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Forums - Gaming - Anti-used gaming policy is good for gamers.

the2real4mafol on 08 June 2013

dane007 said:
Secondly gaming is not meant  for everyon. if you can't afford it then its unfortunate (GET OUT, who are you to tell people what to do?!?). i mean people who belong to very low to low socioeconomic category should focus more on how to support themselves and or family instead of gaming. if you are in the middle and can't afford all of it,, then how is it a big loss? if you can't afford it straight away wait til it gets cheap. you don't have to buy it straight away right? -(Didn't you just call these people cheapskates? Ain't you contradictory?!) 

 

Well why should the gaming industry be yet another thing that poorer people are priced out of? There is no need for a game to cost over $5 million to make. You don't here such problems on mobile games or handheld games do you? Not only are they cheaper to buy but they are so much cheaper to make too. In fact, i remember hearing that Nintendo DS games could sell only 250,000 units and make a profit. Also, why is it the gamers fault? They don't set the price, that's up to a retailer. Also, don't you think we already support good developers? They would of gone bankrupt otherwise. While, games like uncharted and halo are so well recieved because of their gameplay and they only happen to have top of the range graphics. If they weren't supported they would of not got sequels. Also, graphics are clearly not everything, i mean why would Minecraft or Call of Duty be so popular, the graphics are not worth talking about in either game. Also, learn how to spell.     



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superchunk on 08 June 2013
dane007 said:
superchunk said:
Pubs and revs will not.....NOT make more money due to this. Overall games sales will decline as people have less money to buy new games.


Is it necessary to buy every game? if thats the cse games prices will drop quicker right?

No there will be a contraction on the market as pubs take less risks and all we're left with are the yearly iterations of crap. Being able to resell or buy cheap used allows you to risk that money a buy a game you know nothing about.



Kantor on 08 June 2013
kowenicki said:
Kantor said:
kowenicki said:

 

Second: The tight budget argument part is bogus.  People on a tight budget can't do lots of things... such is life.

Third: Why is that a consumers problem?

 

 

Well then, you are restricting your potential userbase to people with plenty of money. It's not going to affect you, but it will affect many people.

If you say so. 

Not sure the loss of a gamer who only buys used games is such a big loss to the industry to be honest... its actually no loss at all.

What will that gamer do when we are totally digital?

You evidently didn't read my post, so: they are not concerned with the gamer who buys used games. They are concerned with the gamer who feels that the value of his purchase is lessened because he can't sell his games on and recoup some of his investment.

As for what the gamer will do when things are digital, I imagine he'll either move to PC, where games are considerably cheaper, or to PlayStation, where he can pay £4 per month and get PS+.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Muffin31190 on 08 June 2013
dane007 said:
the2real4mafol said:

How can anyone support this abomination? You couldn't be more wrong, developers make millions of dollars making their games, it's not my fault if they spend too much on developing their games so they can't sustain a decent profit, why should i suffer for it? I mean how hard is it to keep the budget low and still make a decent game? Indie developers can and have made some of the best games on thousands not millions of dollars. You don't throw money at a creator and get innovation, you require good ideas. Money is only needed in a huge quantity to get good graphics, which to be frank don't need to get any better now. Game development itself should be about gameplay first and graphics later.

And you say developers must do this to make more money, but NO NO THEY DON'T. In fact blocking second hand games we only kill off this industry and fewer new IPs will happen as less people will be able to afford to play those games, reducing revenue for gaming shops, developers and publishers. Also, who are you to say we can't sell what we are finished with? This is pure greed, greed that will destroy my favourite hobby and we have every right to bash these policies until they are dead. I'm still amazed and very angry that anyone could support this.

But to me this is not about bashing the Xbox, it's about making it clear what companies can and can't do with their many loyal customers. If this measure becomes common place in the industry, i foresee a 2nd video game crash happening in a few years

RANT OVER

Tell that to millions who praise games like halo 4, metro, uncarted series, god of war and so on. The thing is why should gamers  suffer and not get good graphics f gamers are too cheapsakte to pay fro full price and rely on borrowing games  from friends.  If more peopel bought teh game rather then lending games from friends nad not pay for it then the less chance of this happening.  B locking gamers whi are too cheap to pay for full price game is good. i hope it works out well. its time we support good developers for their hard work as too many this gen got closed . Secondly gaming is not meant  for everyon. if you can't afford it then its unfortunate. i mean people who belong to very low to low socioeconomic category should focus more on how to support themselves and or family instead of gaming. if you are in the middle and can't afford all of it,, then how is it a big loss? if you can't afford it straight away wait til it gets cheap. you don't have to buy it straight away right?

