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Forums - Gaming Discussion - MCV: "Devil May Cry fans to blame for DmC sales disappointment"

outlawauron said:
TruckOSaurus said:
outlawauron said:

He looks like a prick in both types. Never thought a that a bishounen with silver hair would be seen as cool by the hivemind who generally hate Japanese male characters.

In all fairness, Dante looks like a guy which is rarely the case for Japanese male characters.

This statement makes me sad Truck. He's no more masculine than Tidus.

Yes he is. Tidus has an earring

Please tell me you find him more masculine than Vaan at least?



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TruckOSaurus said:
outlawauron said:
TruckOSaurus said:
outlawauron said:

He looks like a prick in both types. Never thought a that a bishounen with silver hair would be seen as cool by the hivemind who generally hate Japanese male characters.

In all fairness, Dante looks like a guy which is rarely the case for Japanese male characters.

This statement makes me sad Truck. He's no more masculine than Tidus.

Yes he is. Tidus has an earring

Please tell me you find him more masculine than Vaan at least?

Yes, I do. Mostly because Vaan is drawn to be a lot younger and his existence is because people generally buy more of a game if it has a young male protaginist.



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darkknightkryta said:

You're not wrong about the removal of options.  But DMC doesn't have any less weapons, but without the styles backing up the weapons you have far elss options.

Ok then. Although I looked around and I'm seeing 10 weapons in DMC3 without Vergil and just 9 in DmC (without Vergil's DLC)... What am I missing ?

http://devilmaycry.neoseeker.com/wiki/Weapons%20of%20Devil%20May%20Cry%203

http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Category:DmC_weapons

And there were also 10 in DMC4 counting both characters, right ?

Anyway, as long as there's around the same is fine. I thought I heard there was more difference, but maybe it was when compared to DMC3 SE...



seiya19 said:
darkknightkryta said:

You're not wrong about the removal of options.  But DMC doesn't have any less weapons, but without the styles backing up the weapons you have far elss options.

Ok then. Although I looked around and I'm seeing 10 weapons in DMC3 without Vergil and just 9 in DmC (without Vergil's DLC)... What am I missing ?

http://devilmaycry.neoseeker.com/wiki/Weapons%20of%20Devil%20May%20Cry%203

http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Category:DmC_weapons

And there were also 10 in DMC4 counting both characters, right ?

Anyway, as long as there's around the same is fine. I thought I heard there was more difference, but maybe it was when compared to DMC3 SE...


Devil May Cry 3 = 10

Devil May Cry SE = 14

Devil May Cry 4 = 11

DmC: Devil May Cry = 8

 

The main problem for me is the limited moveset:

 

Devil May Cry 3 = 121

Devil May Cry 3 SE = ~150

Devil May Cry 4 = 120 (not including all the different Busters, parries, etc)

DmC: Devil may Cry = 54 (maybe 60 with all the dodges included)

 



They can't be stopped...

 

A203D said:
seiya19 said:

@zero129

Here's a video review of the full game, not just the demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM-gEthxX2w

It points out the "flaws" of the game and arrives to the conclusion that the game is average at best. All of this, of course, is according to the reviewer's opinion. Now, could you please watch it and tell me exactly what makes this opinion invalid ? I know you will probably disagree, but there's a difference between disagreeing with an opinion and claiming it's wrong, so I want you to tell me exactly what invalidates his opinion, if anything does.



I watched a bit of the video. He dosen't review the game, he slams it using his own opinions as 'facts'.

 

He's wrong at 6.00 mins where is says the game provides you with less options. The game provides you more gameplay options than DMC3 and DMC4, since I've played all the previous games I know that for a fact. It seems to me he dosen't know much about the previous DMC games, because he says this reboot wasn't needed. DMC4 itself was a reboot of the series designed to focus on Nero and Kyrie as the new main characters.

This game is a reboot because Capcom didn't want to go down that road. Hes wrong when he says the game should've been an alternate reality. It was made clear DmC takes place in an alternate reality, which means either he didn't check the information or he knew it and deliberately omitted it.

