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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Official Retro Games Thread (was: Atarians and other retro gamers assemble!)

Gamerace said:
happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:

Every form of electronic entertainment has blanded itself together under the banner known as "videogames".  This includes games, adventures and also interactive fiction.  Because the videogame industry has a longing to be like the movie industry, there is a push for a story, acting, "memorable characters" and whatnot, and hung up on that.  In light of this, the two biggest impact IPs this generation are likely Angry Birds and Minecraft that have NONE of that.

Speaking on Dragon's Lair, I happened to end up seeing a video on YouTube how the single player campaign of the latest Medal of Honor game way WAY like Dragon's Lair.  You had to do things EXACTLY, or you would die.  Was it "Angry Biscuit" or something who did it (British guy)?  And someone can then go and post the modern FPS map vs that of Doom map.  It seems FPS also changed when they got rid of the auto mapping in the game, due to going 3D with the maps (Quake first to change this).  So, you do have things, in effect, where if you add something, you can lose elements of gameplay in there prior.

I was pointing out that key games back then also had a significant portion storytelling and a lesser portion of gameplay. Another example was King's Quest. I'm not sure a forum on retro will eliminate that crucial segment in the industry, as hard as people will try to eradicate it. It is an important part of gaming for many people out there.

It's a valid point but I know for myself I hate seeing a lot of genre's lose their basic gameplay to become more action oriented (Survival horrors, RPGs) and action based games become ever more focused on a movie-like experience often at the cost of the basic gameplay.   For example, I don't want a linear QTE Tomb Raider (not even for an hour) for the sake of character development.  I don't need Lara to have a more realistic character, I want more puzzle/exploration.  It's a game, not a movie, leave it as such.   But I am vastly outvoted because games that leave their basic premise to cater to the biggest audience (Resident Evil) are handsomely rewarded.

I could argue that it seems today that there is a reduction of genres, and an increase blanding to the lowest common denominator, a mashing of things in the name of storytelling.  It has increasely become more of interactive fiction and adventures, with increased dexerity elements, or adventure being mashed with action, and things dumbed down to pulling levers in certain order or hunting the key card.  Action has assimilated adventure, outside of Indie stuff, and then you now see RPG also being assimilated.  The stat building element of RPGs has been getting into about everything at this point.

So, you come out with large scaled budget blanding of genres, that are supposed to appeal to everyone, in the name of adventure.



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richardhutnik said:
Gamerace said:
happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:

Every form of electronic entertainment has blanded itself together under the banner known as "videogames".  This includes games, adventures and also interactive fiction.  Because the videogame industry has a longing to be like the movie industry, there is a push for a story, acting, "memorable characters" and whatnot, and hung up on that.  In light of this, the two biggest impact IPs this generation are likely Angry Birds and Minecraft that have NONE of that.

Speaking on Dragon's Lair, I happened to end up seeing a video on YouTube how the single player campaign of the latest Medal of Honor game way WAY like Dragon's Lair.  You had to do things EXACTLY, or you would die.  Was it "Angry Biscuit" or something who did it (British guy)?  And someone can then go and post the modern FPS map vs that of Doom map.  It seems FPS also changed when they got rid of the auto mapping in the game, due to going 3D with the maps (Quake first to change this).  So, you do have things, in effect, where if you add something, you can lose elements of gameplay in there prior.

I was pointing out that key games back then also had a significant portion storytelling and a lesser portion of gameplay. Another example was King's Quest. I'm not sure a forum on retro will eliminate that crucial segment in the industry, as hard as people will try to eradicate it. It is an important part of gaming for many people out there.

It's a valid point but I know for myself I hate seeing a lot of genre's lose their basic gameplay to become more action oriented (Survival horrors, RPGs) and action based games become ever more focused on a movie-like experience often at the cost of the basic gameplay.   For example, I don't want a linear QTE Tomb Raider (not even for an hour) for the sake of character development.  I don't need Lara to have a more realistic character, I want more puzzle/exploration.  It's a game, not a movie, leave it as such.   But I am vastly outvoted because games that leave their basic premise to cater to the biggest audience (Resident Evil) are handsomely rewarded.

I could argue that it seems today that there is a reduction of genres, and an increase blanding to the lowest common denominator, a mashing of things in the name of storytelling.  It has increasely become more of interactive fiction and adventures, with increased dexerity elements, or adventure being mashed with action, and things dumbed down to pulling levers in certain order or hunting the key card.  Action has assimilated adventure, outside of Indie stuff, and then you now see RPG also being assimilated.  The stat building element of RPGs has been getting into about everything at this point.

So, you come out with large scaled budget blanding of genres, that are supposed to appeal to everyone, in the name of adventure.

