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Forums - Gaming - Anti-used gaming policy is good for gamers.

"Developers are not selling discs, they are selling entertainment experiences. It's only right that they be able to charge per experience given"

So what you're saying is that we no longer are paying money to actually purchase a game. Rather we are spending 60 (or likely 70 dollars for this generation) for an extended rental. If this is the case count me out.



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the2real4mafol said:

dane007 said:
Secondly gaming is not meant  for everyon. if you can't afford it then its unfortunate (GET OUT, who are you to tell people what to do?!?). i mean people who belong to very low to low socioeconomic category should focus more on how to support themselves and or family instead of gaming. if you are in the middle and can't afford all of it,, then how is it a big loss? if you can't afford it straight away wait til it gets cheap. you don't have to buy it straight away right? -(Didn't you just call these people cheapskates? Ain't you contradictory?!) 

 Buying game thats its new but at a discount is not cheap skates. Borrowing your friends game and finishing their game and then using to play multiplayer without having to pay any money for it  is being cheapskates. Know the difference.  Its true,, why woudl a really poor person who can't afford the basic necessity be worried about gaming? That would be their alast thing to worry about as beign able to afford the necessities is more important,, so yes it not for evreyone. Hence why its called a hobby,, if you can afford then its great but if you can't then its unfortunate. 

Well why should the gaming industry be yet another thing that poorer people are priced out of? There is no need for a game to cost over $5 million to make. You don't here such problems on mobile games or handheld games do you? Not only are they cheaper to buy but they are so much cheaper to make too. In fact, i remember hearing that Nintendo DS games could sell only 250,000 units and make a profit. Also, why is it the gamers fault? They don't set the price, that's up to a retailer. Also, don't you think we already support good developers? They would of gone bankrupt otherwise. While, games like uncharted and halo are so well recieved because of their gameplay and they only happen to have top of the range graphics. If they weren't supported they would of not got sequels. Also, graphics are clearly not everything, i mean why would Minecraft or Call of Duty be so popular, the graphics are not worth talking about in either game. Also, learn how to spell.     

Haha you lost respect when you compared a first party and third AAA with mobile 1 dollar games. You can't be comapring temple run series, 4 pics one word, Epic swipe game, angry birds,  and many other games liek that to halo 4, uncharted series, God of war, tomb raider, TLOU, Heavy Rain and more. You sir desevr award for being a comedian :). The games made for mobile games are for casuals and we all know casuals don't play alot and wouldn't care or even know teh difference between  a good and bad games. Games you get on handheld like DS and experiences are different. these were made for on the go. you would not get uncharted games on DS. Not really, good games like Project gotham compan ygot closed and it was a good game, Enslaved didn't do well, Lost odyseey didn't sell well despite it beign an awesome JRPGS.  Well Uncharted woild get better sales if everyone bought it and wasn't allowed to leach right?  Don't get why people liek minecraft as its very reptitive gameplay  and as for COD that game is and FPS for teenage casuals ,, no offence to those who like it. I have played them all for achievement points. The thign why should gamers not progress with technology and move forward with graphics just because gamers who are stingy to pay for games suffer? Even to get better gameplay ,, you need better ai , more dynamic landscape all that cost money as machne gets more powerful budget will go up. Actually mine craft with mods looks quite nice. Oh i can spell, but i am too tired to check. if you can understand me then its good enough for me. rme. 
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Muffin31190 said:
dane007 said:
the2real4mafol said:

How can anyone support this abomination? You couldn't be more wrong, developers make millions of dollars making their games, it's not my fault if they spend too much on developing their games so they can't sustain a decent profit, why should i suffer for it? I mean how hard is it to keep the budget low and still make a decent game? Indie developers can and have made some of the best games on thousands not millions of dollars. You don't throw money at a creator and get innovation, you require good ideas. Money is only needed in a huge quantity to get good graphics, which to be frank don't need to get any better now. Game development itself should be about gameplay first and graphics later.