1st of all next time read what you type before you post it ...

2nd, the2real4mafol  is correct in what they say that there will be millions of gamers that will stop playing because of this DRM and could possibly lead to a Crash.

And 3rd i'm sry but WHO THE HELL are you to say who should game and who shouldnt just because of a certain "socioeconomic" class, that shouldn't exclude them from the gaming experiences that we all enjoy, now I understand that if I don't make as much I won't be able to enjoy as much as someone earns more money but NO ONE should be excluded from gaming because of there economic backround. I dont get it, that's one thing gaming has always been about, and that is no matter what facet of life we come from we can atleast enjoy a Damn Good Game, and maybe you dont see it but EVERY console company wants everyone from all reaches of the world weather it be Rich or Poor to buy their Console.



AnthonyW86 on 08 June 2013

Used game sales aren't bad for the industry, but retailers selling used games definitely are. They actively push used games over new ones because they get a bigger profit of them. Also you get less money for your used game and pay more if you buy it there.



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Talal on 08 June 2013
JWeinCom said:
We accept the fact that digital content is not eligible for resale because of the way the technology works. The ease of distribution makes it so that it would be too easy to distribute games far and wide to thousands of people without losing access to the content yourself. With physical discs, their is no reason to have this restriction. The lack of such restriction is the reason that I buy games on consoles and not on a PC.

As for entertainment experience ummmm, so? Books are an entertainment experience and I could sell those. CDs are an entertainment experience. Movies are an entertainment experience. When I gave my friend a copy of 1984 I didn't have to write a check to George Orwell.

As for game companies needing a way to make a profit, I have an idea. Make good games. Take a look at the weekly sales charts. Just Dance 4 is still up there after 34 weeks. Arkham City is up there after well over a year. Red Dead Redemption is selling well over 3 years after its release. Mario Kart Wii is the 26th best selling game this week, and it's been available for over 5 years and it still retailing for $40! Why are these games still selling? Because people enjoy them. People enjoy them enough that they tell their friends about them, they enjoy them enough that they'll buy them years after original release (in the case of Mario Kart at near full price), and they enjoy them enough that they keep them so that the demand for new games outstrips the supply for old games.


Great post.



JWeinCom on 08 June 2013
dane007 said:
Serious_frusting said:
20happyballs said:
Serious_frusting said:
Everyone who owns a tv is not to let anyone else watch it, because tv companies are losing money so to gain profits a tv should be sold for every personal experience.

Oh, when you have a bluray or dvd remember not to lend it to someone or let they watch it because its anti director. What a load of crap.


The policy still allows you to share with family and friends. Its just reselling that is blocked. And besides, you didn't even address the main point of my post.


Which was what exactly?

How do you share? 


Its funny to read peopels post bashing anti used policy on cusumers and how we own teh game when we buy it. Most of you don't r realise that none of us really own the game we purchase. You own only the license to play it.  Thi s kind of thing have beebn happening for a very long time and it even happens on ps3 games. heres  one prOof from sony exclusive Resistance 2. qUOTE " Here is an extract from Sony's EULA for Resistance 2 (http://us.playstation.com/games/useragreement/resistance-2-ps3.html):

GRANT OF LICENSE. SCEA grants you a non-exclusive right to use this software for personal, non-commercial play on a PlayStation® computer entertainment system only. You may not (i) rent, lease or sublicense the software, (ii) modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, (iii) attempt to create the source code from the object code for the software, or (iv) download game content for any purpose other than game play. You have no proprietary rights in any game content including game play statistics. SCEA may modify such content at any time for any reason. This software may include time and use restrictions. For time and use restrictions regarding this software, visit www.us.playstation.com/support/useragreement." The only difference this time around the publishers and developer are havign a close watch because of piracy. Yes it is piracy when you lend your license to yoru friend who refuses to pay for a gme and reaps the benefits of palying the entire sp campaign and then multiplayer. You want to play buy the game . Can't affordit, wait til it drops. not hard right? Forgot Steam incoporates similar policy to Used Game adn RM. Games on steam at the start are at tiems more expensive then retail stores. Its not as cheap as peopel make it sound like and some games youa re forced to launch it throught steam and be online like metro 2033

