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Forums - Sales - Global HW & SW Up! 19th January

maximrace said:
Soleron said:

maximrace said:
I think it's easy to understand. There is a marketshift towards apps.

Oh really? Show me the big app game company's balance sheets.

Look at games like fruit ninja, temple run and angry birds. They are far more profitable than a 64€ core game that sells below 1m

Most core gamers have the hdtwins and are waiting for the nextgen.

Why wait? Aren't all the games they like out now? Why will next gen's games suddenly be attractive if current ones are not?

Because next gen games will be different. More will be able to be done resulting in better games that core gamers really need to play so they buy the next consoles.

The casual gamer who bought the wii, psp or ds isn't interested in gaming anymore because they have a tablet/ smartphone to game on.

Are they spending the same amount of money on it? What you're actually seeing is $60 games no longer being worth it so people will take what they can get for 99c or free. That doesn't amount to actually not wanting console games, it means the ones they do want don't exist. And when they DO exist (CoD, Minecraft, Animal Crossing 3DS) suddenly we see lots of sales out of nowhere.

It's market apathy, not market shift.

Not true, if they really wanted that game they would have bought a vita to play ac or cod. This didn't happen.

But casuals aren't that important for a core gaming console.

Kinect didn't sell 20m then?

Yes it did but 360 would have sold 50m with kinect, that's a good number for a core gaming machine. And a cellphone device can't play games like kinect. Kinect is unique thus making people want it.

So the nextbox/ ps 4 should do allright if they are aimed a tthe core market.

wasn't the Wii U aimed at the core market?

Yes but there is name confusion. Most people aren't really that well informed like gameforummembers. So most people don't want to buy it because it's just the succesor of a casual games console





1. I said show me the balance sheets. How do you know if they're profitable or not?

2. I said how will they suddenly be attractive? You think better graphics will make people buy installments to franchises that are currently not selling well? If PS4720 have an install base of 5m and PS360 have an install base of 140m which platforms do you think CoD 2013 and 2014 will launch for? And which one will people buy? I'm telling you now: they'll buy the PS360 CoD far more. Unspecified "More that will able to be done" doesn't overcome $500 hurdles.

3. They bought CoD, the experience, which happens to be on 360 and PS3. CoD the brand is not the same as CoD the experience. Casuals don't just buy what's put in front of them with CoD written on it. Vita is proof enough that people don't buy a console for quality hardware, media features or the OS.

4. If uniqueness makes people want something why did Virtual Boy not sell? What about all the Dreamcast exclusive games? No, people buy the experiences they want, and right now consoles don't offer enough of them and there's no roadmap to fix this other than more sequels to poorly selling games and more expensive hardware and software.

5. You think name confusion is why Wii U is not selling? Why not the obvious explanation - no games that people want. Secondly, if no one buys game consoles because of casual image, how did Wii and DS become so successful?

--

Basic thesis

1. There is no ground being lost to mobile
2. People ONLY buy consoles to get to experiences
3. Sometimes games no longer provide that experience and die. Other games can then pick it up.



Around the Network

Yamcha(3DS) > Cell (PS3, lol) > Goku (360) > Frieza (WiiU) > a Saibaman (Wii) > Kuririn (PSP) > a fricken farmer boy (DS) > Vi-ge-ta



Ongoing bet with think-man: He wins if MH4 releases in any shape or form on PSV in 2013, I win if it doesn't.

Scisca said:
Sad.

People were saying Wii U will overtake Vita in a matter of weeks after the launch. We may have to wait for quite some time for that to happen...

I'm not worried about Wii U though... not just yet. Nintendo has interesting games coming so the console will be doing better in Q3-4. They have to resist the urge of making it a Mario-box by releasing other games, I'm really sick of even hearing about more Mario games being released every 3 months! This would kill all other games on Wii U and 3rd party games especially. They have to get their crowd used to playing different games, so they have to push Pikmin 3, Bayo 2, X, Metroid, Zelda and some good 3rd party games asap and finally give Mario a break! We'll get MK and SSB and that should be all Mario games for quite some time.

Vita... Is in a worse spot, but it can grow as well. I think it will get over Wii U in weekly sales quite soon for a few weeks when Japan-oriented games get released (there are a few coming). After all, Famitsu said it's the most desired console in Japan. They just have to start taking care of the Japanese market more and cut the price. It's really strange that a handheld sells best in Europe.


Wii U is selling bad, but it's not a problem. The sales are appropriate - there are no games and I can't see a single reason somebody would want to buy it. A 10th Mario released in a year's time really isn't much of a reason. Situation should improve once we get some software though.
Vita has a bigger problem, since there are many awesome games on it, it had the best launch year in history when it comes to SF and it still tanks. This is a problem, I just hope a price-cut and a few new games can solve the problem.


I wonder what pricing policy will Nintendo have for Wii U. Are they going to follow the 3DS and cut the price this year, which may improve sales but will hurt every single future console they release? Can you imagine being an early adopter after something like that? Or will they try to go Vita's way and keep the price longer (probably until early 2014) hoping for software to convince people to buy the console?

Interesting point. But I disagree in 2 aspects.

