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Forums - Sony Discussion - What I Want To See In Second Model Of Vita

All of those would be nice, although I'm fine with the analog sticks. 5 is definitely true, once I had to delete about 3 or 4 hours of playtime in Zero Escape because I needed to use the touchscreen and it wouldn't work. It doesn't happen often, but it's pretty annoying.



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the-pi-guy said:
joeorc said:
the-pi-guy said:
Kaizar said:

 

It seems like the PS Vita has everything going against it, from 140 million polygons VS. 160 million polygons to a maximum of 40 shader ores VS. a minimum of 50 shader cores, to each handheld having a 4-core target up to 1 GHz CPU withthe ARM11 focusing so much of synthesis or whatever that it gives it an advantage over other CPU, unless you use ARM11 on a 3rd party device which would just cause a whole bunch of unknown bugs & glitches you will never find (so ARM11 can only be use in a Nintendo device, but gives it an advantage over all other CPUs when it's in a 1st party device).

The PS Vita just seems to have too much going against it across the board, including photo taking & video recording & Augmented Reality.

 

I'd love to see some sources for these claims.   

do not even bother, many of the People who know Arm Cortex based processor's and GPU's that go into the SOC's have tried to explain his Myth of the 3DS being anywhere near the hardware performance of the PSVita is not only pie in the sky hope, but its downright wrong in what he keep's posting, the fact that he keep's posting this when Arm Holding's info on the SOC's shows just how wrong he is, show's he is not interested in learning about the hardware, he just wants to make claims that are no where near being truthful.

Thanks, I'll try to keep that in mind.  :)


Well here's what I have found so far about the specs. The 3DS CPU seems to have an advantage over all other 4-core 1 GHz CPUs when used on a 1st party device like the 3DS, but if you use it on a 3rd party device it will have a lot of bugs & glitches you will never find. And it seems you can't underclock it any lower then 350 MHz a core. Anyways I hope this info does you more good then me, since I'm not that good about figuring out specs.

ARM11

 

Differences from ARM9

In terms of instruction set, the ARM11 builds on the preceding ARM9 generation. It incorporates all ARM926EJ-S features and adds the ARMv6 instructions for media support (SIMD) and accelerating IRQ response.

Microarchitecture improvements in ARM11 cores include:

  • SIMD instructions which can double MPEG-4 and audio digital signal processing algorithm speed
  • Cache is physically addressed, solving many cache aliasing problems and reducing context switch overhead
  • Unaligned and mixed-endian data access is supported
  • Reduced heat production and lower overheating risk
  • Redesigned pipeline, supporting faster clock speeds (target up to 1 GHz)
    • Longer: 8 (vs 5) stages
    • Out-of-order completion for some operations (e.g. stores)
    • Dynamic branch prediction/folding (like XScale)
    • Cache misses don't block execution of non-dependent instructions
    • Load/store parallelism
    • ALU parallelism
  • 64-bit data paths

JTAG debug support (for halting, stepping, breakpoints, and watchpoints) was simplified. The EmbeddedICE module was replaced with an interface which became part of the ARMv7 architecture. The hardware tracing modules (ETM and ETB) are compatible, but updated, versions of those used in the ARM9. In particular, trace semantics were updated to address parallel instruction execution and data transfers.

ARM makes an effort to promote good Verilog coding styles and techniques. This ensures semantically rigorous designs, preserving identical semantics throughout the chip design flow, which included extensive use of formal verification techniques. Without such attention, integrating an ARM11 with third party designs could risk exposing hard-to-find latent bugs. Due to ARM cores being integrated into many different designs, using a variety of logic synthesis tools and chip manufacturing processes, the impact of its register-transfer level (RTL) quality is magnified many times.[3] The ARM11 generation focused more on synthesis than previous generations, making such concerns be more of an issue.