I agree with you on retail games, Resident Evil is the example I always use for the homogenisation of game play. But recently we have seen a new renaissance of gaming with the new explosion of indie games. XBLA and Steam are the place to be if you love games of all the genre's no longer on store shelves. I have three Dreamcast games on preorder right now. A vertical shooter called Sturmwind, a classic RPG called Pier Solar, and a horizontal shooter called Redux. BTW, Pier Solar HD is coming to XBLA , Wii U, PC and Mobile. My point is that the games we all love are still coming out, they just aren't coming in boxes any more.



richardhutnik said:

I could argue that it seems today that there is a reduction of genres, and an increase blanding to the lowest common denominator, a mashing of things in the name of storytelling.  It has increasely become more of interactive fiction and adventures, with increased dexerity elements, or adventure being mashed with action, and things dumbed down to pulling levers in certain order or hunting the key card.  Action has assimilated adventure, outside of Indie stuff, and then you now see RPG also being assimilated.  The stat building element of RPGs has been getting into about everything at this point.

So, you come out with large scaled budget blanding of genres, that are supposed to appeal to everyone, in the name of adventure.

imho you're blaming the wrong culprit. It's not in the name of adventure more than it is in the name of mass-appeal.

Also, everything should come in its good dose. If all games were like King's Quest, we'd never have Zelda. Also, adventure doesn't nessecarily mean dumbed down. Zelda OoT is rift with adventure, yet is was not dumbed down. I think balance in all things is key and it's not because some games were dumbed down to fit a lucrative formula that gamers should be on a witchhunt for games that seek adventure as a nutrition for gamers.

Perspective.



happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:

I could argue that it seems today that there is a reduction of genres, and an increase blanding to the lowest common denominator, a mashing of things in the name of storytelling.  It has increasely become more of interactive fiction and adventures, with increased dexerity elements, or adventure being mashed with action, and things dumbed down to pulling levers in certain order or hunting the key card.  Action has assimilated adventure, outside of Indie stuff, and then you now see RPG also being assimilated.  The stat building element of RPGs has been getting into about everything at this point.

So, you come out with large scaled budget blanding of genres, that are supposed to appeal to everyone, in the name of adventure.

imho you're blaming the wrong culprit. It's not in the name of adventure more than it is in the name of mass-appeal.

Also, everything should come in its good dose. If all games were like King's Quest, we'd never have Zelda. Also, adventure doesn't nessecarily mean dumbed down. Zelda OoT is rift with adventure, yet is was not dumbed down. I think balance in all things is key and it's not because some games were dumbed down to fit a lucrative formula that gamers should be on a witchhunt for games that seek adventure as a nutrition for gamers.

Perspective.

I am not going to say that the adventure genre disappeared, or all of them have dumbed down puzzles, just the adventure genre vanished into action for the most part.  This alone isn't the issue.  The issue is large budgets resulting in a need to dumb things down to sell.  The issue, from a retro perspective, is a loss of established genres so people who like them are without them, not even really the fact that action has picked up elements from other genres.

As a retro gamer, and why I want retro gamer community to have a stronger voice and have a say into their genre being supported, I want to see the genres of the past still be viable and get served sufficiently.  Genres should die off and assimilated into some generic thing called "videogames", but stand out as sufficiently rich experiences for the fans.  I also hold hope for bonus points that newcomers can also be welcomed to.   I want more genres, not less.

I would also add now that the great blanding of things is happening more now than in the past, due to development costs going mad insane.



Represent.



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Stinky said:
Represent.

So does your avatar



I start at Super Pong! (But I was very little)  But no, I didn't know Benjamin Franklin or remember the time before the wheel.

 



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!

Atari 2600, 5200 and 7800 represent!

The 2600 and 5200 were the first consoles I ever played, both owned by my cousins, and then the 7800 became my first ever very own console.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

I still got the Ami 1200 but with a Motorola 68030 clocked at 50Mhz.

 

Other previous retro machines: Some 10 in 1 pong console, Intellivision, Commodore 64, Amiga 500, Amiga 600, Amiga 1200, PS1, Nintendo 64, Dreamcast.



richardhutnik said:

I am not going to say that the adventure genre disappeared, or all of them have dumbed down puzzles, just the adventure genre vanished into action for the most part.  This alone isn't the issue.  The issue is large budgets resulting in a need to dumb things down to sell.  The issue, from a retro perspective, is a loss of established genres so people who like them are without them, not even really the fact that action has picked up elements from other genres.

As a retro gamer, and why I want retro gamer community to have a stronger voice and have a say into their genre being supported, I want to see the genres of the past still be viable and get served sufficiently.  Genres should die off and assimilated into some generic thing called "videogames", but stand out as sufficiently rich experiences for the fans.  I also hold hope for bonus points that newcomers can also be welcomed to.   I want more genres, not less.

I would also add now that the great blanding of things is happening more now than in the past, due to development costs going mad insane.

My point to gamerace was that retro gaming does not exclude the importance of adventure games and games where gameplay is not absolutely central to the entertainment of the game. The experience as a whole is a rich one. The examples I gave were king's quest and dragon's lair/space ace. There are many more.

The allergy some people have to adventure nowadays (given more modern trends) is due to a lack of perspective.