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Forums - Microsoft - "It as unlikely that GameStop will agree" to Xbox One pre-owned fees

Munkeh111 said:
Gamestop is not going to cope with 2/3 of its sales gone. Gamestop is not the only retailer in the US and it is only a matter of time before they dissapear, why would you not just buy it from Amazon?

When did I suggest that Gamestop would stop selling Xbox One and PS4 games or systems? I said that they'd give a lot more focus to Wii U.

As for the suggestion that people would buy from Amazon... I'm just going to repeat something I already said: "Believe me when I say that third parties will flock to the Wii U if the public rejects the other systems to that level"

In other words, I'm talking about a situation where Sony and MS are already fighting an uphill battle due to the decision to go with such draconian DRM system-wide (whether publishers have to opt-in is irrelevant). In this hypothetical situation, the public aren't going to go and buy from Amazon rather than Gamestop moreso than they currently do, just because Gamestop put more emphasis on Wii U.



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Aielyn said:
Munkeh111 said:
Gamestop is not going to cope with 2/3 of its sales gone. Gamestop is not the only retailer in the US and it is only a matter of time before they dissapear, why would you not just buy it from Amazon?

When did I suggest that Gamestop would stop selling Xbox One and PS4 games or systems? I said that they'd give a lot more focus to Wii U.

As for the suggestion that people would buy from Amazon... I'm just going to repeat something I already said: "Believe me when I say that third parties will flock to the Wii U if the public rejects the other systems to that level"

In other words, I'm talking about a situation where Sony and MS are already fighting an uphill battle due to the decision to go with such draconian DRM system-wide (whether publishers have to opt-in is irrelevant). In this hypothetical situation, the public aren't going to go and buy from Amazon rather than Gamestop moreso than they currently do, just because Gamestop put more emphasis on Wii U.

If Gamestop can't make an agreement, then they lose most of their profitability as they won't be able to sell used games. The only way that they can make a stand is just to not stock Xbox One stuff, I don't see what else they can do to make a stand.

People aren't interested in the Wii U, they might get more interested in the Wii U, but I think more people will just keep with their PS3/360 or just play on stupid tablets



kowenicki said:

Is hyperbole a hobby on this forum now.

It did not send it "tumbling like crazy"  It dropped and has recoverd slightly.

Thats a massive exaggeration.


It nose dived what, 19% during the week of Xbox One reveal? No matter how much you try to butter it up. No matter how much you try to make it sound like a non-issue. It wont work.

19% for the week, 11% for the day MCV broke the "news".

Im sorry, but that looks like a tumble to me It may have bounced back, but at the time I specifically mentioned, it wasnt pretty.



                            

Munkeh111 said:
If Gamestop can't make an agreement, then they lose most of their profitability as they won't be able to sell used games. The only way that they can make a stand is just to not stock Xbox One stuff, I don't see what else they can do to make a stand.

People aren't interested in the Wii U, they might get more interested in the Wii U, but I think more people will just keep with their PS3/360 or just play on stupid tablets

Again, it's not about Gamestop "making an agreement" or not, but about them "yielding". Here are their options as I see it, assuming that Sony goes the same route as MS:

1. Give in, sign up to the used game system, go all-in on it, and die a slow lingering death as used game sales profit all gets funnelled to MS/Sony and third parties, with Gamestop getting a tiny cut.

2. Get some sort of extra concession out of Sony and MS to make sure that they get a bigger cut of the revenue, in which case we're sure to see higher game prices, which will probably again result in Gamestop dying a slow lingering death as they end up being undercut by retailers who don't depend on gaming to make a profit.

3. Refuse to sign up, and simply push ahead, resulting in Gamestop dying a slow lingering death.

4. Create a deal with Nintendo that sees Nintendo systems given priority and special deals done, resulting in bigger cuts for Gamestop on new games as well as getting most of the original cut of used game sales. This is the only situation in which I see Gamestop surviving.

So tell me - if you were Gamestop, which choice would you make? Or do you see a different option for them?



Aielyn said:
Munkeh111 said:
If Gamestop can't make an agreement, then they lose most of their profitability as they won't be able to sell used games. The only way that they can make a stand is just to not stock Xbox One stuff, I don't see what else they can do to make a stand.

People aren't interested in the Wii U, they might get more interested in the Wii U, but I think more people will just keep with their PS3/360 or just play on stupid tablets

Again, it's not about Gamestop "making an agreement" or not, but about them "yielding". Here are their options as I see it, assuming that Sony goes the same route as MS:

1. Give in, sign up to the used game system, go all-in on it, and die a slow lingering death as used game sales profit all gets funnelled to MS/Sony and third parties, with Gamestop getting a tiny cut.

2. Get some sort of extra concession out of Sony and MS to make sure that they get a bigger cut of the revenue, in which case we're sure to see higher game prices, which will probably again result in Gamestop dying a slow lingering death as they end up being undercut by retailers who don't depend on gaming to make a profit.

3. Refuse to sign up, and simply push ahead, resulting in Gamestop dying a slow lingering death.

4. Create a deal with Nintendo that sees Nintendo systems given priority and special deals done, resulting in bigger cuts for Gamestop on new games as well as getting most of the original cut of used game sales. This is the only situation in which I see Gamestop surviving.

So tell me - if you were Gamestop, which choice would you make? Or do you see a different option for them?

I would do what they are doing, branching out into digital downloads, they bought Impulse a while ago

I think you are possibly simplifying the problem. The fundamental problem is that consoles are threatened, sales are down across the board. So far the Wii U has failed to excite consumers and I don't see it as being enough to save gamestop in its current state even if the games do come and get consumers interested again.