You have a lot of these types of people who turn out not to know much about the series. Hes just another one of those people. It dosen't invalidate his review. It means thats an amateur player; which is why you should look at critical reviews who review games fairly.

Edit: Scratch that. I know what completely invalidate his review. At 6.20 mins (about that) he claims DmC is considerably slower than previous games. He 'proves' this showing DMC3. If you look at the DMC3 footage he shows, theres something different about it... Thats because its DMC3 running on Turbo Mode. So he's accidentally compared DmC to DMC3 running on Turbo Mode. Thats an amateur mistake. He clearly dosen't know much about the series.


He used Turbo mode the entire time, not to prove that DmC was slow.  And he mentioned that some of the weapons were intentionally slow, which is a fact.



They can't be stopped...

 

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ShroudedDarkness said:
seiya19 said:
darkknightkryta said:

You're not wrong about the removal of options.  But DMC doesn't have any less weapons, but without the styles backing up the weapons you have far elss options.

Ok then. Although I looked around and I'm seeing 10 weapons in DMC3 without Vergil and just 9 in DmC (without Vergil's DLC)... What am I missing ?

http://devilmaycry.neoseeker.com/wiki/Weapons%20of%20Devil%20May%20Cry%203

http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Category:DmC_weapons

And there were also 10 in DMC4 counting both characters, right ?

Anyway, as long as there's around the same is fine. I thought I heard there was more difference, but maybe it was when compared to DMC3 SE...


Devil May Cry 3 = 10

Devil May Cry SE = 14

Devil May Cry 4 = 11

DmC: Devil May Cry = 8

 

The main problem for me is the limited moveset:

 

Devil May Cry 3 = 121

Devil May Cry 3 SE = ~150

Devil May Cry 4 = 120 (not including all the different Busters, parries, etc)

DmC: Devil may Cry = 54 (maybe 60 with all the dodges included)

 

I wasn't really thinking of guns as gun play is a small portion of combat.  2 devil weapons, 2 angel weapons, and Rebellion, total 5.  DMC 3 had Rebellion, Agni and Rudra, Cerberus, Nevan, and Beowulf total of 5. But like you said, moveset is the problem, there's far less combos in DMC.  One standard 4 hit combo per weapon and one timing based combo per weapon plus similar style for air combo.  Devil May Cry 3/4 had a bit more per weapon, plus the styles racked things up a lot.  DMC gives you a whip, but you can only do so much by pulling yourself to an enemy or pulling an enemy towards you.  Plus they sacrificed battle stance/targetting to give you an extra button for dodge and launcher.  On top of that they wasted two bottons for dodges.  I've literally had to run away from battles, and more often than I should, so I could adjust the camera since there's no lock on.  Biggest problem with this game though; is the camera.  I've never understood why you'd want to take control of the camera while you're actively battling enemies, you end up fighting the camera instead.



ShroudedDarkness said:


Devil May Cry 3 = 10

Devil May Cry SE = 14

Devil May Cry 4 = 11

DmC: Devil May Cry = 8

 

The main problem for me is the limited moveset:

 

Devil May Cry 3 = 121

Devil May Cry 3 SE = ~150

Devil May Cry 4 = 120 (not including all the different Busters, parries, etc)

DmC: Devil may Cry = 54 (maybe 60 with all the dodges included)

 

Now that's a comprehensive list... If those numbers are accurate, the lack of styles is even more noticeable than I thought...



seiya19 said:

With regards to R1 lock. Not sure if you know this, but the lock-on works by direction. You hold the left analogue stick in the direction of the enemy you want to attack and it generates a hard lock feedback that won't break.

I found it to be far superior to the previous games because the R1 lock was clunky. It took time to switch between targets. For example the chess board in mission 18 of DMC3. There are over 10 chess pieces on the board, it takes so long for Dante to cycle through targets to lock-on to the Queen, and when she leaves the players view, the target is reset.

The new targeting system works much better. You switch seamlessly between enemies, without having to mediate between R1 and L3 presses to select the target you want. You just point in the direction of the enemy you want and Dante attacks. It also means you never have to hold R1 to be able to dodge. You have dedicated dodge buttons like Bayonetta.

