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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MCV: "Devil May Cry fans to blame for DmC sales disappointment"

curl-6 said:
Rafux said:

 

^ I have to say something about the character change, for me its not the physical change in Dante what bothers me its the essence in its character what really bothers me and I'm gonna have to use a comparison to explain my point:

Lets take 2009 Dragon Ball Evolution, its almost immposible to adapt DB to begin with and I knew the story would not be the same but all I wanted is that at least they maintain the essence of the characters, they didn't.

Movie Goku now has romantic interests, goes to parties, avoid fights, and says things like "I don't know if I can do this"

Thats not Goku, they failed to capture even his most basic traits.


Now lets see Dante:

Old Dante doesn't smoke, he doesn't curse, he is a goofy laid back guy who doesn't take things seriously until the moment of truth comes, he is sexy but not overly sexual, he is half-demon and half-human and thats what makes him so strong the human part in him makes us relate to him more. 

New Dante curses, smokes, drinks, has treesomes, is no longer human, punches a door guy who was just doing his job. Thats not Dante.

 

Batman and Joker are reinvented all the time but their basic traits remain, Batman doesn't kill, Joker is crazy, etc.

Not all characters that change keep their basic traits; Godzilla went from being a horrific nuclear menace to a benevolent protector.

Now, I'm not saying people have to LIKE changes to characters, but dramatic change has been accepted before.


But he is still a huge monster created by consequence of nuclear power is not like they change him to a fairy energized by the power of love, he is still a monster and we need him that way because you need a monster to fight other monsters.

Look at Vegeta from Dragon Ball, he went from being a villain to a good guy but he maintained his personality, he still was the proud warrior prince of planet Vegita until the end.



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Rafux said:
curl-6 said:
Rafux said:

 

^ I have to say something about the character change, for me its not the physical change in Dante what bothers me its the essence in its character what really bothers me and I'm gonna have to use a comparison to explain my point:

Lets take 2009 Dragon Ball Evolution, its almost immposible to adapt DB to begin with and I knew the story would not be the same but all I wanted is that at least they maintain the essence of the characters, they didn't.

Movie Goku now has romantic interests, goes to parties, avoid fights, and says things like "I don't know if I can do this"

Thats not Goku, they failed to capture even his most basic traits.


Now lets see Dante:

Old Dante doesn't smoke, he doesn't curse, he is a goofy laid back guy who doesn't take things seriously until the moment of truth comes, he is sexy but not overly sexual, he is half-demon and half-human and thats what makes him so strong the human part in him makes us relate to him more. 

New Dante curses, smokes, drinks, has treesomes, is no longer human, punches a door guy who was just doing his job. Thats not Dante.

 

Batman and Joker are reinvented all the time but their basic traits remain, Batman doesn't kill, Joker is crazy, etc.

Not all characters that change keep their basic traits; Godzilla went from being a horrific nuclear menace to a benevolent protector.

Now, I'm not saying people have to LIKE changes to characters, but dramatic change has been accepted before.


But he is still a huge monster created by consequence of nuclear power is not like they change him to a fairy energized by the power of love, he is still a monster and we need him that way because you need a monster to fight other monsters.

Look at Vegeta from Dragon Ball, he went from being a villain to a good guy but he maintained his personality, he still was the proud warrior prince of planet Vegita until the end.


Godzilla didn't maintain his personality though, he's been everything from an actively cruel and violent villain to a goofy hero. And fi you want to talk changing origins, let's go back to Catwoman, whose supernatural origins in the Burton movies and that awful standalone  film were axed from the recent Nolan upate.



Burton's Catwoman had a weird origin but still felt like Catwoman, the stand alone movie failed in every aspect.

Does Godzilla has a personality?, to be honest I don't know much about him but my Vegeta comparison still got the point across.



Rafux said:
Burton's Catwoman had a weird origin but still felt like Catwoman, the stand alone movie failed in every aspect.

Does Godzilla has a personality, to be honest I don't know much about him but my Vegeta comparison still got the point across.

@Bold: On this I agree whole heartedly! ;)

@Italics: He does; in some of his films he goes out of his way to kill helpless people who pose no threat to him. In others, he'll let them live, and even fight alongside humans.

