Why even hide it anymore with these legit criticisms?  They discovered the real reason we hate the game.  HIS FUCKING HAIR ISN'T WHITE! 

Thanks god it bombed hard maybe Capcom will see the light and hire Platinum to make DMC5

@A203D

I appreciate the in-depth reply. I still have a lot to learn about these games, so this discussion is a good chance to pick up some things, even if the game itself doesn't interest me.

My views regarding the lock-on and the related elements are probably better explained by the same guy who made the previous video, so I'm going to be lazy about it and just post another video of his, this time using the demo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9wth1Wk3EM  (Go to 1:30)

Basically, even if it were better to me as a way to lock enemies, which I don't think it would, the trade-off is just not worth it...

Speed wise, theres a video from a guy called Chaser the Wolf on Youtube, if you check out his speed analysis video, you'll see that DmC has some moves faster and some moves slower than DMC4. Its about on par; I'm quite happy with the speed.

This video, right ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meaPR33TKCs

Yeah, I actually saw it before, but I had forgotten about it... The difference is indeed minor, but I still see DMC4 being slightly faster overall... The pauses between the moves that the video mentions are particularly noticeable, although as I mentioned before, also more realistic. I probably wouldn't notice any difference by just playing the game itself, but I do notice it when I compare them here. And I can see how it could bother some of the most experienced and demanding players, specially without a Turbo mode option.

As far as the rest goes, I can't comment much about.. I'm missing some pieces of the puzzle... And I know very little about Bayonetta, but I do want to try it.

I'll step aside and let the experts talk now, given how this is getting above my limited experience... My intent was just to give enough evidence of the existance of valid negative criticism, as to disprove all the generalizations made here about basically anyone that doesn't like it... Nothing more than that.

"The targeting system is not better as 25% of the time I targeted the wrong ground enemy and 60% of the time"

I've never had any problem targetting the enemy I want. If your targetting the wrong enemy, it might be that your not using it properly. Like I said the reason I felt the targetting was more fluid is because in previous games R1 lock forces Dante into a strafe position. This slows down his movement and locks him into a single enemy proximty.

The point of removing that type of lock was so Dante had free flow movement at all times. It also means Dante isn't restricted in a single enemy proximity. For example one of the things that was cumbersome in the previous games was how you can only evade when holding down the R1 lock button. That create problems when your facing groups of enemies becasuse Dante's evasion movement are restricted by the proximity of the enemy he is locked onto.

The point of this new locking system was to allow free flow movement at all times, no slow down strafing, no restricted movement, evasion alavailble at all times, more fluid transition between enemies rather than mediating between R1 and L3 button presses.

"Devil May Cry 4 Dante had 83 moves available to him at all times, so no, DmC Dante does not have more gameplay options. Yes, such as the fact that Dante's whips have very few of the mechanics that Nero's Devil Bringer had other than pulling enemies to you and pulling yourself to enemies.  They also failed to bring in a counterpart to Nero's Exceed System.  They also have absolutely no counterpart to Devil May Cry 3 and 4 Dante's Royal Guard style. They also fail to fully implement a replacement for the Trickster style and Dante has so few moves with his guns that it fails to compare to Gunslinger.  Overall, DmC Dante has well under half the total moveset that Devil May Cry 3 Dante had and 2/3 the moveset Devil May Cry 4 Dante had."

I beleive DmC has about 70-80 moves, I haven't actually counted. But I'm not actually reffering to moves, I'm referring to how the mechanics of those moves work. The point of DmC Dante is that he integrates the mehcanics of both Nero and Dante. For example one of DMC4 Dante's Trickser moves is Teleportation to an enemy; I don't see why that would be needed here because an enemy can be reached using Angel/Demon Pull. It was DMC4 Dante's version of reaching an enemy like Nero's Devil Bringer, but intead they decided to go with Nero's Devil Bringer because its more useful for other things. The Angel/Demon Pull are more useful in the air as well because they allow you to move in the air freely, unlike Teleportation which is point to point movement.