[edit]Cores

There are four ARM11 cores:

  • ARM1136[4]
  • ARM1156, introduced Thumb2 instructions
  • ARM1176, introduced security extensions[5]
  • ARM11MPcore, introduced multicore support

 

 

PICA200
 

Specification

  • 65 nm Single Core [7](max. clock frequency 400 MHz)
    • pixel performance: 800 Mpixel/s[7]
      • 1600 Mpixel/s
    • vertex performance: 15.3 Mpolygon/s[7]
      • 160Mtriangle/s
  • Power consumption: 0.5-1.0 mW/MHz[2]
  • Frame Buffer max. 4095×4095 pixels
  • Supported pixel formats: RGBA 4-4-4-4, RGB 5-6-5, RGBA 5-5-5-1, RGBA 8-8-8-8
  • Vertex program (ARB_vertex_program)
  • Render-to-Texture
  • MipMap
  • Bilinear texture filtering
  • Alpha blending
  • Full-scene anti-aliasing (2×2)
  • Polygon offset
  • 8-bit stencil buffer
  • 24-bit depth buffer
  • Single/Double/Triple buffer
  • DMP's MAESTRO-2G technology
    • per pixel lighting
    • procedural texture
    • refraction mapping
    • subdivision primitive
    • shadow
    • gaseous object rendering

 



the-pi-guy said:
Kaizar said:

Nintendo hasn't officially release any specs for the 3DS, but the ones that seem probable suggest a dual-core Arm11 MPcore.  

 Why do you want 3D on the vita so much?    Yes 3D is very popular, but it's nowhere near anything that's going to move a lot of units and it's also not something that's likely to happen either.  

I'm too tired, I'm just gonna leave it at this.

Well, if 3D won't move a lot of units, then I guess nothing will, plus the 3DS already has 3D, so I guess the PS Vita has the problem of being the PSP successor with less wanted software. I'm not surprise since the feature most people were bragging about was 2 joysticks, vs. people bragging about such 3DS features as streetPass & 3D & motion controls & 3D AR, which some people think the 3DS only does 3D AR LOL. Plus there is the 3DS software vs. Vita software, which I saw coming after comparing E3 2010 3DS games to E3 2011 Vita games.


But we know the name of the cores, and there are 4 different names:

Cores

There are four ARM11 cores:

  • ARM1136[4]
  • ARM1156, introduced Thumb2 instructions
  • ARM1176, introduced security extensions[5]
  • ARM11MPcore, introduced multicore support



Kaizar said:
the-pi-guy said:
joeorc said:
the-pi-guy said:
Kaizar said:

 

It seems like the PS Vita has everything going against it, from 140 million polygons VS. 160 million polygons to a maximum of 40 shader ores VS. a minimum of 50 shader cores, to each handheld having a 4-core target up to 1 GHz CPU withthe ARM11 focusing so much of synthesis or whatever that it gives it an advantage over other CPU, unless you use ARM11 on a 3rd party device which would just cause a whole bunch of unknown bugs & glitches you will never find (so ARM11 can only be use in a Nintendo device, but gives it an advantage over all other CPUs when it's in a 1st party device).

The PS Vita just seems to have too much going against it across the board, including photo taking & video recording & Augmented Reality.

 

I'd love to see some sources for these claims.   

do not even bother, many of the People who know Arm Cortex based processor's and GPU's that go into the SOC's have tried to explain his Myth of the 3DS being anywhere near the hardware performance of the PSVita is not only pie in the sky hope, but its downright wrong in what he keep's posting, the fact that he keep's posting this when Arm Holding's info on the SOC's shows just how wrong he is, show's he is not interested in learning about the hardware, he just wants to make claims that are no where near being truthful.

Thanks, I'll try to keep that in mind.  :)


Well here's what I have found so far about the specs. The 3DS CPU seems to have an advantage over all other 4-core 1 GHz CPUs when used on a 1st party device like the 3DS, but if you use it on a 3rd party device it will have a lot of bugs & glitches you will never find. And it seems you can't underclock it any lower then 350 MHz a core. Anyways I hope this info does you more good then me, since I'm not that good about figuring out specs.

ARM11

Differences from ARM9

In terms of instruction set, the ARM11 builds on the preceding ARM9 generation. It incorporates all ARM926EJ-S features and adds the ARMv6 instructions for media support (SIMD) and accelerating IRQ response.

the PSVita is "Arm Cortex A9", you are looking at ARM9 ..LOL, they are not the same thing

OK you do know the ARM 11 is way older than the Cortex A series of processor's. you are getting confused.

while i can see that ,you it seems do not yet understand those series of processor's.

The ARM11 microarchitecture (announced 29 April 2002)

vs

http://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a9.php



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

the-pi-guy said:
Kaizar said:
the-pi-guy said:
Kaizar said:

Nintendo hasn't officially release any specs for the 3DS, but the ones that seem probable suggest a dual-core Arm11 MPcore.  

 Why do you want 3D on the vita so much?    Yes 3D is very popular, but it's nowhere near anything that's going to move a lot of units and it's also not something that's likely to happen either.  