And you say developers must do this to make more money, but NO NO THEY DON'T. In fact blocking second hand games we only kill off this industry and fewer new IPs will happen as less people will be able to afford to play those games, reducing revenue for gaming shops, developers and publishers. Also, who are you to say we can't sell what we are finished with? This is pure greed, greed that will destroy my favourite hobby and we have every right to bash these policies until they are dead. I'm still amazed and very angry that anyone could support this.

But to me this is not about bashing the Xbox, it's about making it clear what companies can and can't do with their many loyal customers. If this measure becomes common place in the industry, i foresee a 2nd video game crash happening in a few years

RANT OVER

Tell that to millions who praise games like halo 4, metro, uncarted series, god of war and so on. The thing is why should gamers  suffer and not get good graphics f gamers are too cheapsakte to pay fro full price and rely on borrowing games  from friends.  If more peopel bought teh game rather then lending games from friends nad not pay for it then the less chance of this happening.  B locking gamers whi are too cheap to pay for full price game is good. i hope it works out well. its time we support good developers for their hard work as too many this gen got closed . Secondly gaming is not meant  for everyon. if you can't afford it then its unfortunate. i mean people who belong to very low to low socioeconomic category should focus more on how to support themselves and or family instead of gaming. if you are in the middle and can't afford all of it,, then how is it a big loss? if you can't afford it straight away wait til it gets cheap. you don't have to buy it straight away right?

1st of all next time read what you type before you post it ...

2nd, the2real4mafol  is correct in what they say that there will be millions of gamers that will stop playing because of this DRM and could possibly lead to a Crash.

And 3rd i'm sry but WHO THE HELL are you to say who should game and who shouldnt just because of a certain "
socioeconomic" class, that shouldn't exclude them from the gaming experiences that we all enjoy, now I understand that if I don't make as much I won't be able to enjoy as much as someone earns more money but NO ONE should be excluded from gaming because of there economic backround. I dont get it, that's one thing gaming has always been about, and that is no matter what facet of life we come from we can atleast enjoy a Damn Good Game, and maybe you dont see it but EVERY console company wants everyone from all reaches of the world weather it be Rich or Poor to buy their Console.

Oh i did read it and i wanted to post that. I could have corrected  my spelling typos. 

"And 3rd i'm sry but WHO THE HELL are you to say who should game and who shouldnt just because of a certain "socioeconomic" class, that shouldn't exclude them from the gaming experiences that we all enjoy, now I understand that if I don't make as much I won't be able to enjoy as much as someone earns more money but NO ONE should be excluded from gaming because of there economic backround" 

 

Are you telling me that peopel who can't afford the basic necessities in life wold think of gaming? You sure about that lol. What i am trying to say that peoeple who can't afford to ea t, drink , who live pay cheque by cheque would not have gamin on their priorites list. They woudl focuse on how to support themseles , fmaily , childrens education adn so on. Piracy if kept on going would have killed gaming in tghe long run. Its simple if you lend a friend to finish the sp cmapaign and then play the multilayr then its one loss of slae, you multiple by nillions of peopel whoho do that--- well you can do th emath as to how much dmage it does to companies. The DRM is to prevent doing that. Its time gamers pay games at full price or if not wait till it get discounted.. Used and second hand games should not exist



dane007 said:

Oh i did read it and i wanted to post that. I could have corrected  my spelling typos. 