With the Royal Guard style. I can understand why they didn't replicate that exactly. The Block & Charge move works by forcing Dante to remain stationary and to accept enemy attacks, then release that energy. Here they have something called Demon Evade. Where instead of restricting you to one point in space, you must dodge your enemy at the last instance while in Demon mode. That charges up your demon weapons. I feel that works much better because DMC is meant to be played taking no damage. They also have Parry. Where you must Block an enemy's attack at the last instance to deflect the attack to stun the enemy. Based on those moves I do feel they accomdated Royal Guard.

DmC Dante has Angel Dodge (Dash), Evade and Sky Star. They haven't got Teleport, but it has been substitued for the Angel/Demon Pull. I think the Tricker dodge moves became redundant because they have decided dodge buttons, unlike DMC3/4 Dante where the game has both Dodge and Dash for evading making one redudant. Interesting that means that when you had Trickster equiped on DMC3/4 you have two dodge buttons, I wonder if this makes DMC3/4's secondary dodge button 'worthless'.

"Unskippable cutscenes"

Most cutscenes are skippable. The previous DMC games also had unskippable cutscenes. Thats not specific to DmC.

"Yes, it's great your happy with the speed.  A lot of people aren't."

Actually I think the speed is faster than DMC4 in some cases and slighter slower than DMC4 in others. However I think the Aquila weapon is faster than anything from the previous games. Thats why I haven't had any problems with speed. If you have problems with DmC being faster than the previous games, then perhaps you would'nt be happy with the previous games either.

"Yes, they force you to use weapons by limiting the moves that you can use due to the Color Coded enemies."

Thats not something I consider a problem. Because in the higher difficulties those enemies are remixed with other types of enemies, you never fight a single colour coded enemy by itself on the higher difficulties. The system is desgined to force you to adapt to changing enemy formations instead of using the same attacks for each wave of enemies. i didn't have a problem with that becasue when you have enemies of different types on screen you are forced to changed your tactics. And I think theres actually more enemies on screen than DMC4.

I also thought the platforming was a lot better than previous games because its more dynamic, and the camera doesen't interfere with the platforming elements this time. It extends the use of the Angel/Demon move sets as well, if had problems with that I would suggest playing somethig less complicated. Personally I thought DMC4 was a chore backtracking through all of Nero's missions, but I guess thats not important.

"Just from what has happened to me, the enemies will sometimes get stuck in the level; Dante will sometimes get stuck in the level; Dante can glitch through the level and die; and the Dreamrunner can glitch into a wall."

I didn't experinece any glitches. If you did you might have a fault copy, or a faulty console. Actually all the previous DMC games had glitches, none of which were patched, even in the DMC HD edition.

I haven't bothered continuing because it seems like you haven't actually played the game. You've said the game is easy, everyone I've spoken to has said the game is actually very difficult on the upper difficulties.

If you would like to prove that you are an expert player as you claim, then present videos of yourself getting SSS ranks, taking no damage on the DMD or Hell and Hell modes. At the moment all your giving me is opinions on why you don't like it, without proof I see no reason why I show trust those opinions.

I cannot talk about other gamers, but I know why I did not buy it, and the reasons are pretty mundane and not at all dramatic.

Now, DMC series has always been day 1 purchase for me. I simply already have an attachment to the characters and story of the original titles, and I really wanted to continue to follow them. Yes, classic DMC is campy and wacky, but it is endearing to me, and of course I loved the gameplay. When I buy a DMC game, I expect some things to be in place, and the most important one is the main character, especially his personality. The reboot just did not have that pull to lure me in to purchase it.

Now, if other games like Ni no Kuni, Revengeance and GoW were not coming out roughly at the same time, I might have picked it up out of curiosity to see if the game is good as a game separate from DMC canon, as a standalone spin-off. But 60$ is a lot of money, and there is only so much time. Ni no Kuni won out.

