sell even better. But that would actually be work and focusing on long term profit  thats not how shareholders want it.
 



curl-6 said:
As a Wii U owner, I certainly don't care for cheap deaths and tedious repetition.

As a WiiU-owner, I certainly do care for cheap deaths (ZombiU) and tedious repitition (Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate).



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With that mentality, XB1 and PS4 shouldn't get it as well because they have HALF the amount of consoles on the market.



Aielyn said:
Torillian said:
People need to realize the difference between something said about a post and something said about a person.  I can't call you stupid that's against the rules, but if I have good reasoning I can call your post stupid without any issue.  Can't go crazy with it but it's reasonable to toss out there for a particularly repugnant post/stance (aka yours)

Why can't I use metacritic?  That's exactly what you used in your own analysis.  Pretty convenient stance you're taking that all those high selling Wii games were actually just misunderstood while Haze is a pile of crap that Sony fans bought because they don't know what a good game is.

I didn't say you were attacking me. I said that, as a mod, you should be exercising more restraint, and using more respectful language. Calling a post or argument stupid (or, better yet, misguided) is one thing, calling it "self indulgent masturbatory drivel" is quite another. And for the record, the phrase "Self indulgent" *does* refer to me, and not to the post or the argument.

And when did I use metacritic in my analysis? I used Gamerankings, for one thing. For another, Haze was panned for, and I'm going to quote IGN directly here, "a horrible plot, weak gameplay mechanics and visuals that are truly underwhelming". Its explanation for receiving a 4.5 for gameplay was "A creative concept hampered by gimmicks, a weak story and poor AI, Haze is a disappointment from a developer well versed in shooter mechanics". Now compare with the examples I gave from Michael Jackson: The Experience and Mario Party 8, and tell me which ones you think are rated lower because of problems with the game, and which are rated lower because the game wasn't the reviewer's proverbial cup of tea.

I referred to Haze's Gamerankings ranking for one simple reason - it's a game within a genre that most reviewers like, with a style of play intended for those reviewers, and thus comparing it to, say, the reviews for Call of Duty is a reasonable thing to do.

The value of game reviews depends on the type of game, you see. This is best demonstrated by the fact that one of the most important games of the last generation, Wii Sports, was rated 76%, placing it below games like Red Steel 2, Rayman Raving Rabbids, and LEGO Rock Band.

We're perfectly allowed to have vocal disagreements with users over what we personally perceive as bad opinions. He just took issue with a specific part of your post (a different one than the one I felt was particularly well-conceived).



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