I do see your point, I just see it differently.



curl-6 said:

From Batman Returns to The Dark Knight Rises, Catwoman went from a blonde with a head-covering mask an shiny leather to a brunette whose "mask" only covered her eyes and whose costume was no longer shiny black. Her appearance changed dramatically.

Starbuck who? http://media.sfx.co.uk/files/2011/10/Battle-of-the-starbucks-201011.jpg Quite a dramatic character change, no?

And I'm sorry too, but prioritising a character's appearance in a VIDEO GAME over the actual gameplay is shallow in my book.

I suppose you weren't listening...or reading for that matter. Its not just the appearance but the actuall character itself. The original Dante is in no way or form remotely similar or connected to the new one.

Change the appearance, sure, lots of characters have undergone change, but when you change the core of the character...well thats what most DMC are angry about.

Catwoman went from a leather clad chick, to a black chick, to this new chick. Heck, in comics she now wears goggles, is no longer a true villain and so on and so forht. But the main core of the character is still there.

Superman went from leaping tall buildings to smashing planets in one punch. He went from super strength/speed etc to superman red and blue and then back again. Heck, DC rebooted with the "new 52" and changed everything as much as possible and yet retianed the essence of the character. The "core" of the character which is "Superman" is still there.

Wonder woman went from amazon princes to diana super spy agent and then back again to the daughter of Zues to who knows whats going on with her now adays and yet, at her core, she is still who she was, this strong willed woman who stands up for what is right etc etc etc

No ones claiming that they boycoted the game coz of the "looks alone" but because of the change to actual core and character of dante.

I fou still dont get that then there's no helping you. I'm sure you're one of those who always bring up things like "wut? dey mad coz of the hair color change? dey stupid!" and yet, its not just the color that the fanbase are angry about. I take it back though, you'r not shallow, you're one of those individuals who thinks that he's always right or what he thinks is what matters but in reallity, you're just comming off as plain stupid.



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zero129 said:

+1 for this post. Anyone that would miss out on a great game and want to see it crash and burn just cos of a character change is very shallow imo (This is not directed at anyone in the forums)

No, its their right to feel angry because a character they liked or some even loved was so drastically changed that he is no longer recognizable.

If the makers of the movie saga twilight went and replaced "Edward" with someone else,  do you think it would have still garnered the support of its fans? nope! Replace Krsiten with someone else, would it affect ticket sales? you bet your ass it will.

You may think its shallow, but some people have invested feelings into the characters that they love or like and changing them drastically will just hurt their feelings. No matter how lame it is to be affected by such changes, which it is, it is still significant.

I fear that there are just to many close minded invididuals here, and yes you are one of them if you dont see why the fanbase decdided that this new DMC game with this new Dante isn't worht their money when the Dante that they know and love isn't there.



curl-6 said:


Godzilla didn't maintain his personality though, he's been everything from an actively cruel and violent villain to a goofy hero. And fi you want to talk changing origins, let's go back to Catwoman, whose supernatural origins in the Burton movies and that awful standalone  film were axed from the recent Nolan upate.

This tells me that you dont read or you dont understand what you're reading. I already mentioned that you can change the characters origin/back ground etc, but if the main identity of the character is retained ie, she's still catwoman, then no matter what other things changes the character will remain as catwoman. she's still a thief, she's still a cat, so even if she goes black or white or suddenly gets super powers like superman but still maintains that trait of her of being catwoman, then she's still catwoman.

Godzilla is a giant lizard monster who was mutated into what he is and can shoot lasers from his eyes and mouth. thats it, he does what he wants wether it be killing inocent people or saving them. thats his core attribute, he's a giant lizard. Did they change that? nope. again major fail on your part.

here's another for you, the karate kid. new one has jackie chan and that smith kid. he's black and does cool kung fu moves. They even changed the iconic crane kick. But did it work? yeah it did, the character retained the traits of the original, a kid who was being picked on and wanted to learn kung fu or karate or whatever. Too bad jackie sucked as mr miagi...that was lame and didn't do the original justice.

how about lara croft? her looks has been re booted lots of times, and yet, there's no mistaking that she still looks like lara. I can go on and on and on with various examples and you still probably wont get it.

how about green lantern? yeah, they never rebooted him since they just made new lanters, and it worked, which is what capcom should have done.

how about optimus prime? he's had so many different iterations that its funnys, optim prime, optimus primal etc etc, but he always retained that core of what made prime prime and that's his personality...he did kinda always look the same too.

