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Forums - Website Topics - There are too many trolls

 

Are there?

Yes 157 82.20%
 
No 34 17.80%
 
Total:191
Mazty on 17 December 2012
Viper1 said:
Mazty said:
Viper1 said:
Mazty said:

Well shitting on other people is clearly trolling as it shouldn't have any truth to it. But what happens when it does have truth to it? Ban someone because the truth hurts? It's a very thin line to tread between trolling and pandering to the community as a whole. I've seen it first hand on IGN where people on mass argue utter bullshit and the mods ban people for arguing back. Sure, I know this isn't IGN, but the value of a post should be determined by if it is a legitimate, relevant point and if it is polite. If it is, then it should stay. 

At that point, it's not about content but tone and intention.   You can provide negative information and remain tactful and respectful of others.  But too many prefer to combine their 'truthful information' with assertive or even aggressive tones which change the dynamics of the debate from constrctuve to desctructive.

You have to imagine a real spoken conversation.  Would that person talk to someone else in that same tone and expect to actually have a meaningful dialog with them?  No.  It's at that point that we need to realize it's gone beyond simply providing truthful information.


Ah the issue with that though is what is assertive or aggressive is entirely subjective. As long as the person remains polite and on topic, then there should not be an issue. When I state an argument, I cut the crap and get straight to the point, which can be misinterpreted by a lot of people as being rude, when in fact I'm just being concise. 
More often then not, the people who become aggressive are the ones whose point is being contended, and yet they are the ones rarely punished as they can be in the majority. This is just a general rule of forums then a specific one to do with this one, but it seems that a lot of moderation is done with the intention of keeping the masses happy rather then letting valid & polite points be made if they go against the general gist of a thread. 

Here's an example and the reason I was banned from IGN. A thread had been made about the Wii U hardware and how what it was alledged to be didn't make sense when some tests were done. I then said that we may never know the actual specs of the Wii U as it may be that to release such specs may be detrimental for Nintendo, hence the silence. Well that kicked off a shit storm of "specs never sell" which is a point that no one could actuallly back-up with any sort of viable proof but were just speculating on why people bought consoles. Reminding these people that treating speculation as fact is a fallacy apparently constitues baiting and trolling. Go figure. The real reason is that everyone disagreed with me in the thread yet not a single one could actually back their claims up, so to appease the masses, I was given the boot. This is why I strongly advocate freedom of speech in forums otherwise it will cause social issues for these guys whose poorly constructed points are given the all clear and anyone who disagrees is thrown out. 

Most moderating is subjective anyway.  That's why you need moderators that are keenly aware of the dynamics of dialog.  What is intended to be factual and add to the dialog and what is posted solely for personal amusement.

With regards to your situation, I can't speak on it because I didn't see it.   If you are known for having a tone that lacks tact, it's easy to see why many would quickly pounce on your for the negative statement rather than debate you on the merits of the statement itself.   I always tell people that it is OK to be contrarian so long as you do so with tact.  Otherwise you will not engage in the dialog you are actually seeking.   It's the fault of both parties (I hope you don't find it offense that I say as such) but that's the unfrotunate nature of dialog...especially in a fourm.

With my own anecdotal experience, I run a forum of 30,000 members and I haven't had to ban an active member in almost 2 years.  This is because I and the mod team have worked hard to get our members to understand how to engage in debate with each other with civility and respect.   I oversaw the merger of our original Nintendo based forum with a large Sony based forum.   It's one thing to start off with a multiplatform forum but it's another to merge 2 platforms together.   It took a while but eventually they learned to enjoy good debate more than the ugly negativity that usually accompanies dialog between fans of different platforms.  

As for a complete freedom of speech, that doesn't work either.   You eventually run off the minority and the site becomes dominant in one fan base and then gets infested with trolls as they find an open target with no rules to prevent them from running amok.

Slighty off topic but what is your ruling on fallacious arguments? It sounds petty but I can't see the point in allowing arguments that are inherently wrong to be kept going, yet this is something no forum I have come across actually deals with. 



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Viper1 on 17 December 2012
Mazty said:

Slighty off topic but what is your ruling on fallacious arguments? It sounds petty but I can't see the point in allowing arguments that are inherently wrong to be kept going, yet this is something no forum I have come across actually deals with. 

If it's easily proven to be alse (and it's the actual thread topic) a mod should post (or quote) the factual information and close the thread.

If there is some gray area, has some subjectivity, or is difficult to prove, then no harm in alowing it to continue so long as it stays civil.

If it's off topic to a thread, I like to separate those posts into their own thread.   I don't know what moderating tools are available here since its all proprietary but many forums are vBulletin, phpBB, Invision or other specialty software based which allows a mod to select specific posts in a thread and extract them as their own separate thread.  Or merge threads if a similar topic is being disucssed.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Kantor on 17 December 2012
Lastgengamer said:
^Hmm if a post seems like its out of line, then maybe two or three moderators could come to a decision together on what to do about it, by voting on it perhaps?