In previous games the R1 lock was also clunky because whenever the player held R1 Dante would strafe around his target. This new system dosen't slow Dante's movement at all, everything just feels much more fluid. I think DmC and Bayonetta are much better action games without forcing the player to hold onto a lock button. All the moves can be performed without having to hold lock on, like Bayonetta.

Because the developers have shifted the movesets into the R2 and L2 trigger buttons the game actually has more gameplay options available than DMC3, and about the same as DMC4 with Nero and Dante combined. So more than DMC3/4 in respect of any one character. Probably less if you combine the entire movesets of Dante/Vergil (DMC3:SE) and Dante/Nero (DMC4).

The issue with DMC3's 'styles' is that you can only change styles in a menu. That locks you into certain ways of playing the game. This system is designed so you can access all the moves, all the weapons in real time without having to enter a menu. DmC Dante is not exactly Dante, hes a hybrid of Dante and Nero from DMC4.

The thing they've done really well is the Angel/Demon pull. You never have to run to your target, unlike DMC3. You seamless move from enemy to enemy at lightning speed. They combat goes further than that. The best thing about the game (my opinion) is that combo offset mechanic. Its sort of similar to Bayonetta's Dodge Offset, but not. You see the pause combos you have with each weapon have secondary uses. What you can do is start you attack with Orsiris, wait for the weapon to shine and release the L2 Trigger. Dante immediately switchs to Rebellion and you can continue into Rebellion's Death Coil. Thats something new to the series. At the moment only a few people are using it, but when you combine all five weapons together offseting your weapons into each other, it reaches a depth that the previous games didn't.

Theres a few problems with the game though. I mean DmC Dante is meant to integrate Nero and DMC4 Dante's movesets. They give the game a lot of depth, but they havent got everything from previous games in there. Thats something that did bother me, because I've seen a lot of places where the combat should be improved. At the same time, I think the combat is not as deep as Bayonetta which is in my opinion the best action game ever made.

Speed wise, theres a video from a guy called Chaser the Wolf on Youtube, if you check out his speed analysis video, you'll see that DmC has some moves faster and some moves slower than DMC4. Its about on par; I'm quite happy with the speed.

Some weapons are designed to be slower because each weapon is designed to have different mechanics. The Arbiter (axe) is meant to be very powerful, but slow. A bit like DMC3's Beowolf. Its would be pointless to make every weapon the same. That was something DMC4 didn't really do because Nero only had the Red Queen (Yamato only had a few moves). DMC4 Dante had less weapons, but they were secondary weapons, you were never forced to use them. The same goes for DMC3, you can go through the whole of DMC3 only using 2 or 3 of the weapons. This game forces you to use each weapon because the weapons are all useful in different situations and useful for traversing the environment.



A203D said:
seiya19 said:

 

The targeting system is not better as 25% of the time I targeted the wrong ground enemy and 60% of the time, when trying to target an aerial enemy, I targeted a ground enemy instead.  There was absolutely no reason Ninja Theory couldn't have also coded in a manual lock.  And it also takes time to switch target for DmC, only now, unlike DMC 1, 3, and 4, I can't lock on to the enemy I want to and the aforementioned problem occurs.

Devil May Cry 4 Dante had 83 moves available to him at all times, so no, DmC Dante does not have more gameplay options.  And the fact that DmC has more options is due to the fact that the Xbox 360 and PS3 don't have extreme RAM limitations.  And DMC 3 Dante still manages to have 50% more moves overall.

And Devil May Cry 4 remedies the Style issue due to being on a system with more RAM.  If all DmC did was remedy situations that were already remedied in Devil May Cry 4, I fail to see what exactly it brought to the table.

Yes, great, so they added a single mechanic.  Problem?  Most enemies die too quickly on the first 3 difficulty levels to even use it very much.  And beyond that, due to the extremely limited moveset, it might add 10 new combinations to the mix.  I would have perferred they took the time it took to make that mechanic and put it into making more moves and maybe a new weapon.