"And 3rd i'm sry but WHO THE HELL are you to say who should game and who shouldnt just because of a certain "socioeconomic" class, that shouldn't exclude them from the gaming experiences that we all enjoy, now I understand that if I don't make as much I won't be able to enjoy as much as someone earns more money but NO ONE should be excluded from gaming because of there economic backround" 

 

Are you telling me that peopel who can't afford the basic necessities in life wold think of gaming? You sure about that lol. What i am trying to say that peoeple who can't afford to ea t, drink , who live pay cheque by cheque would not have gamin on their priorites list. They woudl focuse on how to support themseles , fmaily , childrens education adn so on. Piracy if kept on going would have killed gaming in tghe long run. Its simple if you lend a friend to finish the sp cmapaign and then play the multilayr then its one loss of slae, you multiple by nillions of peopel whoho do that--- well you can do th emath as to how much dmage it does to companies. The DRM is to prevent doing that. Its time gamers pay games at full price or if not wait till it get discounted.. Used and second hand games should not exist

kk well i can barely understand you, and im guessing English is not your first language. Your logic is faulted with the whole piracy idea because guess what ever since there have been video games there has been piracy and guess what .... Piracy hasnt killed the industry *gasp*. And when you have Developers In the Gaming Industry openly going against DRM then i think we realize that it is all about GREED and not about Surviving Piracy. Also i think the average Human knows where their Priorities lie such as family, education, and for themselves to live, The way you stated it made it sound like Poor people have no buisness in gaming.

And just one more fault in your Logic, I BORROWED the game called Metal Gear Solid and guess what? I loved it so you know what I did, I bought every Metal Gear Game Since, but if I never would have borrowed that game then guess what? I would have never Spent the Hundreds of dollars I have on that series.



I think its pretty clear the OP was one of the people hired by Microsoft to create positivity and defence of their policies



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In a sense, can you not argue the same thing for other markets?

- Anti-Used Car Sales policy is good for drivers.
Reasons: Car companies like GM is doing bad and losing money, they need the profits from used car sales to be competitive and to give us what we want. We WANT the latest technology, the new models, the best deals but it's hurting the industry. Why do you think we aren't seeing new models but small changes to their current models. These companies are not selling physical cars, they are selling an entertainment experience of BEING in a car and convenience. Remember driving is a privilege.

Yes, not a perfect comparison but imagine if it comes to that point. I am sure people will defend the car companies just like you are.

1) If you want to make it like the app store or steam... then be a true form of it. Don't make a hybrid form that doesn't have the full advantage of the digital stores like app stores or steam.
a) Advantage of steam that isn't in the xbox (as far as I know):
1. Some steam games can be played off-line far longer than 24 hr check-in.
2. The price/sales of Steam doesn't compare to digital downloads prices on XBL
3. Investment. I can play on my current PC, and even if I upgrade. If I upgrade to xbox2, will it be playable?

For example: If I bought a FULL price of a car, I CAN do what I want. BUT, if I lease my car from the dealer, I know my limitations. But the prices of FULL price vs. the cost of LEASING, makes it feasible for me to give up that right. In that sense, I buy a digital download for a CHEAPER price or even FREE digitally, because I am willing to give up the some rights to ENJOY the experience for fractions of a cost. Now, if I pay FULL price, $60, I want to have rights to do what I want without breaking copyrights laws.

If I am BORROWING the license to play a game, shouldn't games be based on "renting prices"? Do I need to buy a license to sell JUST the product I bought? If I buy a heart monitor for my father, does that product have their own license? YES. But I can still sell it because as long as I don't infringe on copyrights law, I BOUGHT the product. What is this non-sense?

Maybe the developers like GM, are in a bad state because they made crappy products. Don't BLAME the customers. I see this type of mentality in ALL gaming forums. "Well, customers have right" / "Yes, but gaming industry is different". It's this attitude of 'suck it up" or don't play. Hmm, maybe PEOPLE are actually doing that ....."not playing-->not buying" Oh, I do see the problem, people like you always allow the industry to have too many SPECIAL excuses.

CUSTOMER RELATIONSHIP & RELIABLE PRODUCTS will keep the gaming industry going... just like any business. Let the XBOX PR, defend themselves, we are our own PR.



dane007 said:
JWeinCom said:
dane007 said:
Serious_frusting said:
20happyballs said:
Serious_frusting said:
Everyone who owns a tv is not to let anyone else watch it, because tv companies are losing money so to gain profits a tv should be sold for every personal experience.