So, can I sell Resistance 2?  Can I give it to a friend?  Can I play it without connecting to the internet every 24 hours?  Can I play it without ever connecting to the internet at all?  Can I sell it on ebay?  Can I loan it to someone and get it back? Can I play it wherever and whenever I want and give it to whoever I want?  Yes on all fronts.  You can argue technicalities all you want, but the bottom line is I could do whatever I want with Killzone 2 so for all practical purposes I own it.  Furthermore, EULAs are not binding in many cases. 



richardhutnik on 08 June 2013
AnthonyW86 said:
Used game sales aren't bad for the industry, but retailers selling used games definitely are. They actively push used games over new ones because they get a bigger profit of them. Also you get less money for your used game and pay more if you buy it there.

TotalBiscuit goes into here why the retailers are ruining things by actively pushing used version of games over new:

In this case, you have the likes of Gamestop ruining things for everyone.  He has points here.  I FULLY disagree with him that getting rid of used games will somehow cause the price of new games to drop.  

I will also add that NO ONE outside of the publisher owns a game.  People own a LICENSE to use a game.  But the game is not owned.  People also own a disk or something else the game comes on.  



dane007 on 08 June 2013
JWeinCom said:
dane007 said:
Serious_frusting said:
20happyballs said:
Serious_frusting said:
Everyone who owns a tv is not to let anyone else watch it, because tv companies are losing money so to gain profits a tv should be sold for every personal experience.

Oh, when you have a bluray or dvd remember not to lend it to someone or let they watch it because its anti director. What a load of crap.


The policy still allows you to share with family and friends. Its just reselling that is blocked. And besides, you didn't even address the main point of my post.


Which was what exactly?

How do you share? 


Its funny to read peopels post bashing anti used policy on cusumers and how we own teh game when we buy it. Most of you don't r realise that none of us really own the game we purchase. You own only the license to play it.  Thi s kind of thing have beebn happening for a very long time and it even happens on ps3 games. heres  one prOof from sony exclusive Resistance 2. qUOTE " Here is an extract from Sony's EULA for Resistance 2 (http://us.playstation.com/games/useragreement/resistance-2-ps3.html):

GRANT OF LICENSE. SCEA grants you a non-exclusive right to use this software for personal, non-commercial play on a PlayStation® computer entertainment system only. You may not (i) rent, lease or sublicense the software, (ii) modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, (iii) attempt to create the source code from the object code for the software, or (iv) download game content for any purpose other than game play. You have no proprietary rights in any game content including game play statistics. SCEA may modify such content at any time for any reason. This software may include time and use restrictions. For time and use restrictions regarding this software, visit www.us.playstation.com/support/useragreement." The only difference this time around the publishers and developer are havign a close watch because of piracy. Yes it is piracy when you lend your license to yoru friend who refuses to pay for a gme and reaps the benefits of palying the entire sp campaign and then multiplayer. You want to play buy the game . Can't affordit, wait til it drops. not hard right? Forgot Steam incoporates similar policy to Used Game adn RM. Games on steam at the start are at tiems more expensive then retail stores. Its not as cheap as peopel make it sound like and some games youa re forced to launch it throught steam and be online like metro 2033

So, can I sell Resistance 2?  Can I give it to a friend?  Can I play it without connecting to the internet every 24 hours?  Can I play it without ever connecting to the internet at all?  Can I sell it on ebay?  Can I loan it to someone and get it back? Can I play it wherever and whenever I want and give it to whoever I want?  Yes on all fronts.  You can argue technicalities all you want, but the bottom line is I could do whatever I want with Killzone 2 so for all practical purposes I own it.  Furthermore, EULAs are not binding in many cases. 

LOL and because of the very facts you mentioned is the reason why policy like MS and sony (probably) will be implemented this gen. if people actually bought games instead of leaching then non of this would happen.



Zero999 on 08 June 2013

"Developers are not selling discs, they are selling entertainment experiences. It's only right that they be able to charge per experience given"

if i buy a game, i buy the right to ply it so it belongs to me. if i sell/give it, i can no longer play it, only the new owner. you can't expect developers to get money from the sales of a product that is no longer theirs.