I'm too tired, I'm just gonna leave it at this.

Well, if 3D won't move a lot of units, then I guess nothing will, plus the 3DS already has 3D, so I guess the PS Vita has the problem of being the PSP successor with less wanted software. I'm not surprise since the feature most people were bragging about was 2 joysticks, vs. people bragging about such 3DS features as streetPass & 3D & motion controls & 3D AR, which some people think the 3DS only does 3D AR LOL. Plus there is the 3DS software vs. Vita software, which I saw coming after comparing E3 2010 3DS games to E3 2011 Vita games.


But we know the name of the cores, and there are 4 different names:

Cores

There are four ARM11 cores:

  • ARM1136[4]
  • ARM1156, introduced Thumb2 instructions
  • ARM1176, introduced security extensions[5]
  • ARM11MPcore, introduced multicore support

 

The thing that is keeping a lot of people from getting a psv is the same thing that kept people from getting a psp, high price point and very few mainstream games.  PSP has sold 80 million units.  Compare that to the DS, 150 million units.  I'll give you a hint, people didn't buy a DS because of 3D.  PS2 sold more than 150 million units, it wasn't due to 3d.  3D was possible at the time as well, it just wasn't a big thing.  (Remember the Red and Cyan glasses.)  iPod Touch + iPad + iPhone isn't super successful due to it's 3D capabilities, it's successful because it has mainstream appeal.  These devices don't have built in 3D.   

The PSVita is a great device that no body feels that they need.  If it had awesome software, if it had a game from The Elder Scrolls series(Skyrim/Oblivion)  I would get a Vita a soon as possible.  That would be HUGE to have that on the system.  

I want to get a Vita, but there isn't really any game that I need to have on it.  That's the big problem.  If it had a legitimite Elder Scrolls game, I'd buy a Vita for 350$, let alone 250$.  It has great games for it, just no compelling software.  It doesn't need 3D.  If it had 3D, I think it would be even less likely people would buy it, because of the higher cost, even fewer games.  3D isn't enough on it's own to be purchaseable, people didn't go see Avatar in 3D because it was in 3D.  They watched Avatar in 3D because they like the movie.  3D is just icing on the cake.  

Have you ever gotten a cake just because of the icing?  Even if you absolutely hated the rest of the cake, you said "I like this icing, I'm going to get it even though I like the other cake better?"

BTW Arm A9 is different from Arm 9.  A9 is newer and much faster.  

I know ARM9 is Nintendo and NOT AMD ARM vortex 9. And ARM11 is also newer and much faster but also has a heavy focus on synthesis and/or whatever, which gives it an advantage over all other 1 GHz CPUs with the same number of cores when used on a 1st party device like the 3DS and that's an understatement. But ARM11 Is like a double-edge sword because you can't use it on 3rd party devices at all realistically, if you wanted to use a CPU on a non-Nintendo device, it wouldn't be ARM11.

Anyways, the PSP did much more better at $250 with a smaller amount of gamers to buy a gaming system, and it was also using exclusive memory cards.

I admit it seems with the current knowledge that most people have right now about the GPUs for polygons & shader cores and so fort, that it must be the lack of both features & software that are making up these sales.

Plus everyone I know under age 25 or under age 21 does like the 3D feature and sees it as a big selling point.

And people after seeing most 3D movies will then only see a 3D version of the movie because of the 3D. But you are right about their first 3D movie experience being because of the movie, but after they see 1 movie in 3D they then want to see the other movies in 3D because both the 3D and the movie, but at other times it will only be because of the 3D. And there are way more better examples of 3D then Avatar, for instance:

The Great Gatsby

Star Trek Into Darkness

Any CGI animated movie

Pacific Rim

(Act 1 & act 3 of) R.I.P.D.

The Wolverine (at least every other scene)

Gravity

Life of Pi

And there are so many more 3D movies I can mention, that makes avatar an obsolete example.

Plus 3D doesn't increase the cost of a game, because you just need z-depth which is only a few extra lines of code (look at the GameCube games which all have z-depth, which means you can convert 2D to 3D when playing GameCube games, but don't try is with PS2 games because they look like flat pieces of cardboard with space in between when you convert 2D into 3D). It's the hardware that does the real work, and in e case of Nintendo' well Nintendo does all the work for more depth in newly release 3DS games, which is the only reason why new 3rd party games also have way more extreme 3D.

Plus the 3D camera to take 3D photos & videos really do appeal to a lot of people as another reason to get a 3DS which speeds up sales...as well as increase life time sale by a fair amount for overall lifetime sales.