First, Wii U is in bad shape. There's enough stock at retailers, not supply constrained, so 40k a week is beyond what I call "bad shape". One of the worst enemies for Vita was the bad press because its awuful sales. Same with 3DS. And Wii U will have the same. Once this quarter earnings at the end of the month happen and bad sales go public and cuts their forecast the first wave of bad press articles will come. The second wave will come at the end of the fiscal year when they announce that Wii U not even matched the previously cut forecast.

Second, Wii U is not in a position to wait for Q3-Q4 to start to sell better. They need to improve the userbase numbers in order to make the holiday lineup to sell at least decently, just like happened with 3DS. If they don't manage to solve this problem, big games will come and nothing will change.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


Speaking of which, whens the quarterly report for Q3 Nintendo?



Ongoing bet with think-man: He wins if MH4 releases in any shape or form on PSV in 2013, I win if it doesn't.

Yakuzaice said:

I believe the Wii U sales this week are lower than any week of sales for the PS3 and 360, and the Wii did not dip this low until September of last year.  If you just look at USA and EU numbers it seems to be lower than any week ever for the Wii/PS3/360.

You are correct.

Lowest 360 week: 61,215 March 11 2006
Lowest PS3 week: 49,869 February 24 2007 (before EU launch)
58,643 June 23 2007 (after EU launch)


Basically last weeks WiiU numbers were already lower than these.
This week is also the worst Wii week btw.



Around the Network

Everything doing good, especially the Vita and the WiiU.

DmC did on PS3 slightly better than DMC4 in its FW, while the 360 version dropped by almost 50%. Not sure what's the reason for this. Any thoughts?



Game of the year 2017 so far:

5. Resident Evil VII
4. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
3. Uncharted: The Lost Legacy
2. Horizon Zero Dawn
1. Super Mario Odyssey

Chandler said:
Speaking of which, whens the quarterly report for Q3 Nintendo?

I'm guessing the 31st.  Sony's are due Feb 7th and Nintendo usually releases a week or two before Sony.



lol @ wiiU...u gotta release some awesome new ip's meng.



Soleron said:

maximrace said:
I think it's easy to understand. There is a marketshift towards apps.

Oh really? Show me the big app game company's balance sheets.

Most core gamers have the hdtwins and are waiting for the nextgen.

Why wait? Aren't all the games they like out now? Why will next gen's games suddenly be attractive if current ones are not?

The casual gamer who bought the wii, psp or ds isn't interested in gaming anymore because they have a tablet/ smartphone to game on.

Are they spending the same amount of money on it? What you're actually seeing is $60 games no longer being worth it so people will take what they can get for 99c or free. That doesn't amount to actually not wanting console games, it means the ones they do want don't exist. And when they DO exist (CoD, Minecraft, Animal Crossing 3DS) suddenly we see lots of sales out of nowhere.

It's market apathy, not market shift.

But casuals aren't that important for a core gaming console.

Kinect didn't sell 20m then?

So the nextbox/ ps 4 should do allright if they are aimed a tthe core market.

wasn't the Wii U aimed at the core market?




Companies like Zynga show how profitable the casual social/tablet/phone market can be, they whizzed past EA in profits and revenue in about four years. CSR Racing on iTunes is making the developer about 12.000.000$ every month,  GREE company had over 500.000.000$ in profits in 2012, DeNA reported over 700.000.000$ profits for 2012, there are many examples such as this.

The part about market apathy, I can agree with, the diverging market is confusing to both consumer and developer and people are fond of grabbing the cheapest deals (but that's nothing new).

Kinect sold 20 million but is completely irrelevant in gaming today, much like Wii-mote, its practical application is all but worthless and it never took off at all where it could have actually made an inudstry impact; the PC. The casual crowd isn't important for a core console, that's in the very nature of the console itself. If you don't cater to casuals then casuals won't matter, that's pretty much a given.

The Wii U is aimed at both the casual and core market, which will likely be it's great undoing, this is the core of the problem that Nintendo faces. The core market is largely satisfied on the older HD consoles and the lack of good 3rd party support is really hurting Nintendo and, meanwhile, the casuals have fled to social/tablet/phone gaming and will likely stay there (its not merely coincidence that the Wii's great fall and the massive rise of phones and tablets and social games happened at the same time).

Casual oriented consoles will not succeed in the current market atmosphere, the tablets and phones will eat them alive. Next on the menu are handheld consoles dedicated to gaming, these devices will meet their end at the hands of this very same market segment within a relatively short period of time.

If MS and Sony actively pursue casual gamers with their next consoles, or, even worse, go for both casual and core gamers, they will fall really hard on their ass and lose a lot of momentum from this generation, something neither can afford if; A: Sony want to stay in business with their gaming section and, B: MS want to conquer the living room as an entertainment arena.



runqvist said:
FaintZ said:
runqvist said:
FaintZ said:
runqvist said:
360 selling more than Wii+Wii U combined, this is awesome. :D Wii U selling less than 40k, gotta love those numbers.


Why? Shouldn´t we hope that WiiU and Vita pick up some steam?


Why on earth should I hope that?

Because gamers should hope that gaming devices succeed?

That is weird. If Wii U fails, it will open a bigger market to the company of my preference. Of course I am happy to see Wii U doing badly.

Why are you happy that the WiiU is selling so bad?