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Forums - Gaming - Anti-used gaming policy is good for gamers.

Since the majority of posts in this thread are entirely unhelpful: no, it isn't.

Firstly, you have the right to sell any physical copy of something you have bought. This is true of objects far more expensive to manufacture than a single copy of a video game: electronics, cars, private jets, cruise ships, and so on. People don't complain about the App Store because:

a) You have bought a digital product, not a physical one.

b) It cost almost no money to purchase.

Those two things are true, to a lesser extent, for Steam.

Secondly, someone on a tight budget is not going to be willing to spend as much on games if they don't think they will ever get any money out of it afterwards. Consider that you buy a game for $60, thinking that you can resell it for $20, and you will have paid only $40 for the game. At that price point, you will be more willing to buy any given game, and may buy more games in general. Microsoft could, of course, cut out the middleman and just cut the MSRP to $40, but that would require the agreement of retailers and publishers and so on, so it's a more difficult solution. Plus, this way anyone who wants to "spend that extra $20" as such and keep the game gives the full $60 to Microsoft/the devs/the retailer/etc.

Thirdly, you've seen the backlash whenever anyone tries a policy of this sort, and that kind of publicity will not help sales.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

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All that this thread means is: I love Xbox so much that I can take all kind of things MS impose to me.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

thekitchensink said:
I am very tired of reiterating the same counters to these same claims over and over again, but here goes. We do not exist to serve the needs of the developer. They exist to try to please us. It is not our responsibility to manage their business and make up for their inability to properly manage their finances and growth. And yes, they actually are selling us a disc. Unless you're going to try and tell me that when I buy a DVD, I don't own a digital video disc, but a 'license to watch the movie,' which would be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. We never heard a peep from them about disliking the used game market and how it was so amoral until they discovered a way to block it out or take a piece of the pie themselves.

And don't try the excuse that we don't complain when PC games have DRM-no one liked it there either, and it's why PC games get pirated exponentially more often than console games.

The long and short of it: if you don't think what they're doing will affect your buying decision, more power to you. But to try to spin this into anything that can be remotely positive for the consumer--that is just incorrect in every conceivable way.

People didn't like Steam at first, but now it has probably done the most of anything out there to decrease piracy.  The only people who still pirate are the ones who will never pay for it anyways, and are willing to risk using a crack.

If you don't like the price of admission, don't buy the system, don't play the games, and go build your own DRM free console.  Bitch all you want, but voting with your wallet matters, and I bet nobody will give a shit in a year once these consoles get released because it's all talk no action like the COD boycott that did jack.



We all love this industry, we have supported it for so long that it hurts to see it restrict the very community that made them rich and famous. So forgive me for not understanding why we need to give up some of our basic consumer rights and still be okay with it. Surely there are other avenues that they can do, to increase profit and balance the development cost without sacrificing the gamers in the long run.



Carl2291 said:
Maybe if videogame developers didnt think they were working on the next big fucking Hollywood blockbuster, they wouldnt need mediocre games with small fanbases to sell 10 Million units.

The best way to increase profit, would be to actually start making videogames that people want to buy. Gaining consumer trust would be a start.

Stop cloning Call of Duty. Stop putting out unconvincing videogames. Stop developing games for 4-5 Years at a time. Stop putting out overpriced, shitty DLC. Stop putting DLC on the fucking disc. Stop advertising your product as something that it quite clearly isnt. Make a compelling product.

- I'm sorry, but your post is blaringly ignorant.  You say "make a compelling product", that will answer all their problems. That is a complete insult to the hard working developers out there who are doing their best to make a game, but people don't end up liking it. It's much easier said than done. Many game developers are making games to the best of their ability. But as with every source of entertainment, enjoyment is based on personal preference and opinion. For the most part, game developers are making games in which they think would be enjoyable. However, it's hard to really create a gaming experience that everyone will appreciate.

These companies need to stop blaming the consumer and look closer to home for the problems.

There is a reason why the Indie scene is doing so well right now. Its because they release new, good videogames, that dont cost a lot to make... And are worth the price you actually pay. Its controlled development and the likes of EA and Square Enix could learn a thing or two.

- Personally, I've only found a handful of indie games that I actually liked. The reason is, as stated in my argument above,..my personal preference. Indie games just don't appeal to me. I'm addicted to the quality found in AAA games, which consequently makes the games impossible to develop cheaply. AAA games do give you an experience worth the price. It's just that the price to produce those games are more. There's no other way around it.  