The ability to stream Netflix & Hulu Plus 3D streaming videos (when they get them, because there are way too many 3D movies each year and growing), and to purchase full 3D movies which this one thing is coming in the next 12 months, will increase overall audience making the sales more greater since some people will buy it just for that features even if it was priced at $250, especially buy the 3DS XL for these features only. And the glasses-free 3D makes a big difference to a lot of people who want 3D, but only if it's glasses-free (there are surprisingly so many people like this).

So the 3D feature seems like its going to be big all by itself once the full 3D Movies come in any form to watch on the 3DS. And I know quite a bit of people who only bought the Nintendo 3DS to take 3D photos and/or record 3D videos only. And I'm in Los Angeles County which has a gigantic population within itself and i constantly travel from santa monica to Westwood to century city to slauson swapmeet to Downtown LA to MacArthur park to South Central to Korean town and so fort for purchasing certain things, and other certain things at a great discount like particular YugiOh cards and pretty cheap at that...as well as actually good looking cloths that are the opposite of what is sold at the GAP & Old Navy, because the gap & old navy sells ugly cloths, LOL but true.



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Who's gonna buy the second model if the first one isn't selling? :/

But I would love to see some custom skins

Edit: Also cheaper memory and more games



                  

PC Specs: CPU: 7800X3D || GPU: Strix 4090 || RAM: 32GB DDR5 6000 || Main SSD: WD 2TB SN850

the-pi-guy said:
Kaizar said:
the-pi-guy said:
Kaizar said:
the-pi-guy said:
Kaizar said:

Nintendo hasn't officially release any specs for the 3DS, but the ones that seem probable suggest a dual-core Arm11 MPcore.  

 Why do you want 3D on the vita so much?    Yes 3D is very popular, but it's nowhere near anything that's going to move a lot of units and it's also not something that's likely to happen either.  

I'm too tired, I'm just gonna leave it at this.

Well, if 3D won't move a lot of units, then I guess nothing will, plus the 3DS already has 3D, so I guess the PS Vita has the problem of being the PSP successor with less wanted software. I'm not surprise since the feature most people were bragging about was 2 joysticks, vs. people bragging about such 3DS features as streetPass & 3D & motion controls & 3D AR, which some people think the 3DS only does 3D AR LOL. Plus there is the 3DS software vs. Vita software, which I saw coming after comparing E3 2010 3DS games to E3 2011 Vita games.


But we know the name of the cores, and there are 4 different names:

Cores

There are four ARM11 cores:

  • ARM1136[4]
  • ARM1156, introduced Thumb2 instructions
  • ARM1176, introduced security extensions[5]
  • ARM11MPcore, introduced multicore support

 

The thing that is keeping a lot of people from getting a psv is the same thing that kept people from getting a psp, high price point and very few mainstream games.  PSP has sold 80 million units.  Compare that to the DS, 150 million units.  I'll give you a hint, people didn't buy a DS because of 3D.  PS2 sold more than 150 million units, it wasn't due to 3d.  3D was possible at the time as well, it just wasn't a big thing.  (Remember the Red and Cyan glasses.)  iPod Touch + iPad + iPhone isn't super successful due to it's 3D capabilities, it's successful because it has mainstream appeal.  These devices don't have built in 3D.   

The PSVita is a great device that no body feels that they need.  If it had awesome software, if it had a game from The Elder Scrolls series(Skyrim/Oblivion)  I would get a Vita a soon as possible.  That would be HUGE to have that on the system.  

I want to get a Vita, but there isn't really any game that I need to have on it.  That's the big problem.  If it had a legitimite Elder Scrolls game, I'd buy a Vita for 350$, let alone 250$.  It has great games for it, just no compelling software.  It doesn't need 3D.  If it had 3D, I think it would be even less likely people would buy it, because of the higher cost, even fewer games.  3D isn't enough on it's own to be purchaseable, people didn't go see Avatar in 3D because it was in 3D.  They watched Avatar in 3D because they like the movie.  3D is just icing on the cake.  

Have you ever gotten a cake just because of the icing?  Even if you absolutely hated the rest of the cake, you said "I like this icing, I'm going to get it even though I like the other cake better?"

BTW Arm A9 is different from Arm 9.  A9 is newer and much faster.  