I believe Dmc is a good game, and I am happy for all the people who bought it and are enjoying it, and I do not feel any anger towards anyone. I have no Nerd-rage against the game, it just simply was not (and is not) on my priority purchase radar. No more, no less.

I do find MCVs attitude insulting though. What I read them saying is: “How dare you unwashed gamers make your own decisions on what to buy! Obey the media!”

That really makes me even LESS likely to buy the game. I hate it when review sites think that I am a brainless moron who needs to be told what I am allowed to buy.

Before continuing on… you accuse me of not playing the game because “I find it hard and so do my friends” when one of the BIGGEST complaints of the game is that it is too easy?  And then, even when I never claimed to be a “pro”, you accuse me of doing so and the demand that I buy expensive equipment to record myself accomplishing insane tasks?  Yeah, okay buddy.  Are you sure it’s not that you can’t refute my points rather than an actual suspicion that I haven’t played the game?  Also, your hypocrisy is hilarious.  I’m not to be trusted without showing evidence, but all the stuff you say to refute me without evidence is okay because obviously I haven’t played the game while you have?  Really?  That’s your best excuse?

It’s a pretty common complaint for many as well as myself, so I guess you are just lucky.  However, the point still stands that it does happen to many, and again, there was absolutely no reason they couldn’t have added one in (There is even reference to a manual lock in the code… so it’s like they were going to add it in and then didn’t for whatever reason).  You can’t pick your target, you can’t stay locked on, and the R1 lock also showed health (which Ninja Theory never came up with a replacement for,  so it’s impossible to know how much health an enemy has left).  Obviously this doesn’t matter to you. 

But they don’t implement them well. 

The whip is a poor man’s Devil Bringer.  You can’t bust any enemies(which was not only visually appealing, but also factored into gameplay very heavily), you can only give them a little kick.  You can’t hold any enemies and use them as a shield or as a punching bag… you can only pull them to you.  The Devil Trigger makes no changes to how the whip works, unlike DT did for Nero’s Devil Bringer.  You can’t even counter boss enemies and regular enemies with the right timing (leading into yet another unique set of visually pleasing animations and mechanics).  So they took a good concept with quite a bit of depth and made a very basic copy with none of the depth.  All you can do is pull yourself to demons, pull demons towards you, kick them, and punch them into the air.  Oh, and it’s extremely OP.  So it’s gamebreaking and has no depth… excellent.

Dante’s dodges are a poor replacement for Trickster.  Demon Dodge is so damn broken it isn’t even funny (Ninja Theory released a patch completely nerfing Demon Dodge and it is still OP).  Demon Dodge and Devil Trigger basically guaruntees an SSS rank.  Angel Dodge is nice, but would work a lot better with a manual lock.  Devil May Cry 3’s trickster had more meat to it and even Devil May Cry 4’s trickster had more to it than that.

The removal of Royal Guard not only removed an entire way to play Devil May Cry, but also removed several mechanics.

I noticed you said nothing about the fact that Gunslinger basically has no replacement.  Ebony and Ivory may as well be BB guns with how much damage they do and how effective they are (unlike Devil May Cry 1, 2, and 3 where they actually were a viable way to kill enemies and even Devil May Cry 4 where they still had stopping power and could kill an enemy).  Revenant is middle of the road but lacks anything to make it unique (it has 3 moves) and give you crap style points since it obliterates enemies too fast.  And Kablooey?  It’s as overpowered as the Demon Dodge.  You can spam the regular shot 6 times and then explode them all at once for instant ownage.  I’ve heard of some people talk about absolutely owning some of the bosses with this one technique.  So Ebony and Ivory are useless for the most part; Revanent is merely for crowd control (oh sure, you can kill enemies… but say goodbye to your style score since it give you jack all points for it); and Kablooey is way OP.  Balance and decent movesets?  What are those?