The list goes on and on of charactes being re invented or modernized, yet they retained the core dynamics of the character. Unlike this new dante who is in no way or form what the original dante is all about.

 



Because DMC 4 sucked, so this one is not selling to well.

However I did buy this one. I do like it a lot.



ils411 said:
curl-6 said:

From Batman Returns to The Dark Knight Rises, Catwoman went from a blonde with a head-covering mask an shiny leather to a brunette whose "mask" only covered her eyes and whose costume was no longer shiny black. Her appearance changed dramatically.

Starbuck who? http://media.sfx.co.uk/files/2011/10/Battle-of-the-starbucks-201011.jpg Quite a dramatic character change, no?

And I'm sorry too, but prioritising a character's appearance in a VIDEO GAME over the actual gameplay is shallow in my book.

I suppose you weren't listening...or reading for that matter. Its not just the appearance but the actuall character itself. The original Dante is in no way or form remotely similar or connected to the new one.

Change the appearance, sure, lots of characters have undergone change, but when you change the core of the character...well thats what most DMC are angry about.

Catwoman went from a leather clad chick, to a black chick, to this new chick. Heck, in comics she now wears goggles, is no longer a true villain and so on and so forht. But the main core of the character is still there.

Superman went from leaping tall buildings to smashing planets in one punch. He went from super strength/speed etc to superman red and blue and then back again. Heck, DC rebooted with the "new 52" and changed everything as much as possible and yet retianed the essence of the character. The "core" of the character which is "Superman" is still there.

Wonder woman went from amazon princes to diana super spy agent and then back again to the daughter of Zues to who knows whats going on with her now adays and yet, at her core, she is still who she was, this strong willed woman who stands up for what is right etc etc etc

No ones claiming that they boycoted the game coz of the "looks alone" but because of the change to actual core and character of dante.

I fou still dont get that then there's no helping you. I'm sure you're one of those who always bring up things like "wut? dey mad coz of the hair color change? dey stupid!" and yet, its not just the color that the fanbase are angry about. I take it back though, you'r not shallow, you're one of those individuals who thinks that he's always right or what he thinks is what matters but in reallity, you're just comming off as plain stupid.

The changes to Dante are nowhere near as profound as the changes a character like Godzilla has been through. He hasn't one from selfless hero to cruel villain or anything. (Not saying you have to like the new guy)

And actually, I've seen pleny people write the game off with only the new look of Dante as the basis. if you're not one of them, more power to you.

If there's actual gameplay elements people find unpalatable, that's completely understandable. But if some personality and appearance changes to the main character are the only reason for not giving a video game a chance, then I just can't find that reasonable.



zero129 said:

Im far from closed minded, the ones who are closed minded are the ones who wants to comment on the game before they even play it and try using a crappy demo to justify their points, i too used to love the Old Dante and hated this game when i first seen it but guess what? i got over it, and got the game and now think its the Best game in the DMC franchis.

Dante starts changing to be more and more like the older dante as the game goes on!, he stops being such a douch like he is at the start.

Id imagine by the 2nd DmC game this new Dante would end up becoming alot like the old dante, People are forgetting this game is meant to be an Origins story.

Now there's your problem, crappy demo. If the demo sucked, then chances are, those who tried it will think that the final game will suck. A demo is suppose to show case what is great about a product, you see it all the time in malls and supermarkets, they demo tvs, appliances, even give samples of food and stuff and they try to show why this food is great or why that tv is awesome and so on and so forth.

Now with a crapy game demo, what else would people think? its CAPCOM's own fault for releasing a demo that sucked balls. If that demo sucked balls, why waste moneyz on the final product when you think it will still suck and that there is nothing else to base your decision on? Reviews? what for? there's a demo out.

Game developers just never learn, never ever ever EVER release a demo that sucks! If anything else, its better to release a demo that is supperior to the final product, that way people will think, hey the demo is awesome, final game must be full of win!!! Much like how a bigmac looks really ymmy on the menus only to be served a flat piece of a burger assembled like they just slaped on the ingredients together at warpseep.