Yes, such as the fact that Dante's whips have very few of the mechanics that Nero's Devil Bringer had other than pulling enemies to you and pulling yourself to enemies.  They also failed to bring in a counterpart to Nero's Exceed System.  They also have absolutely no counterpart to Devil May Cry 3 and 4 Dante's Royal Guard style.  They also fail to fully implement a replacement for the Trickster style and Dante has so few moves with his guns that it fails to compare to Gunslinger.  Overall, DmC Dante has well under half the total moveset that Devil May Cry 3 Dante had and 2/3 the moveset Devil May Cry 4 Dante had.

Yes, it's great your happy with the speed.  A lot of people aren't.

Yes, they force you to use weapons by limiting the moves that you can use due to the Color Coded enemies.  On higher difficulties, they spam the hell out of the Color Coded enemies, making for a tedious grind of "Okay, let me use the same 15 to 20 moves on these three enemies... each taking 45 seconds to kill since Osiris and Aquila are laughably weak" and "Oh great, I get to use the same 10 moves for these 4 enemies... joy!"  All the while making Rebellion and your guns completely useless.  It's annoying, tedious, limits the moves you can use tremendously, and is spammed the hell out of in later difficulties.  And the platforming boils down to this:  Do I have to pull a piece out, or pull myself too it?  Can I make this jump with single/double jump or do I have to do an Angel Glide?  At most, the hardest thing they'll throw at you is making it so that you have to pull yourself to an object and then quickly pull and object under you.  This is an absolute chore the second time through and gets progressively worse with each playthrough as it NEVER CHANGES.

*Spoilers* (Just incase someone who hasn't played the game reads this)

There are also:

 

-Unskippable cutscenes.

-Long loading times: why am I watching the same combo screen 4 and 5 times ina row for each level, only to find out that there are even more loading times in the level?  Why am I forced to watch entire 25 second sections of cutscenes due to loading times?

-Several glitches: You should see some of the glitch videos on youtube... it's almost embarrasing.  Just from what has happened to me, the enemies will sometimes get stuck in the level; Dante will sometimes get stuck in the level; Dante can glitch through the level and die; and the Dreamrunner can glitch into a wall.  Hell, I even had a Witch kill herself on several occasions due to ATTACKING HERSELF.

-Bad enemy pathfinding:  Hell, some enemies will just stop attacking, period, until I bash on them a bit.  Or maybe Vergil might keep walking around me for eternity since he can't decide how he wants to attack me.  Or Maybe Dreamrunner doesn't appear out of a portal for 30 seconds cause I'm moving too much and he can't seem to decide when to appear.

-Lag when changing weapons.

-Laughably bad boss fights: Mundus is a massive blob monster?  Who is pretty much a retread of the Posion fight?  Who is one of the easier bosses of the fight?  What the hell!  And the Hunter?  Easiest boss of all time and with Devil Trigger I can take him down in 10 seconds flat.

-Really bad AI:  Again, I've seen enemies kill THEMSELVES due to attacking themselves.  Or by running into enviromental hazards THEMSELVES.  Or by teleporting offscreen TO THEIR DEATH.  Or taking 20 seconds or more to attack A SINGLE TIME. 

-Rather large framerate drops on the PS3 version.

-An utterly broken Ranking System:  So I once did an experiment:  I purposefully died 5 times and used 10 items to see what my ranking would be.  Guess what?  It was STILL an A rank.  And now people have found glitches where you can die 147 times and STILL get an A rank and die 9 times and still get an SSS rank.

-Laughably unbalance gameplay:  Demon Dodge + Demon Weapon = SSSadistic with hundreds of thousands of point.  YOU WIN!  Demon Weapons do WAY TOO MUCH DAMAGE in comparison to Angel weapons.  Seriously, I never used Angel weapons until the game FORCED me to use them due to the fact that I can get 12,000+ points for a single Demon Combo yet only 2,000+ points for a dozen angel combos.  This is just ONE of the ways the gameplay is unbalanced.

-Unbelievably easy difficulty.

 

It's fine to like the game.  But mechanically, programming, and balance wise it's a far cry from Bayonetta as well as Devil May Cry 3 and 4.



They can't be stopped...

 

Shrouded, you nailed it perfectly.