While we’re at it, let’s talk about Devil Trigger.  Sure, it’s utterly useless to begin with but at the end?  If you use it even semi-competently, it’s a gamebreaker.  At 100%, the Devil Trigger will heal as many as 10 full health section; launch all enemies up into the air, leaving them helpless; slows down time so that any bosses or enemies still attacking will be sitting ducks and easily countered; shows off hidden grapple points on bosses, allowing you to own the hell out of them; drastically increases damage outputs; and drastically increases the amount of style points you get.  Golly Ninja Theory, why not just give me a “Press to win” button?  But more than that… Ninja Theory managed to make the DT extremely boring.  There are no weapon specific enhancements.  There are no special moves.  There are not special amulets to alter stats.  Nothing.

So let’s review:  All the mechanics for Royal Guard are gone.  Most of the mechanics for Nero’s Devil Bringer are gone.  Most of the mechanics for Gunslinger are gone and the moveset is the smallest it has ever been.  Trickster got replaced by laughably unbalanced dodges.  The DT is an absolute game breaker if even used semi-competently but had all interesting mechanics removed.  We’ve got fewer weapons than Devil May Cry 3 and 4.  We’ve got fewer moves than Devil May Cry 3 and 4.  Hell, I can go on all day about stuff like Bosses having a hell of a lot fewer moves, regular enemies having a hell of a lot fewer moves, etc.

Yes, but quite a few cutscenes aren’t skippable.  Probably 10 times as many as found in previous DMC games.  Are you sure it isn’t you that hasn’t played the game?

Yes, but again, a lot of people including myself DO have a problem with being forced to fight with certain weapons ALL THE DAMN TIME.  By the time you get to DMD, it feels like every other fight is full of these color coded enemies.  We’ve already got a limited moveset, why are we being limited even further?  It’s fine to like it, but a lot of people don’t.  And yes, there are sometimes more on screen enemies than in DMC 4:  Doesn’t matter if I’m frustrated with the enemies due to being forced to fight with specific weapons or if they are just plain annoying (aka any flying enemy).

Yes, platforming is better.  What I said was that after 3 or 4 times these sections are rather boring and become more and more unbearable with each play through.

I can link you to over 20 glitch videos on youtube right now.  It’s not my copy… you’ve just gotten damn lucky.  So just ask, and I’ll make a mile long post with all the links to the glitches found.

It’s fine to like it, but all of my previous criticisms and new criticisms stand.  DmC: Devil may Cry is a technically flawed game with horrible balancing, extremely easy difficultly, shallow gameplay compared the genre greats (Devil May Cry 3 and 4, Bayonetta, and Ninja Gaiden 2), and restrictive gameplay at times.  But I guess since I didn’t buy the expensive equipment and accomplish the asinine task you asked me to, my opinion is invalid even though I never claimed to be a “pro” and by that logic, your opinion is invalid as well. 

I've had people approach me online and tell me that I'm not a DMC 'fan' if I choose to support this game. They give me that exact reason. I know your not doing that.

But these are the words of Hideki Kamiya creator of the series: http://thesilentchief.com/2010/09/16/hideki-kamiya-responds-to-ninja-theorys-dmc/

"Hello all foreign fans. Recently I got lots of comments like “Dante has changed”, and someone said I was not too fond of newest Dante. But it’s not true.”Dante has changed”…that’s right. But from my point of view Dante has changed every time the sequel came out, and he was always different from whom I created first. So why don’t you wait and see how their new trial will be same as usual…? (sorry about my poor English )"

I started playing this series since the first game; and in that game Dante was not camp or wacky. He was just Dante, he wasn't anime, he wasn't camp, he didn't surf on missiles, he didn't go over the top with any camp behaviour.

That was my problem really, Team Little Devils never made any sequels to the orginal Devil May Cry game. Capcom switched to internal developers who never worked on the original. Thats why DMC2 wasn't that good. DMC3 was much better. But something changed, Dante was not the same, the story didn't make sense in conjunction with the first game. But maybe it was okay, the gameplay was really good, maybe Capcom was going somewhere with this.