The problem is, it is just not clear what Sony and Microsoft's demands are, or if it is really the publishers. I think there are too many unknowns to make a proper prediction



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My guess is that EA wants no used games, so you'll have to be online no matter what for both systems to play. But if it's another publisher who doesn't require its games to be blocked, then Sony won't require you to be online, and used games are safe, but with Microsoft, this stuff is required?



Munkeh111 said:
I would do what they are doing, branching out into digital downloads, they bought Impulse a while ago

I think you are possibly simplifying the problem. The fundamental problem is that consoles are threatened, sales are down across the board. So far the Wii U has failed to excite consumers and I don't see it as being enough to save gamestop in its current state even if the games do come and get consumers interested again.

The problem is, it is just not clear what Sony and Microsoft's demands are, or if it is really the publishers. I think there are too many unknowns to make a proper prediction

I really don't see how "branching out into digital downloads" would help at all - all of the contexts where digital downloads can be done, you can do them directly rather than through Gamestop already. The only way I see such "branching out" working is if they set up a true Steam competitor. That means not just another distribution platform (Steam already does that more than well enough), but something that establishes value over Steam by doing something more. I just don't see it happening.

And you're right that I'm simplifying the problem. When you don't have all of the information necessary to do a perfect analysis, you make simplifying assumptions to make the problem more tractable. This is one of the key methods of mathematical modelling, and it works just as well in any other field where modelling and speculation are required. It's standard, as far as I know, in economical modelling, for instance. So let's establish exactly what I'm assuming:

1. The public isn't particularly enamoured by the idea of the PS4 and XBO having such DRM, and will (assuming they have it, of course) see slower sales than they otherwise would have.
2. Gamestop wishes to stay in the retail video gaming business.
3. Nintendo are not changing their current plans, DRM will not be present on the Wii U or 3DS in any such form.
4. Gamestop makes most of its profits from used game sales due to relatively small retail margins on new games.
5. Videogaming isn't in a decline, it's in a temporarily suppressed state due to a combination of economic climate and increasing game prices.
5b. Current DRM plans from MS and Sony will see game prices at least stay the same, if not rise.

Do you have any problem with any of these simplifying assumptions?



Aielyn said:
Munkeh111 said:
I would do what they are doing, branching out into digital downloads, they bought Impulse a while ago

I think you are possibly simplifying the problem. The fundamental problem is that consoles are threatened, sales are down across the board. So far the Wii U has failed to excite consumers and I don't see it as being enough to save gamestop in its current state even if the games do come and get consumers interested again.

The problem is, it is just not clear what Sony and Microsoft's demands are, or if it is really the publishers. I think there are too many unknowns to make a proper prediction

I really don't see how "branching out into digital downloads" would help at all - all of the contexts where digital downloads can be done, you can do them directly rather than through Gamestop already. The only way I see such "branching out" working is if they set up a true Steam competitor. That means not just another distribution platform (Steam already does that more than well enough), but something that establishes value over Steam by doing something more. I just don't see it happening.

And you're right that I'm simplifying the problem. When you don't have all of the information necessary to do a perfect analysis, you make simplifying assumptions to make the problem more tractable. This is one of the key methods of mathematical modelling, and it works just as well in any other field where modelling and speculation are required. It's standard, as far as I know, in economical modelling, for instance. So let's establish exactly what I'm assuming:

1. The public isn't particularly enamoured by the idea of the PS4 and XBO having such DRM, and will (assuming they have it, of course) see slower sales than they otherwise would have.
2. Gamestop wishes to stay in the retail video gaming business.
3. Nintendo are not changing their current plans, DRM will not be present on the Wii U or 3DS in any such form.
4. Gamestop makes most of its profits from used game sales due to relatively small retail margins on new games.
5. Videogaming isn't in a decline, it's in a temporarily suppressed state due to a combination of economic climate and increasing game prices.
5b. Current DRM plans from MS and Sony will see game prices at least stay the same, if not rise.

Do you have any problem with any of these simplifying assumptions?

Impulse was a steam competitor when they bought it, I don't know what they are doing with it now.

What I am trying to say is that we don't have enough information to start making any sort of model. Your assertion that people hate this DRM, for example, I based on the more hardcore gaming community especially those on twitter. I know many who aren't bothered by it and we know Microsoft is trying to attract more than just the hardcore gaming market, they seem to think this generation can reach 1bn sales...

Nintendo aren't going to change their policy, but Microsoft and Sony aren't really the problem. They are allowing the publishers to limit used games, but they are not doing it themselves. If it is such a big monetary issue, then we won't be seeing as many games on Wii U, just look at EA

Yes, so Gamestop makes their money from used games, and it remains to be seen what cut the publishers take. That is the key missing information, if it is about $5, then I think there won't be a problem, but if it is more then it might get tricky

I don't think that videogaming is decline, I think console videogaming is in decline.



Somini said:
Sony is not going to do this. I expect EA, Activision, Ubisoft and maybe Capcom doing this on the PS4, since it's up to the publisher. But let's not forget that there are a lot of developers who don't do anthing with this DRM nonsence.


I thought I read somewhere that watchdogs wont have DRM. So that looks like Ubi wont be doing this. I can't find it now so maybe I was dreaming.



Nintendo benefits from game sharing cause a lot of their audience is kids with limited income and they're software has ungodly legs and they don't have price protection. Derp.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)