I know ARM9 is Nintendo and NOT AMD ARM vortex 9. And ARM11 is also newer and much faster but also has a heavy focus on synthesis and/or whatever, which gives it an advantage over all other 1 GHz CPUs with the same number of cores when used on a 1st party device like the 3DS and that's an understatement. But ARM11 Is like a double-edge sword because you can't use it on 3rd party devices at all realistically, if you wanted to use a CPU on a non-Nintendo device, it wouldn't be ARM11.

Anyways, the PSP did much more better at $250 with a smaller amount of gamers to buy a gaming system, and it was also using exclusive memory cards.

I admit it seems with the current knowledge that most people have right now about the GPUs for polygons & shader cores and so fort, that it must be the lack of both features & software that are making up these sales.

Plus everyone I know under age 25 or under age 21 does like the 3D feature and sees it as a big selling point.

And people after seeing most 3D movies will then only see a 3D version of the movie because of the 3D. But you are right about their first 3D movie experience being because of the movie, but after they see 1 movie in 3D they then want to see the other movies in 3D because both the 3D and the movie, but at other times it will only be because of the 3D. And there are way more better examples of 3D then Avatar, for instance:

The Great Gatsby

Star Trek Into Darkness

Any CGI animated movie

Pacific Rim

(Act 1 & act 3 of) R.I.P.D.

The Wolverine (at least every other scene)

Gravity

Life of Pi

And there are so many more 3D movies I can mention, that makes avatar an obsolete example.

Plus 3D doesn't increase the cost of a game, because you just need z-depth which is only a few extra lines of code (look at the GameCube games which all have z-depth, which means you can convert 2D to 3D when playing GameCube games, but don't try is with PS2 games because they look like flat pieces of cardboard with space in between when you convert 2D into 3D). It's the hardware that does the real work, and in e case of Nintendo' well Nintendo does all the work for more depth in newly release 3DS games, which is the only reason why new 3rd party games also have way more extreme 3D.

Plus the 3D camera to take 3D photos & videos really do appeal to a lot of people as another reason to get a 3DS which speeds up sales...as well as increase life time sale by a fair amount for overall lifetime sales.

The ability to stream Netflix & Hulu Plus 3D streaming videos (when they get them, because there are way too many 3D movies each year and growing), and to purchase full 3D movies which this one thing is coming in the next 12 months, will increase overall audience making the sales more greater since some people will buy it just for that features even if it was priced at $250, especially buy the 3DS XL for these features only. And the glasses-free 3D makes a big difference to a lot of people who want 3D, but only if it's glasses-free (there are surprisingly so many people like this).

So the 3D feature seems like its going to be big all by itself once the full 3D Movies come in any form to watch on the 3DS. And I know quite a bit of people who only bought the Nintendo 3DS to take 3D photos and/or record 3D videos only. And I'm in Los Angeles County which has a gigantic population within itself and i constantly travel from santa monica to Westwood to century city to slauson swapmeet to Downtown LA to MacArthur park to South Central to Korean town and so fort for purchasing certain things, and other certain things at a great discount like particular YugiOh cards and pretty cheap at that...as well as actually good looking cloths that are the opposite of what is sold at the GAP & Old Navy, because the gap & old navy sells ugly cloths, LOL but true.

 Umm, Avatar isn't an obsolete example because it's old.  If someone were to claim that they could fly (w/o any technology) and I were to say Isaac Newton couldn't fly, would that be an obsolete example?  If Avatar is an obsolete example, why is it the biggest boxoffice movie ever?  $2.7  billion vs $1.2 billion for Iron Man 3(which is the biggest grossing 3D movie this year.)  

3D is a selling point, it's like icing.  Have you heard that phrase?  It's like icing on a cake.  It means "something good that is added to another good thing".  On it's own it's not a selling point.  With a great device, yes it's a huge selling point.  

I saw a 3D movie just recently, I don't see how you think it is the biggest thing ever.  It's very cool and all, but it's not something that I need to have.  It's the games that are keeping the Vita out.  The Vita is selling very well in Japan.  Do you know why?  (Hint they didn't add 3D.)  They gave it a price drop and actually released some games.  Now it's actually doing semi - respectable numbers.  

Over 17,000 vs. the 3DS over 67,000 isn't that much if you take in the fact that the old PS3 is selling over 10,000 in Japan, and oddness matters in Japanese sales.

As I was trying to say 3D is icing for most adults, but is a selling fact to a lot of kids right now. Here are some adults who bought the 3DS just for the 3D camera.

3D will be a selling factor to a lot of adults once the full 3D movies comes to the 3DS in any form.