...And then DMC4 came out, and Dante was ridulously camp, he didn't look anything like DMC1 Dante, he had a broad build, he had westernised facial features; smaller eyes, relaxed hair, huge forears, facial stubble, and red cowboy boots (eww). To me, it was like who the hell is this guy. Why is he acting like that, why does he sound so camp, why is the game feel like a teen anime. I mean sure create a love story, but why does the girl always have to be too pathetic to do anything. Why have Lady and Trish been relagated to Playboy fanservice.

I apprecaite some fans wanted DMC4 to continue and I apprecaite what you've said, but I'm just trying to say how it looks from the other side of the pond. There were some people, like me who think there was something wrong with this series long before NInja Theory were involved. That problem was when Capcom decided to make sequels without any input from Hideki Kamiya and Team Little Devils.

You forgot the piss poor camera that comes along with no manual target.  I've fallen off of platforms, got hit by unseen ground bombs, and got hit from behind, all because of how the camera moves.

Actually, Kamiya's inspiration for Dante was the main character of Cobra, a manga that was later adapted to anime...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_%28Devil_May_Cry%29

If you think that anime is only limited to "over the top" or "wacky" stuff, you're completely wrong... You can find all sorts of stories within the medium, and certainly any kind of story that appears in a Japanese-developed game. They come from the same culture after all.

"It’s a pretty common complaint for many as well as myself"

I don't care what you do so say. I personally don't have to trust anything you say about your experise with the game unless you show proof. You have no say in what I choose to beleive or not. Like I said I've seen the upper difficulties are extemely difficult, the only people I've seen say its 'easy' are those who want to try and push their own agenda of the game. If your not happy with my opinon thats not my problem. I'm not forcing anyone to accept it.

"It’s fine to like it"

Your saying its fine to like it, but your saying its not fine to consider the game better than DMC3, DMC4, Bayonetta or NInja Gaiden 3. I accept thats your opinion, which is why I've put 'I think' under a lot of my points. I know why I think the game is better or worst in some respects, but I know not everyone has to feel the same way. However I provide explainations for that, you don't have to accept my explainations, but you have to accept that individuals are entilted to their opinions despite your affection for Nero, Kyrie and Ninja Gaiden 3.

"I can link you to over 20 glitch videos on youtube right now.  It’s not my copy… you’ve just gotten damn lucky."

Like I said, I didn't encounter any glitches, if you did then thats unfortunate. I accept a lot of games have glitches, even the best ones; Assassin's Creed 3, Skyrim, Dark Souls, etc. DmC has nothing as bad as those games, where the glitches did affect my enjoyment of the game. Not to mention all the previous DMC games have glitches, yet none of those affected my enjoyment of the game, even DMC1 where the glitches were still not corrected for the HD rerelease. But I suppose its not okay to question DMC4's glitches.

" You can’t pick your target, you can’t stay locked on"

This is why I'm not sure if you've even played the game. You pick your traget by holding the direction of the enemy you want to attack, the lock on won't break as long as you don't let go, in the same way the lock won't break with previous DMC games... or does it. I recall the lock on in previous games would reset when the enemy would leave your field of view, for example the chess set on Mission 18 of DMC3.

Again, here are my points on the new lock on. The point of removing that type of lock was so Dante had free flow movement at all times. It also means Dante isn't restricted in a single enemy proximity. For example one of the things that was cumbersome in the previous games was how you can only evade when holding down the R1 lock button. That create problems when your facing groups of enemies becasuse Dante's evasion movement are restricted by the proximity of the enemy he is locked onto.

The point of this new locking system was to allow free flow movement at all times, no slow down strafing, no restricted movement, evasion alavailble at all times, more fluid transition between enemies rather than mediating between R1 and L3 button presses.

"The removal of Royal Guard not only removed an entire way to play Devil May Cry, but also removed several mechanics."