 







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youarebadatgames said:
thekitchensink said:
I am very tired of reiterating the same counters to these same claims over and over again, but here goes. We do not exist to serve the needs of the developer. They exist to try to please us. It is not our responsibility to manage their business and make up for their inability to properly manage their finances and growth. And yes, they actually are selling us a disc. Unless you're going to try and tell me that when I buy a DVD, I don't own a digital video disc, but a 'license to watch the movie,' which would be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. We never heard a peep from them about disliking the used game market and how it was so amoral until they discovered a way to block it out or take a piece of the pie themselves.

And don't try the excuse that we don't complain when PC games have DRM-no one liked it there either, and it's why PC games get pirated exponentially more often than console games.

The long and short of it: if you don't think what they're doing will affect your buying decision, more power to you. But to try to spin this into anything that can be remotely positive for the consumer--that is just incorrect in every conceivable way.

People didn't like Steam at first, but now it has probably done the most of anything out there to decrease piracy.  The only people who still pirate are the ones who will never pay for it anyways, and are willing to risk using a crack.

If you don't like the price of admission, don't buy the system, don't play the games, and go build your own DRM free console.  Bitch all you want, but voting with your wallet matters, and I bet nobody will give a shit in a year once these consoles get released because it's all talk no action like the COD boycott that did jack.

Exactly.





I stopped reading when you compared the app store to consoles, digital is not retail. Current gen sold more hardware and software than ever and yet Gamestop reach new highs in profit with used game sales.



20happyballs said:

We all know that with improved graphic fidelity,  the cost to develop a game will also increase. The most obvious way to address this increase in development costs would be to increase the selling price of games. However, many of us would respond badly, myself included. Sure people will still buy games brand new when they are first released, but it is likely that more and more people will start to wait for these games to become cheaper and buy it used. Which means that any increase in revenue brought on by the increased sales price would be offset by gamers waiting to buy games used. 





It's not for the developers because more often than not, just because you're making the game, doesn't mean you are publishing it. In other words, the publishers will make more money and the Devs won't.

If Microsoft came out and said that games would cost 20 dollars less- around 40 to 50 dollars - no used games would be fine as games would become far more accessible. But instead what we get is full priced games and no way to make money by trading them in.

I never buy used games, but I have traded in a few games to buy new games.



crissindahouse said:

maybe consumers should stop asking for always better graphics then? people even complain already that xbox one is too weak and some even say that about ps4. but the same people don't want to pay for those extreme costs developers have because of that. they don't want dlc which wis a way to get the enormous costs back, they don't want drm, they don't want higher game prices. gamers are against everything which could help developers but they still ask for "more power" all the time and already laugh about the possible graphics of xbox one. 

indie games are successful, but how many of them? don't you think for every successful story there are minimum the same amount of people who tried but failed with it? it's not as if we get 5000 indie games and all make a profit. you just don't hear about the indie developers which failed because they are all only a few guys big and nobody will talk about them. 


The general consumer isnt asking for better graphics. Look at Nintendo software for the best possible example here. You dont have to be aiming at the uncanny valley, you have to make it visually appealing. It needs to look good enough to immerse the player.

Call of Duty has been using essentially the same game engine now for the last what, 6 Years? The game isnt visually impressive when you put it next to the likes of Crysis 3, Battlefield 3 and Killzone 3... Yet it sells more copies than all 3 of them combined. If developers stopped focusing on making the game look so life like and focused on gameplay and design, maybe... Just maybe, they might start to see the beneifts.

DLC isnt a bad thing, if the DLC itself is actually worth it. Gamers dont complain about DLC like that. They dont complain about CoD map packs and they dont complain about Dragonborn for Skyrim. What they complain about is Day 1 DLC, which simply shouldnt be there, along with on-disc DLC. The Day 1 DLC on ME3 for example was just shitty.

Thats what is so good about indie development. The risks arent there for the developer and its cheap. If you pull it off, you make it big - Look at Notch. Look at the guys at The Behemoth. A problem with indie development too is that a lot of it tends to be "me too" games. Think of the CoD clone example I gave, only apply it to Minecraft and indies. The Indie scene isnt "heaven", its far from it, but at least the Indie scene isnt full of developers fuelled by the ego.