We already do that, but with everyone who is online on AIM, generally closer to 4-5 of us.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

man-bear-pig on 17 December 2012
Kantor said:
Lastgengamer said:
^Hmm if a post seems like its out of line, then maybe two or three moderators could come to a decision together on what to do about it, by voting on it perhaps?

We already do that, but with everyone who is online on AIM, generally closer to 4-5 of us.


How does the moderation system work exactly? I reported a troll who blatantly violated the rules earlier, and as far as I can see nothing was done. What gives?



My prediction threads:

Wii U will sell under 40m units (made on 14th September 2012)

PS Vita will sell under 20m units (made on 30th September 2012)

Wii U will sell under 7m in 2013 - I was right

Halo 4 first 9 weeks sales prediction

PS4 to be down YOY in 2015

Kantor on 17 December 2012
man-bear-pig said:
Kantor said:
Lastgengamer said:
^Hmm if a post seems like its out of line, then maybe two or three moderators could come to a decision together on what to do about it, by voting on it perhaps?

We already do that, but with everyone who is online on AIM, generally closer to 4-5 of us.


How does the moderation system work exactly? I reported a troll who blatantly violated the rules earlier, and as far as I can see nothing was done. What gives?

He was moderated, but the moderator in question forgot to edit the post and say so. It happens occasionally when the mod forgets, but we are trying to minimise that.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

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man-bear-pig on 17 December 2012
spurgeonryan said:
I say we set up a paypal fond to pay our moderator's. If ioi wont do it then we should. They have become a well oiled machine with adumbrating (I had to leave that, my kindles word for axumblade..bwahaha) and kantor in charge. If we like a smooth running site we should pay for it. Donations only though. Set it up Kantor!


Didn't Ninalove already set that up?



My prediction threads:

Wii U will sell under 40m units (made on 14th September 2012)

PS Vita will sell under 20m units (made on 30th September 2012)

Wii U will sell under 7m in 2013 - I was right

Halo 4 first 9 weeks sales prediction

PS4 to be down YOY in 2015

sethnintendo on 17 December 2012

People donating to this site? I'd rather donate to the Animal Crossing Community website. I respect this site a lot and I enjoy being apart of it but it seems like this site is falling apart. The split with gamewise wasn't a smart decision in my book. It will never compete with Gamefaqs. When they announced gamewise and the end to an updated game database on VGC is when I saw the beginning of the end of this site. They need to get back to the basics quick because I don't see gamewise doing shit.



fordy on 17 December 2012
Farsala said:
To me its the hypocrites. I mainly go by facts whether its MS,Sony or Nintendo. Some people tout Vgchartz as facts when their is evidence against it. "Equal posters" tend to actually be very biased. I think these people should defend anything that is fact and all that is not fact, but that is my opinion on this. I am going to have to take a break before I do break.


I've had some incidents where the very same people who whinged when their choice of console was hacked found it very amusing when the competitors for that same console are hacked. One who even went on a big tirade, when the PS3 was hacked, about how piracy was wrong, openly advocated to someone on a private message to a new user that they should get a Wii because it's easy to download games for it and play them for free...

Lots of double standards with a lot of people here.



Kenology on 17 December 2012
happydolphin said:

I'm sad to say guys, but it looks like the threads are getting submerged with trolling and fanboyism and I've been finding it very difficult to actual have meaningful debate in the threads of late.

Is there a solution to this, mod team? Users?

I'm pretty discouraged.

The Nintendo forum has been really bogged down with troll threads lately.  I know the Wii U just released but it's getting really bad.  Mr.Khan had to lock an obvious bait thread created by WindyCityHeat today. 

VGC is turning into N4G and it really needs to stop or I won't be participating on these boards anymore.



slowmo on 18 December 2012
Kenology said:
happydolphin said:

I'm sad to say guys, but it looks like the threads are getting submerged with trolling and fanboyism and I've been finding it very difficult to actual have meaningful debate in the threads of late.

Is there a solution to this, mod team? Users?

I'm pretty discouraged.

The Nintendo forum has been really bogged down with troll threads lately.  I know the Wii U just released but it's getting really bad.  Mr.Khan had to lock an obvious bait thread created by WindyCityHeat today. 

VGC is turning into N4G and it really needs to stop or I won't be participating on these boards anymore.


The same thing happened on the 360 boards with Kinect threads, it effectively drove most of the fanbase who just wanted reasonable discussion away from the site.  Many of us complained to the mods at the time but they just didn't give a toss and now you're left with a void where the 360 fanbase used to be on the site.  The new mod team seem a lot more balanced though so hopefully they'll stay on top of things and stop the trolling.  I really don't get the criticism of the Wii U as it's not until we have post xmas adjustments and the full shipments figures that we can make any sort of reasonable analysis on it's performance.  The same has to be said with the Vita as we all know it's unlikely this site will have got all the numbers spot on and there will be big adjustements as usual in January.