Oh, when you have a bluray or dvd remember not to lend it to someone or let they watch it because its anti director. What a load of crap.


The policy still allows you to share with family and friends. Its just reselling that is blocked. And besides, you didn't even address the main point of my post.


Which was what exactly?

How do you share? 


Its funny to read peopels post bashing anti used policy on cusumers and how we own teh game when we buy it. Most of you don't r realise that none of us really own the game we purchase. You own only the license to play it.  Thi s kind of thing have beebn happening for a very long time and it even happens on ps3 games. heres  one prOof from sony exclusive Resistance 2. qUOTE " Here is an extract from Sony's EULA for Resistance 2 (http://us.playstation.com/games/useragreement/resistance-2-ps3.html):

GRANT OF LICENSE. SCEA grants you a non-exclusive right to use this software for personal, non-commercial play on a PlayStation® computer entertainment system only. You may not (i) rent, lease or sublicense the software, (ii) modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, (iii) attempt to create the source code from the object code for the software, or (iv) download game content for any purpose other than game play. You have no proprietary rights in any game content including game play statistics. SCEA may modify such content at any time for any reason. This software may include time and use restrictions. For time and use restrictions regarding this software, visit www.us.playstation.com/support/useragreement." The only difference this time around the publishers and developer are havign a close watch because of piracy. Yes it is piracy when you lend your license to yoru friend who refuses to pay for a gme and reaps the benefits of palying the entire sp campaign and then multiplayer. You want to play buy the game . Can't affordit, wait til it drops. not hard right? Forgot Steam incoporates similar policy to Used Game adn RM. Games on steam at the start are at tiems more expensive then retail stores. Its not as cheap as peopel make it sound like and some games youa re forced to launch it throught steam and be online like metro 2033

So, can I sell Resistance 2?  Can I give it to a friend?  Can I play it without connecting to the internet every 24 hours?  Can I play it without ever connecting to the internet at all?  Can I sell it on ebay?  Can I loan it to someone and get it back? Can I play it wherever and whenever I want and give it to whoever I want?  Yes on all fronts.  You can argue technicalities all you want, but the bottom line is I could do whatever I want with Killzone 2 so for all practical purposes I own it.  Furthermore, EULAs are not binding in many cases. 

LOL and because of the very facts you mentioned is the reason why policy like MS and sony (probably) will be implemented this gen. if people actually bought games instead of leaching then non of this would happen.


Rules of trolling:

If argument falls apart, change argument completely.  Repeat as necessary.   Throw in an lol.



I have a feeling this topic is made to troll and nothing more. Because it can't be serious.



richardhutnik said:
AnthonyW86 said:
Used game sales aren't bad for the industry, but retailers selling used games definitely are. They actively push used games over new ones because they get a bigger profit of them. Also you get less money for your used game and pay more if you buy it there.

TotalBiscuit goes into here why the retailers are ruining things by actively pushing used version of games over new:

In this case, you have the likes of Gamestop ruining things for everyone.  He has points here.  I FULLY disagree with him that getting rid of used games will somehow cause the price of new games to drop.  

I will also add that NO ONE outside of the publisher owns a game.  People own a LICENSE to use a game.  But the game is not owned.  People also own a disk or something else the game comes on.  


Gamestop's business model certainly is a problem.  However, punishing the average Joe consumer to deal with Gamestop is an exceedingly poor decision.



superchunk said:
dane007 said:
superchunk said:
Pubs and revs will not.....NOT make more money due to this. Overall games sales will decline as people have less money to buy new games.


Is it necessary to buy every game? if thats the cse games prices will drop quicker right?

No there will be a contraction on the market as pubs take less risks and all we're left with are the yearly iterations of crap. Being able to resell or buy cheap used allows you to risk that money a buy a game you know nothing about.

Not to mention if people are buying less games new, which they will and waiting for price drops, then the publishers are jsut going to be back to the damn drawing board, becasue they will be making less money on each game sold. Wonder who they will blame then?