Again. The Royal Guard style hasn't been removed, the mechanics have been reworked. The problem with the Royal Guard style in previous games is that every Royal Guard move restricts you to one point in space. The most important function of Royal Guard is that if you Parry at the the right time Dante deflects the attack back at the enemy. DmC has reworked that mechanic into the game so you can Parry without having to change styles. The Parry manouver can be used at all times, in the middle of combos, with any weapon. The previous style system would force you to switch styles if you wanted to Parry an enemy. This game integrates most of the style mehcanics, and Nero's mechanics into the system. And most importantly Dante retains full mobility when he Parrys. But yeah thats not offerring more depth or gameplay options at all.

Again, the Block and Charge from Royal Guard has been reworked into the Demon Evade. DMC3/4 charges the Royal Guard style by forcing you to take enemy attacks with the right timing. In this game they've reworked that you don't have to take damage from an enemy to be able to charge your weapons. In this case you have to dodge the enemy at the right time to be able to charge you Demon weapon.

"Dante’s dodges are a poor replacement for Trickster.  Demon Dodge is so damn broken it isn’t even funny (Ninja Theory released a patch completely nerfing Demon Dodge and it is still OP).  Demon Dodge and Devil Trigger basically guaruntees an SSS rank."

DMC1-4 each have ways of achieving SSS ranks or S ranks very quickly. There are several videos on Youtube showing SSS ranks within 10 sections on DMC4. Maybe a few on DMC3 as well. But I'm guessing its okay for those games to have those things. And its your opinion those moves are overpowered, not mine.

"Devil May Cry 3’s trickster had more meat to it and even Devil May Cry 4’s trickster had more to it than that."

DMC3 and 4 had the Trickster style for dodging and mobility. Those manouvers were useful because in previous games you had to hold R1 to be able to dodge an enemy. In DmC there is no need for some of those moves because their is a dedicated dodge button. That also means in DMC3 and 4 there were two ways of dodging an enemy. But I guess thats okay isn't it, but its not okay for DmC to have two dodge buttons. And the Air Trick manouver from DMC3/4 were made redudant when they introducted the Angel/Demon whips. You don't need different moves that duplicate the same effect. In the case of Air Trick the distance Dante would gain would be very small compared to the distance he can cover with the Angel/Demon whips.

Its not necessarily about having more moves. Its about they've reworked the mechanics of the games so that those moves offer you deeper combat options as opposed to previous games. I accept you don't feel that way, but I do, and theres nothing you can do about it.

The DT mode is based on the Quicksilver style from DMC3, which was omitted from DMC4. But I guess we can't say anything against DMC4 right? Either way DT mode works similar to previous games. And actually if the enemies fall back to ground before you've finished them off they stiil move at full speed and can damage Dante, if you didn't notice that its not my problem.

One of the things I have actually complained about is how the guns need to have more influence in combat. That being said with all the combat options they've integrated into the game its possible their wasn't enough RAM for more moves. In the same way DMC3 was restricted by the PS2 RAM limitations.

"The whip is a poor man’s Devil Bringer.  You can’t bust any enemies"

The Angel/Demon whips are different from the Devil Bringer, which was a Nero specific weapon. There are somethings the Devil Bringer can't do that Dantes whips can do. I don't count that against Nero, their different weapons they're not meant to be exactly the same. Actually the Demon whip features two types of kicks. The whips seem to have better accuracy and distance to Nero's arm which missed quite a lot if the enemy was far away. But I guess thats not important. The Angel whip has an Uppercut and Leap.

And DmC has a lot more mobility and moves available in the air. Things like Air Dodge or combo manouvers in the air for me add more options than the previous games. Its not just about how many moves the games have, its how those mechanics are integrated to faciliate further gameplay options. DMC3/4s styles didn't integrate those options, it forced you to used those options seperate from each other. DmC has about the same moves than the other games but it also integrates those options into one system unlike previous games. Yes I think their should be more moves in their like Bayonetta, and I did feel Bayonetta was a lot better in some respects.

If YOU didn't feel that way, thats fair enough, but I did, and thats nothing to do with you. You don't like it not my problem, move on with your life with FF13, DMC4 and Ninja Gaiden 3.